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Tweak for consistent Windows Vista’s Fonts!


XPero
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Fix Vista's Fonts  

54 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you like this to be included in vLite tweaks?

    • Yes, it would make Vista nicer and more consistent
      44
    • No, I prefer default mix of fonts in Vista dialogs
      10


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I voted No, not because I disagree with the fonts being a problem but because I think the fix needs to be less drastic.

There may well be a reason somebody wanted to use Arial or Sans Serif in their App, to differentiate from other text for example. Also, as others have mentioned there are downsides such as text not fitting their labels in standard windows dialogs as well as 3rd party apps. This is due to Segoe UI being bolder, and as a result, wider.

I don't really see the need to replace fonts like 'Tahoma', 'Arial' and 'Microsoft Sans Serif' when they already render as anti-aliased. It is the aliased fonts such as 'MS Sans Serif' that look so bad in the Vista UI, and these are the only ones I've replaced.

Here is the same code that is included in the zip file I've attached. As you can see, I change fewer settings and keep the fonts which already work as anti-aliased for cleartype. I think this results in a cleaner and more reliable font setup. I don't have 'Helv', 'Times' or 'Tms Rmn' so I have set sensible (but untested) values for these, if you have better settings or find any problems please PM me and I'll amend.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Substitute old, aliased fonts with their nearest anti-aliased counterparts
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes]
"Helv"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"MS Sans Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"MS Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"MS Sans Serif"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"System"="Arial"
"MS Serif"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"Times New Roman"="Times New Roman"
"Times"="Times New Roman"
"Tms Rmn"="Times New Roman"

Attached in the zip are the following files:

  • AntiAliased.reg (shown above) is my attempt at a fix.
  • FixFont.reg is the original fix referenced by this topic.
  • UnFixFont.reg is to undo both the previous fixes.
  • Fonts.exe is a quick vb form to show the fonts (used for the screenshot)

Instructions to apply font settings:

  • If you've previously applied either fix then run UnFixFont.reg
  • Now, apply either my fix (AntiAliased.reg) or another and log off, then on to see the changes
  • Run Font.exe (in zip) to test the new settings.

----------------------------------

Download:-

----------------------------------

radar.zip Er.. not here anymore?? Please see code above or OP.

----------------------------------

Comparison of settings:-

----------------------------------

Also gone. I'd repost if I thought they'd stay put...

Edited by jamieo
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Thanks Jeronimo, I think you'll like it. It looks a bit odd in the test screenshot as it's not a proper program and you wouldn't normally have all those fonts together. In normal use it just looks... right. I've included some decent screenshots below..

I'd like some confirmation the other settings in that original reg file aren't needed. I haven't overode the settings as forcefully as that file has (explicitly changing filenames etc.) and so far it seems ok - when changing stuff the whole OS (and everything else) uses I prefer to do only as much as is needed and no more. ;)

Screenshots:- [note: my cleartype gamma is set a little lighter than default - this is independent of the fix refered to]

(Click the links on the headings, they were too big to attach)

As Vista comes naturally:

The only thing wrong with this pic is the nasty aliased font being used by 'Autoruns' making it look out of place.

With the original font fix applied:

'Autoruns' fits in better now but look at the folder options dialog. The font that was previously there looked much better but now we have big ol' Segoe UI that doesn't even fit! This problem occurs in a lot of places on a variety of programs.

With my settings applied:

'Autoruns' is taken care of with an anti-aliased version of it's original font (Microsoft Sans Serif) and the folder settings retain their original font which is the same as the one 'Autoruns' is now using. Personally I think this font not only fits better than Segoe UI, but also looks better for crowded dialogs like these...

Note:

'Microsoft Sans Serif' and 'Tahoma' look very similar with the latter being slightly 'looser' in appearance. This makes it a reasonable replacement instead of 'MSSS' which would improve consistency as there would only be two main UI fonts. However, it's also very slightly wider and using it in place of 'MSSS' resullts in text being cut off in the same folder option dialog shown above.

Jamie

Edited by jamieo
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jamieo, nice!

How about we do selective tweak...for example to see which is that font which overlaps too much and leave that one out and exchange others which benefit from it.

But I don't know any more...your votes say Yes but I'm still against it after these last shots.

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How about we do selective tweak...for example to see which is that font which overlaps too much and leave that one out and exchange others which benefit from it.

Sorry for the delayed reply, I don't seem to be getting topic notifications...

A selective tweak is exactly what I did above with my version of the settings. The original replaces fonts like 'MS Sans Serif' with 'Segoe UI' which is a completely different font that is much wider. Mine has replaced it with 'Microsoft Sans Serif' which is the same font but it renders as anti-aliased - I don't know what microsoft were thinking with that!!! :need a 'blow brains out' emoticon here!: ;)

Oh, and what happened to my attachments?!?!? :realmad:

Jamie

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I thought I should point out which font's were affected how as without comparing word by word, it can be easy to miss that I made many changes at all!

Replaced with newer version of the *same* font originally set

  • "MS Sans Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
  • "MS Sans Serif"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
  • "Helv"="Microsoft Sans Serif"

I don't know how different 'Times' or 'Tms Rmn' is from 'TNR' ??

  • "Times"="Times New Roman"
  • "Tms Rmn"="Times New Roman"

Should probably change to Times New Roman - have not seen it used in anything though.

Hmm.. default for "Tms Rmn" is to use MS Serif so it makes sense that I should amend the following...

  • "MS Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
  • "MS Serif"="Microsoft Sans Serif"

Replaced with best fit that is anti-aliased

  • "System"="Arial"

Based on the above I only consider a couple of settings to be away from the defaults - the rest are 'fixes' that should have been there from the start!

If I knew 'Times' and 'Tms Rmn' were definitely the same as 'Times New Roman' I could say only 'System' and 'MS Serif' have been changed. All other fonts are actually the same type, just anti-aliased as you would expect.

In fact, where (and as often as) 'System' is used you probably wouldn't mind leaving it alone if you were going for a (Single Checkbox, either On or off) tweak that you didn't want to change the actual 'type' of any fonts.

I am the only one thinking a grey font is not the easiest to read ?

If that's in response to the shots I posted then I have the cleartype gamma tweaked which is nothing to do with either of the fixes posted - your gamma will retain whatever value you currently have.

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?act=At...st&id=15825

looking at that makes me think that your settings are not bad too, although not much different from the default..

That was the point. Except for a couple of obscure fonts there are already newer versions in the default install that render as anti-aliased. I should point out that the top group of settings at the beginning of this post, while looking like the defaults, are actually different while maintaining the same 'type'.

I am actually against a "regtweaks" part in nLite/vLite, it's better users have their .reg file so they now And realize wich tweaks they use.

While not against the reg tweaks in nLite, I don't actually use them. My contribution here is purely for the benefit of those reading, not to sway nuhi either way as it doesn't matter to me personally - I would post the response elsewhere (the original blog would be a good start I guess) but it just happened to come up here as I'd finished doing my own tweak. (This statement isn't really directed at you ZileXa, I didn't take offense to your post or anything ;))

Jamie

Edited by jamieo
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I am actually against a "regtweaks" part in nLite/vLite, it's better users have their .reg file so they now And realize wich tweaks they use.

But hey, I like Segoe UI, and ofcourse 1 font is better then 4 for the GUI. So it's better if people use this tweak. And since most people like to use the regtweaks part of the tool, it would be nice if this was at least an option.

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OK! Need to post quickly before I completely bore myself (and everyone else) with this.

New reg file, seems to be closest to original fonts while ensuring cleartype does it's job everywhere. I'll forward this to the original blogger too.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\FontSubstitutes]
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; 100% accurate replacements, in both type and width
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Helv"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"MS Sans Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"MS Sans Serif"="Microsoft Sans Serif"
"Times"="Times New Roman"
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Less accurate, slightly narrower replacements
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"MS Serif 8,10,12,14,18,24"="Times New Roman"
"MS Serif"="Times New Roman"
"Tms Rmn"="Times New Roman"
"System"="Arial"

It should be seen from the above as well as the attached png that the first group are a no brainer. The second group are a little less accurrate but will not result in any 'overlapping' as the replacements are all slightly narrower.

Ok, Done! :)

Edit: Updated screenshot using default cleartype settings (gamma=1000).

post-33948-1167286016_thumb.png

Edited by jamieo
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I checked again and the new seam to appear a bit blurry when compared to the original/default. However it does appear more consistent and it will most likely go unnoticed (the blurry bit). I do not like the System substitute as it is less noticeable (System seems bold). Exspecially the Times replacement is much better. Good job!

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The 'blurryness' is the desired, cleartype effect - it may be that my cleartype settings are not optimal, I'm still playing with them (see updated pic). I agree with your views on the 'System Font', 'Arial Bold' would work better but I don't know how to set that - it could happily be omitted from the fix tbh.

Jamie

Edited by jamieo
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Didn't find anyone pointing this out, but Helvetica should be replaced with Arial, not MS Sans Serif, because Arial is MS version of Helvetica, Helvetica is the original and can be found on the Macs and such. Looks as far as I know almost exactly the same.

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Thanks for the input Ibis. However, I did already notice 'Helvetica' is in the registry substituted with 'Arial' while 'Helv' is in the undo reg file as 'MS Sans Serif' - I just assumed they were two different styles of the same family.

While I'm not 100% sure what the original substitution was on Vista (has anybody an actual backup?), a quick google for 'helv font substitute' seems to confirm my settings as well as the assumption that at least Microsoft see 'Helv' and 'Helvetica' as two different typefaces. I would like confirmation of this though - if 'Helv' is purely an abbreviation of 'Helvetica' then it seems strange that MS treat them differently..

Edited by jamieo
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