Dietmar

@reboot12 Yepp, via Windbg I caught the reason for Bsod for XP on the HP Omen Dietmar Microsoft (R) Windows Debugger Version 6.3.9600.17200 X86 Copyright (c) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Using NET for debugging Opened WinSock 2.0 Waiting to reconnect... Connected to target 192.168.2.103 on port 50000 on local IP 192.168.2.101. Connected to Windows XP 2600 x86 compatible target at (Thu Aug 1 12:23:40.487 2024 (UTC + 2:00)), ptr64 FALSE Kernel Debugger connection established. ************* Symbol Path validation summary ************** Response Time (ms) Location OK C:\Symbols ************* Symbol Path validation summary ************** Response Time (ms) Location OK C:\symbolssss Symbol search path is: C:\symbolssss Executable search path is: C:\Symbols *** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for ntkrpamp.exe - Windows XP Kernel Version 2600 MP (1 procs) Free x86 compatible Built by: 2600.xpsp_sp3_qfe.180912-0606 Machine Name: Kernel base = 0x804d7000 PsLoadedModuleList = 0x8055d720 System Uptime: not available ************* Symbol Path validation summary ************** Response Time (ms) Location OK E:\binaries.x86fre\Symbols ************* Symbol Path validation summary ************** Response Time (ms) Location OK C:\Symbols ************* Symbol Path validation summary ************** Response Time (ms) Location OK C:\symbolssss OK C:\symbols OK C:\symbolss OK C:\symbolsss OK E:\binaries.x86fre\Symbols Deferred https://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols Deferred srv* Break instruction exception - code 80000003 (first chance) *** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for halmacpi.dll - nt!DbgBreakPoint: 8052b718 cc int 3 kd> g SAFEBOOT: skipping device = Cdrom.SYS(SCSI CDROM Class) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = kbdhid.SYS(Keyboard Port) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = RDPCDD.SYS(Video Save) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = RasAcd.SYS(Streams Drivers) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = IPSec.SYS(PNP_TDI) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = Tcpip.SYS(PNP_TDI) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = NetBT.SYS(PNP_TDI) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = AFD.SYS(TDI) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = NetBIOS.SYS(NetBIOSGroup) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = Processor.SYS(Extended Base) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = WS2IFSL.SYS(Group) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = Rdbss.SYS(Network) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = MRxSmb.SYS(Network) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = Fips.SYS(Group) SAFEBOOT: skipping device = DumpDrv.SYS(Group) Process.Thread : 000000B8.000000BC (csrss.exe) is trying to create key: ObjectAttributes = BA20790C The caller should not rely on data written to the registry after shutdown... *** Fatal System Error: 0x000000b4 (0x89CD7C08,0x89ECB000,0x89D04000,0x00050000) Break instruction exception - code 80000003 (first chance) A fatal system error has occurred. Debugger entered on first try; Bugcheck callbacks have not been invoked. A fatal system error has occurred. Connected to Windows XP 2600 x86 compatible target at (Thu Aug 1 12:23:57.862 2024 (UTC + 2:00)), ptr64 FALSE Loading Kernel Symbols .......................................................... Loading User Symbols ............. ******************************************************************************* * * * Bugcheck Analysis * * * ******************************************************************************* Use !analyze -v to get detailed debugging information. BugCheck B4, {89cd7c08, 89ecb000, 89d04000, 50000} *** ERROR: Symbol file could not be found. Defaulted to export symbols for halmacpi.dll - Probably caused by : win32k.sys ( win32k!DrvDriverFailure+1af ) Followup: MachineOwner --------- nt!RtlpBreakWithStatusInstruction: 8052b724 cc int 3 4: kd> !analyze -v ******************************************************************************* * * * Bugcheck Analysis * * * ******************************************************************************* VIDEO_DRIVER_INIT_FAILURE (b4) The system was not able to go into graphics mode because no display drivers were able to start. This usually occurs if no video miniport drivers load successfully. Arguments: Arg1: 89cd7c08, Driver failure data. Arg2: 89ecb000, Graphics device list. Arg3: 89d04000, Graphics device list data. Arg4: 00050000, Possible cause of the bugcheck. Debugging Details: ------------------ DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: DRIVER_FAULT BUGCHECK_STR: 0xB4 PROCESS_NAME: csrss.exe ANALYSIS_VERSION: 6.3.9600.17237 (debuggers(dbg).140716-0327) x86fre LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 804f8e95 to 8052b724 STACK_TEXT: ba2077dc 804f8e95 00000003 ba207b38 00000000 nt!RtlpBreakWithStatusInstruction ba207828 804f9a80 00000003 ba207d24 bbdd15dc nt!KiBugCheckDebugBreak+0x19 ba207c08 804f9fcf 000000b4 89cd7c08 89ecb000 nt!KeBugCheck2+0x574 ba207c28 bf91cfa7 000000b4 89cd7c08 89ecb000 nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x1b ba207d30 ba207d64 0015fd98 bf8ab5af 00000001 win32k!DrvDriverFailure+0x1af WARNING: Frame IP not in any known module. Following frames may be wrong. ba207d48 bf8ab620 ba207d64 80541818 00050000 0xba207d64 ba207d50 80541818 00050000 00000060 00000064 win32k!NtUserInitialize+0x87 ba207d50 7eb3e514 00050000 00000060 00000064 nt!KiSystemServicePostCall 0015fd80 75b686df 75b68669 00050000 00000060 ntdll!KiFastSystemCallRet 0015fdb0 75b43472 00000000 00000000 0016274d winsrv!NtUserInitialize+0xc 0015fe20 75b4301b 0016272a 00162731 00000003 CSRSRV!CsrLoadServerDll+0x1a0 0015ff74 75b430f3 0000000a 001624f0 7eb3dc9e CSRSRV!CsrParseServerCommandLine+0x2d6 0015ff88 4a68115d 0000000a 001624f0 00000005 CSRSRV!CsrServerInitialization+0x95 0015ffa8 4a6818d7 0000000a 001624f0 0016251c csrss!main+0x4f 0015fff4 00000000 7ffdf000 000000c8 00000172 csrss!NtProcessStartup+0x1d2 STACK_COMMAND: kb FOLLOWUP_IP: win32k!DrvDriverFailure+1af bf91cfa7 90 nop SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 4 SYMBOL_NAME: win32k!DrvDriverFailure+1af FOLLOWUP_NAME: MachineOwner MODULE_NAME: win32k IMAGE_NAME: win32k.sys DEBUG_FLR_IMAGE_TIMESTAMP: 5c93004e IMAGE_VERSION: 5.1.2600.7684 FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0xB4_win32k!DrvDriverFailure+1af BUCKET_ID: 0xB4_win32k!DrvDriverFailure+1af ANALYSIS_SOURCE: KM FAILURE_ID_HASH_STRING: km:0xb4_win32k!drvdriverfailure+1af FAILURE_ID_HASH: {28d7d534-884c-fc26-c175-02817df2d217} Followup: MachineOwner --------- 4: kd> lm start end module name 4a680000 4a685000 csrss (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\csrss.pdb\8855DD251E2A4CAFB724F7C47579F15C1\csrss.pdb 629c0000 629c9000 LPK (deferred) 74d90000 74dfb000 USP10 (deferred) 75b40000 75b4b000 CSRSRV (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\csrsrv.pdb\B46DB8DE114A4FE7A8576174C647B4191\csrsrv.pdb 75b50000 75b60000 basesrv (deferred) 75b60000 75bab000 winsrv (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\winsrv.pdb\AD80116379FE4FFF946C536969FF14FF2\winsrv.pdb 77dd0000 77e6b000 ADVAPI32 (deferred) 77e70000 77f03000 RPCRT4 (deferred) 77f10000 77f5a000 GDI32 (deferred) 77fe0000 77ff1000 Secur32 (deferred) 7c800000 7c8f7000 KERNEL32 (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\kernel32.pdb\6E23380B2D034BD7B04DF09B354004052\kernel32.pdb 7e410000 7e4a1000 USER32 (deferred) 7eb30000 7ebe4000 ntdll (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\ntdll.pdb\08DE4D91BE654ACEB9F397576108EF3E2\ntdll.pdb 80100000 80140000 KDSTUB (deferred) 80220000 80230a80 pci (deferred) 804d7000 806e5000 nt (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\ntkrpamp.pdb\270E083F57714738A1895FE542CFB8DE1\ntkrpamp.pdb 806e5000 80705d80 hal (export symbols) halmacpi.dll 80706000 8072e000 kdcom (deferred) b9887000 b98a9a80 dump_ntoskrn8 (deferred) b98aa000 b98f3000 dump_storport (deferred) b994c000 b995f880 VIDEOPRT (deferred) b9960000 b9a38100 update (deferred) b9a39000 b9a5b700 ks (deferred) b9a84000 b9ab3c80 rdpdr (deferred) b9ab4000 b9adc000 HDAudBus (deferred) b9b3b000 b9b3d900 Dxapi (deferred) b9b98000 b9b9a400 Fs_Rec (deferred) b9bbc000 b9bd5e80 Mup (deferred) b9bd6000 b9c02a80 NDIS (deferred) b9c03000 b9c8fd00 Ntfs (deferred) b9c90000 b9cf7000 ksecd8 (deferred) b9d9a000 b9db0b80 KSecDD (deferred) b9db1000 b9dc2f00 sr (deferred) b9dc3000 b9de2b00 fltMgr (deferred) b9de3000 b9e2c000 storport (deferred) b9e2c000 b9e3d000 storahci (deferred) b9e3d000 b9e62700 dmio (deferred) b9e63000 b9e81880 ftdisk (deferred) b9ea6000 b9ed5000 ucx01000 (deferred) b9ed5000 b9f02500 ACPI (deferred) b9f03000 b9f25a80 ntoskrn8 (deferred) b9f26000 b9fa7000 wdf01000 (deferred) ba0a8000 ba0b6000 WDFLDR (deferred) ba0b8000 ba0c1180 isapnp (deferred) ba0c8000 ba0d2000 WppRecor (deferred) ba0e8000 ba0f2700 MountMgr (deferred) ba0f8000 ba103000 PartMgr (deferred) ba108000 ba114c80 VolSnap (deferred) ba118000 ba128000 disk (deferred) ba128000 ba134180 CLASSPNP (deferred) ba168000 ba174d00 i8042prt (deferred) ba178000 ba182000 HpqKbFiltr (deferred) ba188000 ba191f80 termdd (deferred) ba328000 ba32e780 usbstor (deferred) ba3a8000 ba3ae000 kbdclass (deferred) ba3b0000 ba3b5a00 mouclass (deferred) ba3e0000 ba3e5200 vga (deferred) ba3f0000 ba3f4b00 Msfs (deferred) ba400000 ba407980 Npfs (deferred) ba440000 ba444500 watchdog (deferred) ba4b8000 ba4bb000 BOOTVID (deferred) ba57c000 ba57e280 wmiacpi (deferred) ba59c000 ba59fc80 mssmbios (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\mssmbios.pdb\9940673F3B9A4BD682DF9D96A12A355C1\mssmbios.pdb ba5a8000 ba5a9500 USBD (deferred) ba5aa000 ba5ab100 WMILIB (deferred) ba5ac000 ba5ad700 dmload (deferred) ba5b2000 ba5b3100 swenum (deferred) ba5b8000 ba5b9080 Beep (deferred) ba73e000 ba73ed00 dxgthk (deferred) ba7e8000 ba7e8b80 Null (deferred) bf000000 bf011600 dxg (deferred) bf800000 bf9d3700 win32k (pdb symbols) c:\symbols\win32k.pdb\99E4871FDD004524A7E59748D80FAB972\win32k.pdb

@reboot12 I think yes, that it is an AMI Bios. It is labeled as Insyde Bios. I test some tools that I have, but no one can extract the whole Bios from the running compi. It is chipset Intel HM170 (mobile) Dietmar

@reboot12 Hi Gelip, do you know, how to enable all possible settings in Bios? I remember a tool, with which you can enable everything, that you want in Bios. I ask this, because via this way it may be possible, just to disable the faulty device for XP on the Omen laptop. Just now I think, the faulty device that is mentioned from lsass.exe, is the Nvidia GTX 960M, that I cant disable in Bios. XP may have problems with 2 different graphikcards at the same time Dietmar PS: It has chipset Intel HM170 and the Bios has a size of 800000h.

Hi, I just get this nice HP Omen laptop from summer 2016, HP OMEN 15-ax009ng. Quality is not bad, but for example the Lenovo's W550s quality is better. It has an Intel Core i7-6700HQ cpu with Skylake chipset Intel HM170 https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/90584/mobile-intel-hm170-chipset/specifications.html 16GB ram. Until now, It runs win10 bit64. There, all works. The graphikcard is an nVidia GeForce GTX 960M. Lan is Realtek 8168 and the sound is also from Realtek. No Whitelist as far as I know. For all this devices exist drivers for XP SP3. But it will be hard work. No install of XP is possible, even not in "Standard PC" mode without any acpi. But it has CSM. I put a working XP harddisk into it and I can see the desktop. But then appears a message: lsass.exe cant configure a device correct, Bsod. The same in Safe mode, with VGA, I try all. So I think, that this error is not acpi related. It belongs to a setting of an unknown device other where in Bios, and this device starts also in non acpi mode and in Safe Mode via F8. Because it has a Realtek Lan chip, I think, that I can setup a Debug session. But from my last experiance with HP notebooks this does not help. We will see, Dietmar EDIT: Just now I have an idea: I will make an XP on another compi, with all the drivers for this notebook Omen.

@Dreamer24 The RJ45 port or the Realtek Chip 8168 is damaged on this Lenovo G50-80. I come to the idea, because it also does not work in "Standard PC" mode, means without any acpi. And also only 2 from 10 times under win10 this device is shown in Device Manager. I test on another, same compi and at once the Network 8168 appears. Any way, to make USB to work is a crazy hard job. It can be done, because all USB2,3 work to full in "Standard PC" Dietmar

I checked a lot of different DSDTs from Bios for the I7-5500u cpu (2015-2021) for the Device (XHC). This cpu is a little bit slower than the I7-3520M in the x230 Lenovo notebook, for which I get everything to 100% to run under XP. Crazy, nearly all manufacturers use the identic code for the XHC, with code strange as much as possible in its DSDT and makes it for acpi XP impossible, to use any USB device. No matter if you use mouse, USB-stick, always the device is "recogniced" with Ven_0000&Dev0000. Without acpi, XP install with "Standard PC" all USB works, so it is really only the fault of the acpi tables (25 of them, all together). This should mean, that on no compi with I7-5500u cpu the USB under XP SP3 can run. Dont know about win7. But just now I found an old Lenovo W550S, which has also the I7-5500u cpu and drivers for XP SP3! At once a look into its DSDT shows, that there the Device (XHCI) is complete different from those other DSDTs. Oh, soon fun will start. I edit all the DSDT and SSDT files with the code of this Lenovo W550s. In last winter I have done the same for the HP255g6 with success. Hard work but light can be seen at the end of the tunnel Dietmar

The problem with USB2,3 is clearly acpi related, because when I choose "Standard PC" via F5 on TXT Setup, I get all USB to work under XP SP3 on the Lenovo G50-80 notebook. Also I succeed to overcome any sleep possibility for USB under modd in DSDT with acpi. But then, under Acpi PC, all USB still show "Unknown Device". No lan under "Standard PC", so I think, the Realtek 8168 or its RJ45 port here is defect. Also no sound, because for XP, there is no Conexant audio driver. So, Lenovo did really all, for to make this notebook fail on XP Dietmar

This was my last modd of the DSDT for to enable the Realtek 8168 Lan port on the Lenovo G50-80 under XP SP3. The driver installs "correct", but then always symbol tells "no network cable connected" in Task list. Crazy, because a compare with the Realtek driver and its place Glan in DSDT of the N100 board works(!) with this modd Dietmar EDIT: I start to think, that this mechanical switch at the crazy RJ45 port or the 8168 lan chip itself is defekt. Because the detection, if a cable is connectet, happens only at the Lan chip itself, because suddently Voltage appear at this port. And this has nothing to do with DSDT. Question for me now is, if Win10 can even (sometimes) detect without a correct working mechanical switch this 8168 device. In most cases, 8 of 10, the Device Manager in Win10 is empty, does not show this Ether Lan device Realtek 8168. But when it shows, this Lan port works via cable. Device (GLAN) { Name (_ADR, 0x00190000) // _ADR: Address OperationRegion (GLBA, PCI_Config, Zero, 0x0100) Field (GLBA, AnyAcc, NoLock, Preserve) { DVID, 16, Offset (0xCC), Offset (0xCD), PMEE, 1, , 6, PMES, 1 } Method (_PRW, 0, NotSerialized) // _PRW: Power Resources for Wake { Return (GPRW (0x6D, 0x04)) } Method (_DSW, 3, NotSerialized) // _DSW: Device Sleep Wake { } Method (GPEH, 0, NotSerialized) { If (LEqual (DVID, 0xFFFF)) { Return (Zero) } If (LEqual (PMES, One)) { Notify (GLAN, 0x02) } } }

I tried also this change in DSDT for the Realtek lan driver. Does not help. The Realtek 8168 driver installs. Then tells: No Lan cable connected. But it is. When you deactivate and activate the 8168 device in Device Manager, at once the whole device is gone and even its entry in registry is deleted, crazy Dietmar Device (GLAN) { Name (_ADR, 0x00190000) // _ADR: Address OperationRegion (GLBA, PCI_Config, Zero, 0x0100) Field (GLBA, AnyAcc, NoLock, Preserve) { DVID, 16, Offset (0xCC), Offset (0xCD), PMEE, 1, , 6, PMES, 1 } Method (_PRW, 0, NotSerialized) // _PRW: Power Resources for Wake { Return (GPRW (0x6D, 0x04)) } Method (_DSW, 3, NotSerialized) // _DSW: Device Sleep Wake { Store (Arg0, PMEE) // Ensure NIC stays awake If (LEqual (Arg0, One)) { Store (One, PMES) Notify (GLAN, 0x02) // Notify OS that device is awake } } Method (GPEH, 0, NotSerialized) { If (LEqual (DVID, 0xFFFF)) { Return (Zero) } // Force device wake and link active state Store (One, PMEE) Store (One, PMES) Store (One, PWST) Notify (GLAN, 0x02) // Device Wake } }

I find the part for the Realtek 8168 in DSDT: It has name Glan. Here is the code after modd, for to overcome any sleeping of the Lan driver. For this, I have to use Iasl from 2014(!) or a lot of errors appear. EDIT: I succeed to boot modded DSDT with the nice Acpi_Patcher at boottime from @Mov AX, 0xDEAD, but it does not help. When I fresh install XP SP3, with the Lan cable connected, the Realtek 8168 is shown in Device Manager. When I install the correct driver, after the symbol in Task list tells: No Lan cable connected, but it is. When I reinstall this driver, the device disappears from Device Manager and cant be awaken until you install XP new. Then the same procedure. XP cant start this driver from sleep. Now I am looking, what part of the Lan driver looks, if a Lan cable is connected. It is not the Lan driver itself, just someone who tells the Lan driver now connection is ready (Lan cable is connected). I have to remember to use for the Acpi Patcher the DSDT from running compi, not DSDT from Bios or I get Bsod 0x0000007E 0xC0000005 . The mechanical switch at this RJ-45 connector works. There is a pin on the other side of the RJ-45 slot, that is pressed down for some contact, when the mouth of this crazy slots opens. Dietmar Device (GLAN) { Name (_ADR, 0x00190000) // _ADR: Address OperationRegion (GLBA, PCI_Config, Zero, 0x0100) Field (GLBA, AnyAcc, NoLock, Preserve) { DVID, 16, Offset (0xCC), Offset (0xCD), PMEE, 1, , 6, PMES, 1 } Method (_PRW, 0, NotSerialized) // _PRW: Power Resources for Wake { Return (GPRW (0x0D, 0x04)) } Method (_DSW, 3, NotSerialized) // _DSW: Device Sleep Wake { // Override device sleep wake behavior to keep the device active Store (Arg0, PMEE) Store (One, PMES) // Ensure that the device remains in a powered state } Method (GPEH, 0, NotSerialized) { If (LEqual (DVID, 0xFFFF)) { Return (Zero) } If (LAnd (PMEE, PMES)) { Store (One, PWST) // Ensure the device status is set to powered on Store (One, PMES) // Ensure the device is maintained in an active state Notify (GLAN, 0x02) // Notify device wake } } Method (_PS0, 0, NotSerialized) // Power On { // Override power state to keep device ON Return (Zero) } Method (_PS3, 0, NotSerialized) // Power Off { // Prevent the device from powering off Return (Zero) } }

I just found, that there is a mechanical(!) switch on this crazy RJ45 connector of this laptop. I come to this idea, because Win10 also does not show the Realtek 8168 network device in Device Manager. And you cant use any RJ45 cable. It needs to have this clip, or the mechanical switch is not fulfilled. So with via this switch, I get this RJ45 lan port to work in win10, but not in XP. Oh.., what a downgrade in quality from Lenovo in this notebook compared with the x230 notebook. The x230 notebook is from 2013, but it has in every point better benchmarks as this G50-80, both i7, and quality is 1000% plus Dietmar "Yes, the Lenovo G50-80 does feature a type of mechanical switch within the RJ-45 port. This switch is part of the port's design to allow for a slim profile, often referred to as a "folding" or "drop-jaw" RJ-45 connector. When you insert an Ethernet cable into the port, a small hinged piece inside the port moves to accommodate the connector, effectively creating the necessary contact points for the Ethernet connection. This design is common in many modern slim laptops to save space while still providing a full-sized Ethernet port."

Here is the DSDT, also dsdt.raw of the Lenovo g50-80 together with its Bios, fetched from this notebook. May be, someone can see better than me, where the big sleeping for USB and also for Lan happens Dietmar https://ufile.io/60o5g5ux

@DaniiX Hi, I nearly get all to run under XP SP3 on Lenovo G50-80 from 2015/2016 notebook with Intel i7-5500U, 2x8GB DDR3 SoDIMM, Intel Graphics 5500, Radeon M330. Only the USB driver shows "unknown" device. This behavior I know from past while experimenting with @daniel_k, the sleeping mode is active in its USB Hub in DSDT in Bios. I will compare different Bios for this notebook, if I find one with not sleeping for the xhci driver in its DSDT. If not, I will edit DSDT in Bios by hand. What you have to do for XP SP3 install: 0.) Disable all "Secure" in Bios (Hit the very small button for to go to Bios Setup , next to the power connector.) 1.) UMA graphic disable. 2.) At the last (boot page) in Bios set "Win81 OS" to "Other OS". 3.) Enable "Legacy" mode. Dietmar PS: Without any risk of Bios modd the DSDT modd can be done with the nice ACPI Patcher at boot time from @Mov AX, 0xDEAD . EDIT: The Lan driver for the RJ-45 with DEV_8168 works, but does always show: "no network cable connected". Crazy, I think, this is also the symptom of deep sleep for the Lan driver. Crazy, what manufacturers around 2015 did for crazy things, for no longer enable XP install^^..

@reboot12 For the UEFI XP SP2 bit64 12900k cpu, you also need to install the modded hal.dll and intelppm.sys for XP SP2 bit64 Dietmar PS: Here they are. Now, really everything works for pure UEFI boot on GPT on the Gigabyte z690 UD DDR4 board for XP SP2 bit64. I installed those files by hand. https://ufile.io/95vlrwgr

Here comes pic from XP SP2 bit64 on GPT harddisk on pur UEFI with working(!) graphik, nice work from Gelip @reboot12 waaoohh.. Dietmar

@reboot12 It is not because of the compi hardware. The problem is the medium itself. Winhex "decides", if RAW copy is possible or not. But @Dave-H is correct, it is a little bit off topic here Dietmar

@reboot12 No. It is a fundamental problem of a modern medium, that is not a harddisk. The real speed of data transfer is not much more than 10MB/s on them on a loong run, even they show crazy high values. This is true also for Win10. The only exception from this is the Intel Optane storage, which was cut. This storage medium OPTANE even dont need TRIM Dietmar

@Dave-H I think about, where to post this yesterday evening. But I think, this is really important, and so I decided to post here, because I know, that a lot of people read here, sorry, Dietmar

@reboot12 With smaller USB stick, there is never a difference via "Copy Block" vs "Clone whole disk". The answer is, as ChatGPT tells: The internal logic of an USB stick changes time by time the "LBA to real adress" on stick Dietmar EDIT: I just check your times for copy. The Kingston has 64 GB. 64*1.5 min= 96 min. This is EXACT my time, that the "Clone whole disk" of my Kingston stick needs, 11MB/s. But with "Copy Block" exact only 24 min. It is even more crazy: For a whole image of my System WD harddisk with 2TB, via "Copy Block" I need only 3 hours. So, the transferspeed of this nice WD 2TB harddisk is 185 MB/s on a really loong run. Here you see at once the "good and fast modern world" ^^..

@reboot12 My Winhex is 11.9. Funny, my old Winhex copies without internal intelligence all, what it is offered, bit by bit Dietmar EDIT: Just now, my *.img from the Kongston USB3 stick is ready. Now, Winhex shows no differences to the USB stick and this *.img. This means, my version of Winhex copies indeed the actual block of everything correct and the USB stick is also correct. And this RAW copy is 4 times faster.

@reboot12 You can select a block in Winhex, for a given file. I use this method for the whole USB3 stick. It is ultrafast. Now I understand what happens: These raw data via "Block Copy" are exact that one, that stays on the USB3 stick at the moment, when it was copied. But other than on a harddisk, there is NO one by one LBA adressing to the real Values in an USB3 stick. The internal logic of the USB3 stick changes this data, as it think, that it is useful, crazy, for example not to write to the same memory too much, or to overjump errors Dietmar The behavior you observed is due to the fundamental differences in how data is managed on USB3 sticks compared to hard disks. Wear leveling, garbage collection, and ECC on USB sticks introduce complexities that raw block copying cannot handle correctly, leading to discrepancies in bit-by-bit comparisons. However, file-level integrity is maintained through the file system, ensuring that restored files are accurate.

@reboot12 This is, what ChatGPT tells about the difference of both copy methods via Winhex. But for me it is still strange: Does it mean, that Winhex copies the Checksum always between the files??? It seems, that Winhex indeed does a check of every sector, that it has been copied correct. But the mystery remains: The data on an USB3 stick are other stored other (geometrie, sectors???) than on a harddisk Dietmar Winhex: Image File (Whole Physical Disk Copy): Objective: Create a complete copy of the entire disk, including all sectors, both used and unused. Additional Tasks: Checksum Calculation: To verify the integrity of the copied data. File System Metadata Handling: Reading and writing file system metadata to ensure a faithful reproduction of the disk's structure. "Copy Block" Mode: Objective: Copy specific blocks or sectors of the disk as specified by the user. No Additional Tasks: No Checksum Calculation: Since only specific blocks are copied, there's no need to verify the entire disk's integrity. Ignoring File System Metadata: Focuses solely on the data within the specified blocks without considering the overall file system structure. Impacts on Duration: Image File: Longer Duration: Due to the comprehensive nature of the task, including checksum calculation and file system metadata handling. Advantages: Higher Data Security: The checksum ensures that the data integrity can be verified. Complete Copy: Includes all data, which is beneficial for forensic analysis and full data recovery. "Copy Block" Mode: Shorter Duration: Faster as it copies only specified blocks and skips additional tasks. Advantages: Efficiency: Suitable for situations where only specific parts of the disk are needed. In summary, creating an image of the whole physical disk is more thorough and secure but takes longer, while the "copy block" mode is quicker and more efficient for targeted data copying. 4o

@reboot12 I am just trying your method for the Kingston USB3 stick. This operation needs 4 times longer than my method of to copy the USB stick just as a whole block via Winhex. Do you know, if via your method Winhex makes a check, if the copied data are the same as the original ones? Because there must be a reason for time delay. Still the mystery in the behavior of USB3 sticks in my post above stays. Because there is no error at all after crazy checks, but different structure in the stored data from the USB stick, compared with the structure from a harddisk via Winhex. I use my last acpi.sys from the Ramsey XP SP3 and also the USB3 driver from there (nice for USB3 boot modded driver from @Mov AX, 0xDEAD) on a Gigabyte z690 UD DDR4 board, 12900k with 32 GB ram. Before I noticed real errors in any USB3 driver that I tested, when I copy millions of files one by one from the USB stick to the harddisk. And this errors happen also under Win10, 64 bit Dietmar

Hi, I make a test with two USB3 sticks: Kingston Workspace Datatraveler 64 GB and Sandisk Extreme Pro USB 3.1 256 GB Both sticks show a transferrate of more than 300 MByte/s and until now I am happy with them. Because on both sticks are important files from me, today I make a one by one bit copy via WinHex from the whole USB stick each. Both USB sticks have few bytes left free. And I store this result on a brandnew harddisk WD2003FZEX as*.dat file each. This 2TB Sata harddisk is manufactured in the end of 2023 in Taiwan, solid as much as possible. But now comes my bad surprise: Via Winhex I compare the content of the original USB stick with its *.dat file on this harddisk. Millions of errors are shown. This I have never seen before. When I transfer data between two of those harddisks from 2TB of WD, the error rate is <10^(-14) , means no error(!) in whole 2000 Gigabyte. Just now I am checking, what is going on. I copy the *.dat file back to such another, empty brandnew WD harddisk. and compare the result via Winhex of correctness. Then with with Beyond Compare I check, if there are really errors in the data, or if the crazy USB3 bus copies the space between datas not correct. Just now I think, that even expensive USB sticks are bad as much as possible for to store sensitive data Dietmar EDIT1: As expected, because of the ultrahigh quality of those harddisks, not a single error is shown between the *.dat files and their copy to this brandnew harddisk. EDIT2: The file compare via Beyond Compare 4 shows for 77 different files (all located on the USB stick) the message "stream error, cant compare". So, what does this mean? The error is indeed located on the USB stick, the information cant be read out any longer from that USB stick. Winhex shows during copy no error. In my Winhex versionit is no possibility to check, if a copy has been done successful. Crazy, those 77 files are gone (no, see Edit3). Some big, some small.. EDIT3: Oh crazy, I check by hand some of the files on the USB stick, that cant be read by Beyond Compare 4. They work. All is ok with them. So I run another check with Beyond Compare 2. All files are now shown as identic. What does this mean? The USB stick is not that bad as I thought. Bad is Beyond Compare 4. Nice works Beyond Compare 2 and it is even much faster. And: The files are stored on an USB stick, so that Winhex cant read them out one after the other as on a harddisk. EDIT4: This also means, that you can make with Winhex a correct bit by bit data copy from an whole USB stick. And restore after also correct all the files from such a *.dat file. But the structure in such a *.dat file from an USB stick is different to the structure for the same files(!) via harddisk. Would be interesting if somebody here in the forum can put some light on this behavior of an USB stick.