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chauwa
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how do they measure idle then? you just said idle means that its off, but i dont think that the cpu is using power when its off...

idle to mean means exactly what you said it wasnt, just processes going and a few apps going. if my cpu is going under 5% cpu usage, then to me that means idle. so how exactly do you measure idle?

Exactly - I'd call the machine essentially idle when it's just sitting there. Sure, it will have a few dozen background processes (assuming Windows, Linux, or another modern OS) but that's the nature of the game.

I'm sure we've all see Toms Hardware's and plenty of other measurements using the Kill-A-Watt devices showing most people don't need anything close to the mega power supplies people are wasting their money on nowadays. Most of these estimates of power requirement are WAAYYYYYYY too high.

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Hehe no offense but who said Intel is better in performance and even in price comparison? :blink:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?mod...1&chart=173

3DMark06 - Graphics

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->6326

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->6590

3DMark06 - CPU

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->2366

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->3792

F.E.A.R (prices from newegg.com)

Core 2 Duo E6600 w/ fan 4MB 1066MHz $232 -->129(fps)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor $185 -->126(fps)

Heh not to mention that when it comes to overclocking AMD kicks Intel BU** :whistle::ph34r::hello:

Ah almost forgot,as for the temp yeah AMD have higher temperature but i had amd on all of my systems since my first computer and all with stock fan and never had any problem.as for the power usage i dont know if amd use a little more but i dont think it really matter in a PC,but it is important when it comes to Notebook's.

Edited by Woomera
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how do they measure idle then? you just said idle means that its off, but i dont think that the cpu is using power when its off...

idle to mean means exactly what you said it wasnt, just processes going and a few apps going. if my cpu is going under 5% cpu usage, then to me that means idle. so how exactly do you measure idle?

I think you misread my post. I didn't say idle is off. I said whenever my computer would need to sit in a largely idle state for a long period of time instead of leaving my computer, I will turn it off. Therefore, for me, the idle state is of non-importance to me.

Hehe no offense but who said Intel is better in performance and even in price comparison? :blink:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?mod...1&chart=173

3DMark06 - Graphics

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->6326

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->6590

3DMark06 - CPU

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->2366

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->3792

F.E.A.R (prices from newegg.com)

Core 2 Duo E6600 w/ fan 4MB 1066MHz $232 -->129(fps)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor $185 -->126(fps)

Heh not to mention that when it comes to overclocking AMD kicks Intel BU** :whistle::ph34r::hello:

Ah almost forgot,as for the temp yeah AMD have higher temperature but i had amd on all of my systems since my first computer and all with stock fan and never had any problem.as for the power usage i dont know if amd use a little more but i dont think it really matter in a PC,but it is important when it comes to Notebook's.

You can't compare performance strictly on synthetic benchmarks as they don't deal with real-world performance. Also, some benchmarks axe more on memory usage, not processor usage.

As for overclocking? The Core2 lineup are excellent overclockers.

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how do they measure idle then? you just said idle means that its off, but i dont think that the cpu is using power when its off...

idle to mean means exactly what you said it wasnt, just processes going and a few apps going. if my cpu is going under 5% cpu usage, then to me that means idle. so how exactly do you measure idle?

I think you misread my post. I didn't say idle is off. I said whenever my computer would need to sit in a largely idle state for a long period of time instead of leaving my computer, I will turn it off. Therefore, for me, the idle state is of non-importance to me.

Hehe no offense but who said Intel is better in performance and even in price comparison? :blink:

http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?mod...1&chart=173

3DMark06 - Graphics

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->6326

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->6590

3DMark06 - CPU

Core 2 Duo E6700 4MB 1066MHz (without fan) $559.99 -->2366

Athlon 64 FX-74 w/ fan 2MB 1000MHz $439.99 -->3792

F.E.A.R (prices from newegg.com)

Core 2 Duo E6600 w/ fan 4MB 1066MHz $232 -->129(fps)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ Windsor $185 -->126(fps)

Heh not to mention that when it comes to overclocking AMD kicks Intel BU** :whistle::ph34r::hello:

Ah almost forgot,as for the temp yeah AMD have higher temperature but i had amd on all of my systems since my first computer and all with stock fan and never had any problem.as for the power usage i dont know if amd use a little more but i dont think it really matter in a PC,but it is important when it comes to Notebook's.

You can't compare performance strictly on synthetic benchmarks as they don't deal with real-world performance. Also, some benchmarks axe more on memory usage, not processor usage.

As for overclocking? The Core2 lineup are excellent overclockers.

Agreed. My E6300 ($220-ish) went from 2.13 to 3.2 on the first try on my Gigabyte P965-DS3 board, and it's continued to work perfectly ever since. That setup should be about 10% faster than the fastest Intel non-quad CPU on those lists - and would beat AMD's offerings across the board.

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@jcarle - Yes, you're right about your usage habits, but most people don't encode videos most of the time or do other CPU intensive tasks all the time.

My point was just to say that Intel systems have a narrower "power-band" if you will than AMD systems do. Unfortunately, most corporate networks aren't setup properly, so all those machines just sit there idle while people aren't at work. A proper setup would take advantage of WOL in order to wake the machines and apply updates and do maintenance, but many administrators are lazy, letting the computers just run overnight (thereby letting them do the updates).

In that kind of scenario (which is fairly common), the AMD wins on the basis of power consumption.

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the only true way is to connect a wattmeter to your system.

there is a website where you can enter in all of your parts and it will give you an approximation of your wattage, but i cant remember its name..

edit:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

i just did a calculation for my friends e6600+8800gts setup and it didnt even reach 400w, he doesnt overclock

mine is just a little over 400w due to the overclock, otherwise i would be under 400w

Edited by ripken204
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the only true way is to connect a wattmeter to your system.

there is a website where you can enter in all of your parts and it will give you an approximation of your wattage, but i cant remember its name..

edit:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

i just did a calculation for my friends e6600+8800gts setup and it didnt even reach 400w, he doesnt overclock

mine is just a little over 400w due to the overclock, otherwise i would be under 400w

You know, it absolutely blows me away every time I read one of your posts. Have you learned NOTHING in all the time you've been here? A wattmeter will serve him absolutely no use other then to calculate his power bill. Using the fact that "your friend's computer is fine with 400w" is of no reference whatsoever.

How do you calculate how much W'ts you need anyway for a system?

Would 450W be enough for 3 HDD's, 3 DVD/CD-ROM's, a Gf 8800 serries, and a 2.4GHZ Dual/X2 processor intel/amd with 4 GB ram?

You have to be careful on how you juge the power supply you need. You need to remember that Watts are a calculation based on Voltage times Amperage (W=V*A). A computer's power supply will generate multiple voltages, which is why they're called Switching Power Supplies. They generate 12V, 5V and 3.3V, all of which add to the wattage. Look at the following to see what the difference can be.

Power Supply 1: 500W

30A * 12V = 360W

25A * 5V = 125W

4.5A * 3.3V = 15W

Power Supply 2: 500W

40A * 12V = 480W

3A * 5V = 15W

1.5A * 3.3V = 5W

Now, the numbers are unrealistic as they do not reflect typical power supply values, but the principal still applies. Both power supply are calculated to be 500W power supplies but the amperage available for each voltage is completely different.

In the parts you list, the 8800 alone is very aggressive on the 12V. A lot of memory can require more 3.3V or 5V, same with the CPU. In general, a large quantity of optical drives and/or hard drives can also strain the 12V and 5V lines. If you want to be on the safe side, get yourself a power supply from a reliable company such as Seasonic and choose one that has an ample quantity of amperage on all rails. A little bit of research and a little bit of time and you will be able to find a power supply that will provide enough amperage in a well balanced fashion to suit your needs. Most of the power supplies in the 500W+ range then to have amperages that suffice all around. If you plan on building yourself a large system, then you'll want to look for something that is in the 70A range on the 12V lines.

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Aha, now I understand the amperage thing.

Very good stuff.

But as I am looking at let's say this:http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1648606&Sku=R456-1000 they have there 2x 12 V amperage. Does that simply add up? 18A + 16A in this case? And what about the minus -12V?

Thanks

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Yes, the 12V amperages add up to calculate the power supply's wattage, however, they're usually divided amongst the connectors of the power supply. Hence why some of the higher class power supply identify which connectors belong to which voltage rail so that you can connect your components appropriately to distribute the load.

As for the -12V, most power supplies all have 1A on it. I honestly don't even remember what it's used for.

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I guess then all the new power supply between 100-200$ available to buy have this option for distribution.

As for the amperage on 12V I see a lot having a lot of Amps on 3.3 and 5V but comparing these 2 with the 12V not that much

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Ok so in the end what is the difference between 1 12V rail which has let's say 45 A and 3 12V rail which has 15A each combined to 45A.

It depends if the manufacturer just split the amperage, which would mean there is no difference, or actually gave each rail dedicated parts, which would make a difference. It's a mixed bag as to what's better.

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