Auto-Patcher For Windows 98se (English)

[Eck]

Yep, that's my other (and I had thought, only) big 98SE mess. I'm glad for the explanation that the Via driver install just zonked out in remaking vmm32. Kind of figured as much but seeing my luck and having Vista's DVD actually fix things up I'm not going to get started with 98SE again unless I get to adding it in VMWare to my setup. I am surprised that that one muck up could render my whole hard drive useless to anything but an operating system install disk. Even Partition Magic and fdisk /mbr couldn't deal with it. How Vista saw everything as being fine I'll never understand.

I was aware of the Via places and procedures. This is a late (last?) model motherboard of the Socket A series so the 4.43 didn't work well with it. It couldn't install itself, in fact, always giving a setup error. The motherboard cd even had a later variety of 4-in-1's but the newer Hyperion set had always worked fine.

I'll just do a Vista/Linux setup. What's on here now has to go because the Vista setup is, shall I say, just something I wanted to play with temporarily as an experiment. It did fix up my hard drive from whatever that vmm32 error did to it, which is nice.

My unhooked PC has my actual Vista Retail Upgrade installed on it with a dual-boot Vista/SuSE Linux. It has an ATI card and a semi-defective USB hub that I use a Belkin 4 Port hub to work around. I wanted to use this nearly identical PC I built with the same model of Epox motherboard but with an NVidia Videocard. This, to see about highly vaunted NVidia superiority when used in Linux. Plus, no USB problem. I just ordered a second Vista from Amazon so I can be all legal and everything. In a couple of days it'll get here and I can wipe the hard drive and start fresh. (Eidenk will likely get a chuckle out of that.) I bought it at about the same price as the discount Microsoft gives for additional licenses, but I'll have another shiny new box and the 2 DVD's again (32 and 64 bit). Microsoft's web site wouldn't let me buy the license from whatever it is I've got installed here that I'm not saying, so I would have needed to hook up the other computer to get it to work. Luckily, Amazon had the full boxed up new thing for the same price as just the additional license.

Now, if NVidia can only catch up to ATI in Vista driver stability I'll be happy. The latest NVidia WHQL's do crash and recover every so often at startup, and they also blue screened me once (so far). The ATI card never crashed itself or the system on me, even during the Vista Beta period. But since I intend to spend the majority of my time in Linux I think the NVidia setup is the way to go for me.

So, thanks for the assistance and I will look forward to using the newest Auto-Patcher on a VMWare Guest setup at some point soon.

Edit - Ah! I was replying to submix8c but saw you're post, briton, when I was done.

In my prior IOS Error difficulties it had occurred on both large ATA drives and large SATA drives. That 48 Block driver update doesn't affect the installs on a SATA hard drive as that driver isn't being used.

This new vmm error is on the SATA drive. Both of these drives are 250GB. But in case you're thinking it applies, that IOS Error I get all the time also occurs on a normal 120GB ATA drive! Oh! It also happened to me on 2 really old motherboards with tiny 20GB hard drives. Like I said, 9x and me (I, not Windows Me!) haven't gotten along for a long time now.

From my experience, as long as I installed on the first primary partition and kept the size limited to up to 120GB, I had no problem whether using the ESDI pdr update or not. On Sata, of course it didn't matter and I substituted Norton Disk Doctor for Scan Disk and at one time even installed 98SE to the whole 250GB. The ESDI pdr driver isn't used so it didn't even matter that the patch hadn't been created yet. On ATA, yes it matters and I never even tried going past 120GB with one of those.

Of course, those good 98SE times were before my difficulties of the last couple of years.

Edited May 6, 2007 by Eck

[soporific]

I installed the Via Hyperions and rebooted to something like "System needs VMM32 and can't find it so put the darned thing in your path will you?"

If you are sure all the hardware is still 100%, it's definitely the drivers you are trying ... can't you pin down ones that may not be the latest, but were known to work sometime in the past? If that doesn't work, then accept that the new OS may as well go on.

re: NEWS - a snippet from the first post:

* the modules are getting themselves reorganized:

- the Windows Installer module has been renamed to Windows Essential Components and contains: Windows Installer v2, Force ASPI 1.7 (WNASPI32.DLL 4.60.1021), Windows Networking Tool, and QFEchkup (more maybe added later). They will not have optional status as i think they are all necessary and safe to run in all circumstances. With ASPI, if you have the later version of the dll, it will simply report that the update has been superceeded, and if you don't have it you may as well get it.

- i'm thinking of adding shockwave and flash to Windows optional components (or i may resurrect the 3rd party apps module) - any comments?

[Drugwash]

Dunno about Shockwave (never had it required by anything) but Flash is too widespread for it to be left astray. Just make sure it's the latest version and it's getting properly installed. YouTube already says "This sh!t requires Flash version 9 or later" so stick it in.

As for ASPI, I think I heard about some 4.71.xxxx version, or am I completely out of track? Checking with Nero Info Tool, I get a report of ASPI 4.71 (0002) installed and working properly. It's just that AFAIR, the installer was pretty F'ed up and it needed some fix to be able to properly install that version.

I have been disconnected with this project for some time and I am sincerely sorry for that. It may still take me some time to come back. However, things are going just fine, AFAICS, so keep it up!

[Eck]

The Hyperion 5.10's always worked fine for me so I guess something had just gone wrong with the setup that time. Perhaps since I used the Sata drive and had installed other things and rebooted a few times before doing the Hyperion install, it hadn't worked out. When I used the Sata drive in the past successfully, I had installed the Hyperions first thing. Guess I'll go back to doing that. I had thought that since the Windows 98 Resource Kit, the Microsoft Cd Sampler, and Plus! 98 (without McAfee, the Cd Player, Golf since I have the full version, or the Disk Addons) install some really old things that it would be better if I did those first but hey, guess I was wrong!

The newer aspi driver (4.71a2) often times doesn't work properly even if it somehow gets installed properly. So that ForceASPI 1.7 with the 4.60 versions is really the best. Much better than what comes with 98SE and rarely causes any problems. And using ForceASPI to install it is best because that batch also installs the needed registry entries that none of the official Adaptec installers do.

Having Flash and Shockwave installers is kind of a waste since often times folks install programs that install older versions. I've nearly always had to get all my programs installed, uninstall Flash and Shockwave using both the add/remove programs listings and the Adobe Flash and Shockwave uninstallers from their website, rebooted, go to Windows Components in add/remove and uncheck Shockwave Flash and reboot again, delete all the stuff in the C:\Windows\Macromed folder, reboot, and then install the latest versions from the Adobe website. I usually install Flash from the website, then install the downloaded Firefox version, and the downloaded Shockwave Installer Full which installs both to Internet Explorer and Firefox. This was my 98SE routine anyway.

On XP I install newer versions of Microsoft stuff like Money, which need the latest Flash installed first. So for that I do install the latest, then after all my stuff is installed I then go through the uninstall, reinstall routine. On Vista it's easier because I don't install any of the older stuff that installs old versions. I just install the latest Flash, install my software (and Encarta installs version 10 of Shockwave) then just do the Firefox Flash and the Shockwave Installer Full so the very latest Shockwave is installed to both IE and Firefox. No uninstalling needed. Microsoft Digital Image Suite Ann Ed installs the older versions of Flash (6, 7, and 8) but in a way that they're just added nicely but don't mess up the newer one.

So having it in the Auto-Patcher just gives us another version to uninstall in order to get all the crap cleaned up so just the latest version is installed clean.

Funny, but I usually unchecked that Windows Networking Tool and the Windows Update Checker. I don't see how those are essential. More like convenient tools for people that want them. Seems like they should be optional to me.

Oh! And yes, since I now have spent $490 for 2 copies of Vista I AM going to be using it! Sheesh. I might as well have bought a computer. Not really though. Buying retail means whatever computer I build in the future to replace these with will just need a call to Activation to switch one of these Vista's to it. So cost of operating system will be removed from the future expense, and I won't be stuck with crappy OEM proprietary hardware choices. I like building my own.

But, 98 will be revisited within VMWare. Love my Star Trek "Captain's Chair!" Only 98 plays that, and a few other favorites.

Edited May 7, 2007 by Eck

[briton]

Dunno about Shockwave (never had it required by anything) but Flash is too widespread for it to be left astray. Just make sure it's the latest version and it's getting properly installed. YouTube already says "This sh!t requires Flash version 9 or later" so stick it in.

Surely there is no point in including Flash players or Sun Java - they produce updates so darned often without any announcements could you really keep up?

For the players, users only have to hit this URL to test and download/install if necessary both Flash and Shockwave: http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/welcome/

Obviously for Sun Java, they just go to java.com. Again, the releases come spradically and sometimes seem like such small changes.

Patching Win98SE is one thing. But once you have secure internet access configured with an up to date anti-virus program, the work is practically done isn't it? I mean otherwise are you going to include security/malware programs and so on? I put the basics of those on my boot CD but it's a personal choice thing!

[Drugwash]

I'm also thinking of users that have no internet access. One may go over and install the OS and Auto-Patcher on top of it, and get the most out of it.

But I guess Shockwave/Flash could be regarded as third-party apps. Anyway, I'd rather have Flash 9.x somewhere on the CD and have most apps/games run, than get stuck with older IE versions of them.

[soporific]

re: flash, shockwave -- I'm convinced that they aren't ideal candidates for inclusion in the next version of AP - but i'm reminded of an idea by MDGx where we just include the URL (for which they have permanent ones to the latest version) and the user grabs it from the net themselves (by this i mean AP will direct their computer to do this automatically -- the user doesn't want to have to do all the mundane stuff like downloading) -- so AP will still serve its purpose and without the overhead of the extra MB (which is an issue for lots) --- so really, i could have thought this all through before posting the idea, but thanks for the feedback nonetheless, you are all of the genus type of human being commonly known to all and sundry as "utterly fantastic". Now if i could only get some of this type of feedback on the UBCD thread ...

Edited May 8, 2007 by soporific

[celtish]

... by this i mean AP will direct their computer to do this automatically -- the user doesn't want to have to do all the mundane stuff like downloading...

How would this work when you use a programme like FlashGet as default downloader?

Postscriptum - I agree that things like flash and shockwave don't need to be included

Edited May 8, 2007 by plonkeroo

[soporific]

How would this work when you use a programme like FlashGet as default downloader?

It will work the same way as when you choose to visit this project's homepage (ie here) --i just code START <download location> -- the OS recognises an internet location and tries to 'go there' --- since you are actually connecting to a file that is normally downloaded, what should happen is that the download starts, or it is grabbed by FlashGet and you know the rest ...

Funny, but I usually unchecked that Windows Networking Tool and the Windows Update Checker. I don't see how those are essential. More like convenient tools for people that want them. Seems like they should be optional to me.

Regarding the networking tool, think of it like this: If you easily had the option of doing so, would you un-install that component from Windows XP?? Why would you bother? It's certainly useful if your XP machine seems to have 'forgotten' its network settings, or if something else changed them, or something terrible happened yada yada yada. So what AP is doing is 'restoring' this very useful feature to your Windows OS as it should have been there in the first place. Install it and hide the shortcut in the system utilities folder hidden away in Siberia with all the other useful windows utilities, while all of Microsoft's less useful programs are more prominently profiled, and just forget about it. And thank me when you need to use it once in a blue moon! And the size of the thing certainly is significant - i'm sure we can afford the 385k of space - maybe less if i get of my butt and make a proper inf for it... [edit: well, i nicked the inf from another update and adapted it so we now have a properly iexpressed hotfix, saving a massive 35k of space]

oh, and QFECHECK is already on your computer, this makes sure its the latest version, and chucks an icon in front of it. not even worth the effort it takes to unselect it in AP.

Edited May 8, 2007 by soporific

[Eck]

Oh. Okay. But regarding the Flash and Shockwave stuff, I still see it as just perhaps something that you could just suggest the url in one of the messages or readme files. We really don't want the link that installs Shockwave from the internet automatically as most of the programs we will install after the Auto-Patcher will install older versions over this anyway, and that automatic version is only the cut down Shockwave for Internet Explorer that not only doesn't install to Firefox, but also doesn't include all the parts of Shockwave Installer Full. And the Shockwave versions prior to 10 install the older Flash on top of everything as well.

So perhaps a listed link to the latest Flash installer and a listed link to the Shockwave Installer Full download would be helpful, but not a link to automatically download and install the stuff.

The inclusion in the manual install folder of another folder containing the latest Flash Uninstaller and the Shockwave Uninstaller for the older stuff like Shockwave 8 versions would be helpful to those who need (everyone) to use those before downloading and installing whatever the latest versions are. And perhaps a readme instructing to first use add/remove programs and uninstall every Macromedia, Flash, Shockwave program, reboot, use the stand alone uninstallers, reboot, use the Windows Components tab of add/remove to uncheck and uninstall Shockwave Flash and reboot, delete all the files and folders in C:\Windows\Macromed, reboot, and to then install the latest versions. That is how to get a fully working clean install of this stuff in 9x. And perhaps suggest that one should install their Flash/Shockwave software and games, encylopedia's, etc that install older versions before doing all this. Otherwise they'll just have to repeat this procedure.

It really is that much of a mess on 9x only. XP requires less mucking about and Vista doesn't let much of the older stuff install so just installing the latest does the trick.

Occasionally the uninstallers get stuck as well. Not a big problem as we wind up emptying the folder anyway before installing the latest when using 9x (not XP or Vista). It just nice when the uninstallers don't get stuck as then the registry entries are cleaned up nicely. Again, not a big problem as the latest versions put in anything they need.

[Drugwash]

Ah, so you want UNINSTALLERS for Macromedia/Adove stuff, but not the actual installers? Did I read that correctly? So what should one uninstall, actually?

Do you remember that Auto-Patcher is meant to install/update what is not installed or old? So why shouldn't it be some Macromedia installers available, so one could have at least a newer version of Flash/Shockwave, even on a second/third/whatever run of Auto-Patcher?

And those links to the latest versions could still be available, for those who do have internet access.

[briton]

re: flash, shockwave -- I'm convinced that they aren't ideal candidates for inclusion in the next version of AP - but i'm reminded of an idea by MDGx where we just include the URL (for which they have permanent ones to the latest version)

See post # 485 - I included the link to the place which tests all Macromedia players and will install on demand unless you refuse. Here it is again - try it (in any Windows version):

http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/welcome/

Sorry not to help with UBCD - I find the boot CD is so personal, I make my own and change it for different needs. You are trying to cater to all tastes and all eventualities so partial success is amazing and you should never feel a failure!

As an example, I wanted to move my XP partition from first partition of second HD to 2nd partition of 1st HD, put Vista on the 1st partition, convert some partitions to NTFS, move some other partitions and resize them all WITHOUT using any commercial software. Done in about 11 minutes and without breaking any licence agreements, but all the boot CDS on the web couldn't do it so I had to find my own way! For others, my way might not have worked either. UBCD is great, but the first thing many people are gonna do is break it apart, swap some things and so on. My own boots now have a full 2.44MB disk image which contains all I want if I want to go straight into DOS without CD support - again, built without paying a penny and without pirating. Good luck!

Edited May 9, 2007 by briton

[Eck]

Well, the uninstallers wouldn't hurt. I found that they were needed to have a clean install of the latest versions on 98SE. And installing the latest versions early in the process I suppose wouldn't hurt either but in most cases would be kind of a waste of time as all the crap installed by older versions afterwards makes uninstalling everything part of Flash and Shockwave necessary.

I guess for those who then run Auto-Patcher a second time would then get the new version installed again. Kind of a long process for just Flash and Shockwave though. For me, I'd likely only run Auto-Patcher once in any case. Once I've installed all those 98SE2ME and 98MP10 full versions I likely would be done with updates and would rather go on to actually using the system. When a new version comes out with new updates, that's different.

And of course going to the Shockwave media check page, at least for Firefox users, just lists the versions currently active on your system. No auto-install is started unless you're using Internet Explorer with Active X allowed. I use that page to check both browsers following the Flash install in Internet Explorer, the downloaded Flash for Firefox install, and the Shockwave Installer Full setups.

The links to the Internet Explorer Flash installer, the Firefox Flash download link, and the link to Shockwave Installer Full would be great to have in there for those who have trouble with the sometimes confusing Adobe website. The uninstallers put in the manual installs folder would be nice too. The installers get updated too frequently to include in Auto-Patcher in my opinion.

It is a procedure. It's not, unfortunately, just go get the newest version and install it like most other plugins. On Vista, yeah, as the operating system doesn't come with the oldest version imaginable and most folks won't be installing programs with Shockwave 7 and 8 on Vista. Last time I did, none of the Shockwave files actually installed (thankfully), but the older Flash ocx files were added to the Flash folder. But since I don't think Vista allowed any registry change the only one used would be the latest one that has a Vista compatible setup. So there's no more hassle on Vista.

But this is 98SE, which allows anything to make registry changes and install software. In a lot of cases this is nice but with Flash and Shockwave it makes a user need to go back and fix the mess.

[soporific]

The patcher decided my 48BITLBA was newer (there was a later version on the forum than the one included).

Yo Briton, can you tell me more about this ... which version of ESDI_506.PDR do you have installed?? (to find out, put a copy of the file you have installed into the \bin directory in the AP program directory, open up a DOS box at that location, and type GETVER ESDI_506.PDR and it will tell you the file version) ... i can't find any newer version of this update

[shof515]

I installed Windows 98 SE in Virtual Machine 2007 since i was wanted to play a couple of games. After downloading this from softpedia, i get this error:

Archive Intergtiy check failed. The setup file is not complete.