Future development of 98/SE/Me service packs

[Petr]

I have some ideas about future dvelopment of service packs fo Windows 98 Standared Edition, Windows 98 Second Edition and Windows Millennim Edition.

What should be considered:

- There are very limited human resources, so no big project can be finished.

- Windows 9x operating systems are still in wide use, low percentage (<10%) still means maybe 100,000,000 computers with this operating system worldwide. Migration to other operating system seems to be hardly likely.

- Creating of various language versions almost from the scratch is just wasteful use of people energy.

- Official Windows 9x support will end within 2 months, therefore the "final" version of the service pack could be created.

- Many people with limited possibilities to buy new more powerful computer have also limited access to to Internet, like dialup paid per minute. Therefore very big packages may not be the best solution.

The idea I have is to define several separate projects and try to focus on finishing and testing them also separately.

1. Unofficial Service Pack

I think it should contain all well tested components of operating system, but nothing more. Even no IE updates. What remains to do:

- correct uninstalling (It means to back up of the files and registry changes replaced by the uSP during the install and to put them back during uninstall)

- correct slipstreaming (modifying of some INF files)

- deep testing of all new updates, resolve the modem issues.

All fixes that conflicts with some hardware/software configurations should

a) install just when no conflicting hardware/software is is installed, or

b) be made optional during the uSP install, or

c) separate packages should be created for install just by peoples who need them.

An example of already known files with problems is ESDI_506.PDR 4.10.2226 but there are more such fixes I think.

Internationalization

I think I will be able to make localized versions of the service pack for all languages based on U.S. version of Windows 98 SE (probably also FE and ME), it means the following 20 language versions: Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Italian, Norwegian, Polish, Portuguese - Portugal,

Portuguese - Brazil, Russian, Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish and Turkish. I can localize all files but not the installer and license. The result would be exactly the same service pack (the same code) for all languages, just text strings would differ. It means the problem / correction in any language would valid for all language versions.

Questions:

- uSP contains just hotfix (QFE) versions of files. What about to make also much smaller service pack containing official (GDR) fixes only.

- What about to use the same installer/unistaller as is used in the Consolidated Support Pack for Windows 98 Standard Edition?

2. Internet Explorer

If we consider the last release of every major version (4, 5, 5.5, 6) as possible candidate for installing, there are the following combinations:

Windows 98 Standard Edition: contains 4.01SP1, may be instaled 4.01SP2, 5.01SP2, 5.5SP2, 6.0SP1

Windows 98 Second Edition: contains 5.0, may be instaled 5.01SP2, 5.5SP2, 6.0SP1

Windows Millennium Edition: contains 5.5, may be instaled 5.5SP2, 6.0SP1

To minimize the download size, I'd consider to repackage all versions just with one platform supported.

I'd consider to integrate all the latest patches into the install package if it would not be too complex.

There has to be also the consolidated update pack for each of the above mentioned version. My short test shows that files from Win2K 5.01SP3 latest update can be used and they support the latest html help update.

I have also noticed that even the CD version of IE6.0SP1 install tries to connect to the internet to verify digital signatures and without Internet access the installation may take about 1 hour. The dependancy should be eliminated.

3. Skins and similar things

In this package could be skins that would replace the icons and the general look as

- Windows Me/2000

- Windows XP

- Windows Vista

- Tango Desktop (?)

including new or modified boot and shut down logos.

4. Add-ons and updates from Microsoft, like:

- Windows Installer 2.0

- (Managed) Direct X (8.0, 9.0c)

- Media Player (7, 8, 9, partially 10)

- .NET Framework 1.1 and 2.0

- WMI 1.5

- Jet Engine

- MDAC

- Remote Desktop client

- ICS client from Windows XP

- Directory Services Client

- additional fonts

- additional text/graphic filters

- runtime files for VB, VC, ...

- what about Java?

Many of the above mentioned packages could be repackaged to containd the latest fixes and not to contain components required by other operating systems only.

5. New and improved programs

- Notepad replacements

- TweakUI

- ASPI layer 4.6 and 4.71

- Tihiy's Add/Remove programs

- etc...

6. nUSB driver

- Provided that the nusb is installed on system with the unofficial service pack, no language dependent files are required and the nusb package could be much smaller and for all languages the same.

7. USB 2.0 drivers.

This is big pain in Windows 9x versions. Although all chips are EHCI comaptible and therefore just one universal driver could be used (as it is in Windows 2000 and XP), because of some licensing issues, for every chip and sometines even for every motherboard or add-on board separate driver supplied by the manufacturer is required.

Maybe somebody could be able to write such an EHCI driver?

At present, in short, it looks like this:

Orangeware driver 2.4.2 supports USB2 (EHCI) chips made by NEC, ALI, some ATI, some Nvidia, SiS for some motherboards, VIA VT6202 chip, Intel ICH4 for certain motherboards.

Orangeware driver 1.1.0.2 supports Intel ICH4 and ICH5 chips.

VIA driver supports all VIA based motherboards and add-on cards.

ALI driver supports all ALI based motherboards and add-on cards.

Unsupported are:

- SiS chipsets on some motherboards

- newer nVidia chipsets

- newer ATI chipsets

- newer Intel chipsets (with ICH6, ICH7, 6300ESB, ICH8 southbridges)

Maybe one package with all available drivers for Win9x could be created?

8. 137GB+ EIDE driver

I think that summarized information about the alternative drivers (VIA filter driver, VIA miniport driver, Intel ATA driver, Intel Application Accelerator, ALi/ULi, Promise, Highpoint, CMD/Silicon Image, ...) to ESDI_506.PDR could be summarized, compatibility tested (ATAPI devices, Nero various version, S.M.A.R.T. support, ...) and maybe prepare IDE drivers pack.

9. General chipset drivers

I have created and tested INFs for Intel 945/955x chipsets, maybe even for other chipsets it could be created?

10. Drivers for other hardware

SATA, SCSI, PCI-E graphic cards, sound cards, network adapters, wireless adapters, modems etc... Maybe some simple overview or database could be created?

Of course there could be a bigger package with selectabel install of more of the above mentioned components, e.g. by using Gape's Infex.

In general, when creating packages using Iexpress, is there any reason or advantage why to use Windows XP, Windows 2003 or maybe even IE6.0SP1 versions of these set of tools? Makecab creates cabines of the same size, but on Windows XP/2003 with incorrect times/dates, and advpack.dll and wextract.exe are just bigger and therefore the whole package is bigger. Is there any description of changes made in advack.dll to be sure what lowest (and smallest) version could be used without any problem?

Code signing would be good idea but I've got no positive feedback to my suggestion.

As a final result I can imagine a single website with set of smaller downloads (for people with slow Internet access) and one big package for people with broadband connection.

I admit it looks partially similar to MDGx's website but my opinion is that although MDGx's website contains all the information and files or links to them, it may be very hard to use it by not very skilled people who just want to have their Windows 9x OS in top shape.

Comments?

Petr

Edited May 20, 2006 by Petr

[PsycoUnc]

-lol, Petr, I've just posted a (somewhat lengthy, as well) post about creating something like this (albeit smaller, simpler ); and I even mentioned MDGx's site as a "link-to" list for the combo-package to call upon: instead of trying to group every possible update/tweak/extra into one (or several) huge package(s) to download, just make a tiny, "list-linker" installer/program, with checkboxes and links to MDGx's own links (since his site'll probably outlive the solar system), effectively grouping everything together in a much easier way for the individual users to use, and follow... kind of like leading the user by the hand, saying "ok, here's what you probably want, and in the proper order, so now just click the links (or Google for em, if the links go bad), download the individual pkg's/updates/etc to a single group directory on your hard drive, and when you're ready, I'll install ('call') it all for you"...

...

-providing a sort of "database" management of it all for the user, without actually having to include the pkg's/updates/etc... this way, the user just easily gets exactly what he wants, (even just a little at a time, if he desires, especially if on dialup/etc), and we take care of all the "thinking", the linking, the order of operations, the grouping, backup/restore (using a database-style installer, backup/restore would be pretty easy, exactly as I mentioned to MDGx recently regarding his 98se2me), and our list-installer-linker is tiny in size and (somewhat) simple in programming/maintenance...

...

-of course, trying to include ALL of the variations (win95/98/98se/ME/etc) which you listed above might be a bit too much of a project , unless perhaps we can "compartmentalize" it, make it modular in design, and whoever (in these forums) is interested in each individual area (such as the different OS's, diff. versions of IE, winMedPlay, etc: I myself only like/use/know about win98se, IE5.5sp2, winMedPlay7.1+MPC, etc), could provide the "list" of links (or of stuff to link) for that particular area...

hmm...

-now, mind you, I'm just an "old school" old-timer programmer (before Web or Windows! ), so I can visualize all this in that way; I don't have much experience with Web programming (linking/etc) yet (tho I've started school for that recently, and so far it doesn't look all that bad, especially compared to the Assembly/Machine Language design/coding from scratch that I've done, long ago)... I do understand the issue of trying to keep links up to date, but thx to the Incredible All Knowing All Encompassing and probably Eternal MDGx's site (possibly among others; we could actually reference several link-sites, in case one/some links go bad), along with a little of His cooperation, the linking maintenance shouldn't be too bad, I believe... (and of course all the smaller updates/etc would/could already be grouped, zipped, 'n available for download, so the actual number of links to maintain wouldn't really be large)...

-hmmmm (again)....

-of course, this is probably all just dreaming, for me; my "extra" available time will likely be over before long, and then I'll again be too overwhelmed w/schoolwork (going back to college, at 38, after 17 yrs, and doing it all online which runs twice as quickly/intensely as "regular" classes, is all I can handle, especially w/chronic medical probs interfering), so I can spout all this nice talk, get the ball rolling, but I'm not sure how much actual "work" I'll be good for...

>;]

[CLASYS]

How about a webpage with hyperlinks to do it all? [self-contained, it shouldn't take more than a single DL DVD-ROM

cjl

[PsycoUnc]

-yup, right after I posted I thought the same thing, was about to (re)-edit that (dam)-long post for the zillionth time, but thought it was (too-)long enough already... ...

-but then I thought about how sometimes, with all these updates/addons/etc, some people have posted about having problems getting back online {which would be BAD, cause they can't even access our Restore/uninstall options to fix whatever broke}, or even booting up windows (I was one of the latter, about 8 months ago, and boy did I let MDGx have it! -but then I cooled down, apologized [or maybe deleted/edited the post before anyone would see it; can't remember], and worked around it because of countless years experimenting/programming, but I kept thinking: what if this happened to the average, overly-trusting user? He'd might be screwed... but in either case, with a downloaded program (similar to 98se2me), at least there are potential options/help already on the hard drive... perhaps some emergency DOS-mode-accessible helpful batch files { to MDGx, again: he does this in his 98se2me, and it's a really great idea...} -plus, there are always potential web page/internet/ISP/security/web browsers/.... problems, and that would also be BAD when dealing with functions which directly modify the user's OS... Always have to keep in mind the strong devotion us "98se" old timers have for our beloved dino-OS; anything that can go wrong, will go wrong for some people...)

>;]

[LLXX]

What about building a complete distribution of 9x (let's not call it 98se anymore ) by repacking the existing installation with new drivers and options? A "Windows 98 Third Edition"? Many of which could be integrated into this new edition could be:

- updated files from uSP

- selectable IE versions (5 - 6, I don't think 4.0 should be kept anymore)

- "Skins and similar things" - optional of course, many of us still prefer original 9x style

- "Add-ons and updates from Microsoft" - optional, but why not

- "New and improved programs"

- Notepad replacements - ok, but so many to choose from...

- TweakUI : should be installed by default. very useful.

- ASPI layer 4.6 and 4.71 - optional, I don't have one on my machine

- Tihiy's Add/Remove programs - optional...

- nUSB driver : should be part of the standard driver INFs

- USB 2.0 drivers. : You mention that each different manufacturer has a different driver, but how different are those drivers? If they're almost exactly the same except for device IDs names and the such, then a generic version could be made of them, and the INFs made a part of the standard driver package.

- 137GB+ EIDE driver : I haven't forgotten about it...

-now, mind you, I'm just an "old school" old-timer programmer (before Web or Windows! ), so I can visualize all this in that way; I don't have much experience with Web programming (linking/etc) yet (tho I've started school for that recently, and so far it doesn't look all that bad, especially compared to the Assembly/Machine Language design/coding from scratch that I've done, long ago)...

Do you want to look into this issue and try solving it? (very long) thread about 137Gb limit is in this forum...

- General chipset drivers: a good idea, to have the chipset drivers integrated into the standard driver package.

- Drivers for other hardware : I'm not too sure about this. Many hardware already come with their own drivers on a separate CD, if 9x can boot without needing such drivers they can be installed later.

- Default VCACHE limiter in SYSTEM.INI of 524288 to allow installation on systems with 1Gb+ of RAM without having to remove the RAM before installation.

Code signing would be good idea but I've got no positive feedback to my suggestion.

I don't think it's necessary.

[Acheron]

I'm already trying to modularize Windows 98SE updates, so that they can get merged into the original Windows 98SE CD. You then can select components on install.

I found on this forum link to someone who set up a project. Altough unfinished it's pretty documented and contains lots of info about Windows 9x setup:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=53927

About Internet Explorer: Don't put any energy trieing to make IE4.0 work. It's pretty old and doesn't support much websites.

I think we should go for IE 6.0. It's the latest and most compatible browser. There is a work-around for the freezing Windows problem also posted on MSFN.

About Iexpress usage. Go for the latest. It's most compatibel with inf-scripts. In latest versions support is added to select on which platform to install (32-bit or 64-bit).

Makecab in Windows XP touches date/time of compressed files. You should replace it with makecab.exe from the Cabinet SDK: http://support.microsoft.com/?id=310618

Skinning support is not a good idea. I already get many questions about the Windows ME icons in current Dutch Service Pack. I remove them from next release.

Edited May 24, 2006 by hp38guser

[MDGx]

I use:

- iexpress.exe build 6.00.3790.1830 from Win2003 Server SP1:

http://www.mdgx.com/ws3toy.htm#SP1

Newest I'm aware of, unless some1 has Vista beta.

- wextract.exe build 6.00.3790.0 from Win2003 Server setup CD.

Newest I'm aware of, unless some1 has Vista beta.

- good idea to use older makecab.exe build 1.00.0601 from CAB SDK:

http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#INF

That makecab.exe release is the only one I know of that doesn't change date/time stamps of created EXE packages.

About best earliest version of advpack.dll:

I use advpack.dll build 5.00.2013.1301 [suggested by erpdude8]. Works like a charm.

Please note that all advanced package Iexpress installs also need these 2 files [there are only 2 builds, this one is the best]:

W95INF16.DLL 4.71.704.0

W95INF32.DLL 4.71.0016.0

If any1 wants these files [zipped], please e-mail me [click the blue E-mail link]:

http://www.mdgx.com/form.htm

HTH

_____________________________________________

FYI, especially useful for developers:

I found msix [console command line tool], which extracts all files from an MSI [MS installer] package:

http://blogs.msdn.com/heaths/archive/2006/04/07/571138.aspx

D/l here [361 KB, free, English]:

http://hstewart.members.winisp.net/downloads/msix.zip

MSI must be installed, of course:

http://www.mdgx.com/add.htm#MSI

Works with all 9x + NTx OSes.

HTH

Edited May 24, 2006 by MDGx

[eidenk]

I found msix [console command line tool], which extracts all files from an MSI [MS installer] package:

http://blogs.msdn.com/heaths/archive/2006/04/07/571138.aspx

D/l here [361 KB, free, English]:

http://hstewart.members.winisp.net/downloads/msix.zip

for finding this . Long sought after here.

[eidenk]

Please note that all advanced package Iexpress installs also need these 2 files [there are only 2 builds, this one is the best]:

W95INF16.DLL 4.71.704.0

W95INF32.DLL 4.71.0016.0

If any1 wants these files [zipped], please e-mail me [click the blue E-mail link]:

http://www.mdgx.com/form.htm

I have a W95INF32.DLL 4.71.17.0 (Md5 = fd80a30e65c3b45e00011c937693cfa4)

I also have three different W95INF32.DLL 4.71.0016.0

Their MD5 checksums are :

47cb3746dc7afbe09fc7a37329143c09

4be7661c89897eaa9b28dae290c3922f

7d4a0d6c685107ac1b5089806cd4273b

There seems to be a fair amount of MS runtimes with the same build number that are internally different.

I can send you those files if you are interested MDGx.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Msix, Is it already set because I don't know how set dependencies

and stuff.

Edited May 24, 2006 by PROBLEMCHYLD

[eidenk]

Msix, Is it already set because I don't know how set dependencies

and stuff.

All you need to do is type and run something like this :

MsiX D:\DESKTOP\MSIX\WEBFLDRS.MSI /out D:\DESKTOP\MSIX\

And your files will be extracted.

I don't know if this answers your question which is a bit obscure to me.

[Fredledingue]

Skins and similar things

IMO you have to be very careful about sorting the essential to the optional and to the freak add ons.

By order of importance:

-System stability pack:

Things that are needed on every w98 box (let's assume SE for the moment). The upgrades that makes your PC more stable without adding anything visible to it.

-Hardware specific patches:

Like USB maximus driver, 138 Gb hd fix, unofficial drivers for some graphic cards etc that may not be needed on every machine.

-IE and internet related fix

Becaue one may update IE through a separate process and also to split the file size.

Then why not including alternative browsers like Maxthon and Firefox.

-System maintenance and config pack:

TweakUi, Tihy's Add/Remove program and new reg editor, a start up utility, a cleaner, a set of batch files etc

All those apps that are system related .

-App replacement pack:

Metapad or a choice of notepad replacements, another calculator, a file manager etc

-The Gamer pack.

I'm not a gamer so I can' give examples but you get my drift. Some benchmark tools, Direct X etc

-Audio Video Media pack:

WMP9, alternative multimedia players, Lame mp3, video codecs etc

-Cool freeware pack:

Like the App replacement pack, but instead of replacing default M$ apps, it adds some.

It would include famous, well known, widely used and tested freewares.

-Cosmetic pack:

Boot logo, Tihy'Revolution pack, w98-looking-like-XP packs, icons, wallpaper rotatetor, screensavers, Eppie etc

-The Beta testor pack,

Includes all the in-progress developement projects, the non fully tested patches and other unofficialities.

In one word:

The MDGX's eternal website redesigned.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Fredledingue

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I agree with you guys 100%.

But their should be a lite version too.

A version with only updates.No Notepad no extra option, no extra tools etc....

JUST SYSTEM UPDATES.

I think more people like me just wanna download 1 file to install everything

1st time around with no reboot hassle after every other update u feel me.

This should be the BIG 1.

After this update package there should be nothin else to install but 3rd party apps.

IMO the only thing that should be option in the pack is stuff like Dial up Networking

Netmeetin.etc

Everything else should be unattened.

Heres what i think is a good upgrade pack

1=wucsp

2=236926USA8

3=243199us8

5=dxtxtra

7=instmsia

8=wm9codecs

9=KB911565

10=q282949

11=Sct10en

12=Q285895

13=Q323708

14=Q260710

15=Q301540

16=dsclient

17=MSRDPCLI

18=Q258765

19=Q250876

20=Oe911567

21=Mp912452

22=msjavwu

23=NM30.exe

24=Mp911565

25=KB89221

26=KB891122

27=Ie905495

28=Graphics

29=Mp911564

30=Mp832353

31=98tshoot

32=KB908519

33=908519fx

34=905915

35=KB905915

36=Ie893371

37=Ie883586

38=msvbvm50

39=vbrun60sp6

40=vcredist

41=VCREDI~1

42=VisualBasic6-KB896559

43=VS6SP6U

44=Setup

45=KB896727

46=KB891781

47=KB887797

48=KB885492

49=KB837009

50=KB833989

51=IEAudioUpdate

52=873374

53=Cnfupd

54=msagent

55=263044usa8

56=273017USA8

57=273727USA8

58=311561usa8

59=811630USA8

60=823559USA8

61=unicows

62=js56men

63=243450USA8

64=4756US8

65=TelnetUp

66=KB904706

67=Q249824

68=323255

69=323172

70=314147

71=274548

72=273991

73=259728

74=256015

75=249973

76=245729

77=242975

78=238453

79=252694

80=840315

81=q313829

82=KB891711

83=scr56en

84=KB870669

85=usbmte

86=260067

87=240075

88=crlupd

89=329115

90=245682

91=888113

92=249635

93=274370

94=290831

95=242937

96=rootsupd

97=249146

98=306453

99=241084up

100=253697

101=272137

102=Kb896358

103=IE329919

104=IE813451

105=Q816362

106=Q893627

107=Q909363

108=Q896156

110=269874usa8

111=309073USA8

112=314941USA8

114=315575USA8

115=CRYPT9X

116=DCOM98UP

117=DOTNETFX with SP1

118=DOTNETFX 2.0

119=MS DUN 1.4 Upgrade

120=DirectX9c

121=DXM9X

122=HHUPD

123=IMMC

124=netsetup from WinXP

125=NUSB22E

126=OLEUP

127=Q222930

129=Q240664

130=Q909363

131=Q912919

132=RICHED9X

133=TTFPAK

134=U891711

135=URLMONFX

136=wmi9x

137=L2TP/IPSec VPN Client v1.0 32-bit

138=Maximus Decim InternetExplorer 6.0sp1 Component Update 1.0

139=Maximus Decim Data Access Component Update, New! MDDACU 1.1

140=WMP9

and all unofficials updates as well.

Edited May 27, 2006 by PROBLEMCHYLD

[Fredledingue]

The -System stability pack: -

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

The -System stability pack: -

Thanks for the sum up