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MDGx

98SE2ME = Killer Replacements: ME -> 98 SE

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Okay.  The only files that needed to be replaced by the older 98SE backed up files were the set with NETAPI, NETAPI32, NETDI, and NETOS dll's.  The sets before that didn't work so I returned the Me files to the System folder.

Now, I do have a question regarding the HD size.  I noticed that the Bios reports my Western Digital 80GB HD as 65,535MB.  However, using the updated FDISK Windows does detect the entire drive.  To try to negate possible file corruption I only partitioned the whole thing the first time just to see what would happen.  I now only have 64,400MB partitioned as a single Fat32 formatted partition.  I leave the rest unpartitioned.

The question is, did I need to restrict the partition size?  Or since Windows and even format at the end recognized the whole thing, is it safe to use the whole drive?  The Bios reports the lower number but Windows will see the whole thing if I partition for it.  Or did I do right by just setting the partition to a size within the Bios reported number?

1. Thanks a lot for taking the time to figure out which files are not compatible with 98SE. I'll remove them from 98SE2ME in the next edition [sometimes tonite].

2. HD size = issues to consider:

- If your mobo BIOS is of an older generation [~ before 2000], it probably doesn't support LBA [Logical Block Addressing] int13h [28 bits] for disks > 32 GB [max 137 GB] or LBA int13h 48 bits for disks > 64 GB [max 2 TB].

In such case you may want to consider installing a so-called "BIOS extender" like Easy Disk or Ontrack which install their own extended boot sector, usually provided by the drive manufacturer.

- 98SE scandskw.exe supports disks > 32 GB only if you install the fixed ESDI_506.PDR build 4.10.2225:

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=243450

- 98SE needs the updated FDISK.EXE to recognize disks > 64 GB:

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=263044

Gape's SP 2.0.1 installs both these files.

But I digress, you should ask Petr about this.

On a personal note:

As far as disk partitioning is concerned, I use only Partition Magic [retail], currently at version 8.0. PowerQuest was bought out by Symantec [maker of Norton Anti-Virus] a couple of years ago, so Partition Magic is now sold under the Symantec name:

http://www.symantec.com/partitionmagic/

This baby can do anything to any hard disk you throw at it. :)

Hope this helps.

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2. HD size = issues to consider:

- If your mobo BIOS is of an older generation [~ before 2000], it probably doesn't support LBA [Logical Block Addressing] int13h [28 bits] for disks > 32 GB [max 137 GB] or LBA int13h 48 bits for disks > 64 GB [max 2 TB].

LBA addressing is necessary for disks > 8.4 GB, I'm not sure when it was introduced but it is present in the first ATA specification (1997) http://www.t13.org/project/d0791r4c-ATA-1.pdf

INT 13 extensions are necessary for disks > 512 MB and were introduced in January 1995 http://www.23cc.com/free-fdisk/specs-edd11.pdf

48-bit LBA is necessary for disks >137 GB (128 GiB) (max. 144115 TB) and was introduced in ATA/ATAPI-6 standard in October 2000 http://www.t13.org/project/d1410r3-ATA-ATAPI-6.pdf

In such case you may want to consider installing a so-called "BIOS extender" like Easy Disk or Ontrack which install their own extended boot sector, usually provided by the drive manufacturer.

- 98SE scandskw.exe supports disks > 32 GB only if you install the fixed ESDI_506.PDR build 4.10.2225:

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=243450

This is valid just in this case: "This problem may occur on computers that use a Phoenix BIOS and use the Phoenix BitShift translation algorithm to report the geometry of large IDE hard disks." - this is very rare condition.
- 98SE needs the updated FDISK.EXE to recognize disks > 64 GB:

http://support.microsoft.com/?id=263044

Gape's SP 2.0.1 installs both these files.

But I digress, you should ask Petr about this.

Yes, I was able to partition even 200 GB HDD with this updated fdisk, there is only cosmetical issue with displaying sizes above 100 GB.

Petr

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* Removed WinME replacements [%windir%\SYSTEM]: NETAPI.DLL, NETAPI32.DLL, NETDI.DLL + NETOS.DLL from options 1 + 2 to fix network device detection. MUST use Windows 98 SE files instead. [thank you Eck]

Enjoy.

-MDGx, when you remove files from 98se2me, how do we restore the orig win98se files properly? -just copy them back, or do we need to Register/un-Register? Perhaps, when you do this, you could automate the process for us? :whistle: Or would that get a little messy...

Edited by PsycoUnc

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PsychoUnc,

I restored them by entering Command Prompt Only on the Windows startup menu (hold down Ctrl when booting), and copying the files from the backup folder 98SE2ME creates to the Windows\System folder and answering yes to dos when it asks to overwrite the files.

MDGx,

I ran into a problem with trying to install WMP10 on that box. The files would download and extract, but the WMP Bonus Pack for XP would go through the install then say on the last screen that the installation failed. Then, instead of bringing up the installer for WMP10, the batch file would do whatever it does then rebooted the computer. It made the backup of WMP9 system files as you said, but the installation was never done.

Is this perhaps because I always install WMP7.1, WMP Bonus Pack for WMP7.1, and WMEncoder7.1 before installing WMP9? Maybe the Bonus Pack for XP can't install if the 7.1 Bonus Pack is on the system?

I tried a couple of times and made sure to use the updated batch file on that thread (I always seem to lose where that is so that's why I'm posting here). No go. Then I tried to reinstall WMP9 in case something was done to it that would break stuff and the installer would make Windows bring up a Close Program Error saying that the installer caused a Stack Overflow. So I tried uninstalling WMP9 and got the same Stack error.

Heh, so I tore apart the old slow machine (well, took it out and wrapped the board nicely) and put my KT7A into that box. I don't think I'll try that WMP10 install yet. I also usually install the WM9 codecs and WM10 codecs for the 6 and 7 players. Maybe all that stuff has something to do with the Microsoft installer's failing?

Anyway, thanks for patching 98SE2ME. I came here before installing it and there it was. Good deal! I'm using an ethernet connection now (nice having more than 2 PCI slots), so I don't think I would have run into the problem but it's better to keep the files that work.

As far as the HD bios limitations, it did read 64,535 of the 80GB HD. Then Windows would detect the whole size when FDISK'd with the new version. I still didn't like seeing that 64,535 thing in the bios so to be safe I went back and partitioned just 64,400MB as I said before. It's weird that the bios would read that much but not the whole thing, but Windows could detect the whole thing if I had it partioned that way. I have a feeling that the Phoenix bios was one that used that method of detection that Microsoft made that patch for. The system was having copying problems unless that patch was installed. Too limited for my taste anyway. It was fun to see the old programs when I used the recovery cd. Since I uninstall them anyway, I won't miss them. And I'm all legal now since I own a couple of full 98SE retail cd's.

I also use Partition Magic, but not when using one big partition of the whole drive. I purchased the newer Norton version so I can play with bigger drives. But do you know that FDISK is actually more compatible with the larger drives if its limited features will suffice for what you're doing? FDISK will work with the whole drive whereas Partition Magic will leave about 30% unused to work with very large drives.

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PsychoUnc,

Oh! I just went back a page and noticed you commented on my Nero problem.

Well, I bought the Nero 6 Ultra Edition for about $100 on the first day it came to CompUSA. I had been using Easy Cd Hard Drive Reformatter through version 5, then started using the Nero 5 that came with my old (and now dead) TDK burner. Then I managed to, um, use a full version for awhile on a new drive. I felt nice getting all legal again when I bought the new one!

It's funny but this is the first time I ran into the add files crash. I just thought it was the weak excuse for a motherboard I was playing with! Jeez, I hope it doesn't appear again now that it's been introduced to me. The only problem I had with the Nero 6 suite was the off again on again working status of Nero Showtime. Since I use PowerDVD, it didn't matter much to me that for the longest series of version updates that thing had all sorts of playback problems. It seems to work now, but I only test it once when installing Nero then I install PowerDVD and never see it again.

That add files crash is a bad one. My computer monitor blanks and I need to reset. Then, a few times Windows had lost my scanner! That stuff is something we don't need. I'll be hitting the Next button gingerly for now on, worrying whether my computer is gonna be fried by Nero! You'd think that with once a month updates they'd figure that thing out.

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Alright, I've gotta get back to creating my roster set for Microsoft Baseball 2001. The files are on my super duper computer (the A7V880). I decided to stop fooling around after I was just checking out Device Manager for something and Windows froze. It was for no apparent reason, as after booting up everything was fine but I said to myself, "This is why folks like XP better," and unhooked the Abit KT7A and rehooked my Asus A7V880. (It is the only one with XP. I only have one cd of that and I like to do things proper.)

Ahhh. I even plugged the USB stuff into different slots, as I had forgotten which ones I had used, and XP simply detected a new HP 3970 scanner and I now have it listed as HP 3970 #2! I don't know whether this matters, since it works and I'm not gonna try to figure out how I had it before. But, you see how easy? 98 would have given me fits. XP (Palpitine) is more forgiving than 98 (Darth Vader) is.

And, the M-Audio Revo 7.1 sounds almost as good as the Riptide! (Ha, ha.) Riptide gave more bass. The Revo is more accurate though. I just got used to how the Riptide sounded from years of using it. Not really usable with broadband internet though. That's why I put an SBLive into the KT7A as well. I can't deal with the skipping. And forget about it on XP. It can't even handle dial-up on that. Howdy, Dosbox! (Works great with a 2.2GHz processor.)

Edit - Fixed the scanner #2 problem. The original didn't show in Device Manager but it did show up in HP's Diagnostic program that comes with the scanner. It works just like Device Manager. I right clicked both and uninstalled the devices, rebooted, and XP installed just the one where it is now connected.

Still easier than it would have been in 98, which would have gotten thoroughly confused I suspect.

Edited by Eck

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MDGX,

I noticed that last week on my computer that add/remove windows components was

In add remove programs was blank. Since I have 98SE2.01 and 98SETOME installed on my computer

I restored my system from a backup that I made last December. After this add/remove windows

components worked normally, I then installed 98SE2.01 and it continued to work normally.

When I installed 98SETOME (6/11/05) add/remove windows components was once again blank?

Has anyone else seen this? And do you have any ideas about this?

RJM

System

HP vectra VL-600

600 MHz P-III EB

256M rdram

Maxtor 10G (partitioned c (windows), e (programs))

WD 80G (partitioned d (windows), f(swap), g (programs)

TDK 32X CD R/W

ZIP 100

Phillips sound card

Matrox G250 video card

I mainly boot off the D drive and only boot to the

C drive to back up and restore the D drive

Edited by RJM

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I noticed that last week on my computer that add/remove windows components was blank. Has anyone else seen this ?

Are you using Regseeker to clean your registry ? If you choose to autofix all errors it finds, the above systematically happens. To avoid it you need to add this line to the exclude list :

2|SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID

Not sure of course this is the cause of your problem.

PS : I am a Win ME user.

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Are you using Regseeker to clean your registry ? If you choose to autofix all errors it finds, the above systematically happens. To avoid it you need to add this line to the exclude list :

No, I use ccleaner and after the last install of 98SE2ME I did not clean the registry before trying the add/remove windows components.

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-MDGx, when you remove files from 98se2me, how do we restore the orig win98se files properly?  -just copy them back, or do we need to Register/un-Register?  Perhaps, when you do this, you could automate the process for us?  :whistle:  Or would that get a little messy...

I've also added this guide to READ1ST.TXT, under the "FAQ" chapter:

READ1ST.TXT

How to restore original Windows 98 SE system files manually:

1. If you have made a backup of your original OS into C:\W98SEOLD when you ran

98SE2ME.PIF for the 1st time, search for the file(s) you want to restore by

running a File Search with the C:\W98SEOLD folder highlighted from within File

Manager [FM = %windir%\WINFILE.EXE].

2. If you have not made the C:\W98SEOLD backup and if replaced system files

you wish to restore are of SAME version/build as the ones from Windows 98 SE

setup CD CABs, create a DOS mode BATch file using Notepad or better plain text

editor/viewer and name it EXTR98.BAT [example]:

-----Begin cut & paste here-----

@ECHO OFF

C:

IF NOT EXIST C:\TEMP\NUL MD C:\TEMP>NUL

CD\TEMP

EXTRACT/Y /A D:\WIN98\BASE4.CAB %1 %2 %3 %4 %5

EXTRACT/Y D:\WIN98\PRECOPY1.CAB %1 %2 %3 %4 %5

EXTRACT/Y D:\WIN98\PRECOPY2.CAB %1 %2 %3 %4 %5

EXIT

CLS

------End cut & paste here------

and then run EXTR98.BAT followed by exact file name or use DOS wildcards [*.*]

to extract multiple files at once. All files will be extracted into C:\TEMP in

this example.

More info here:

http://www.mdgx.com/last4.htm#EXTRACT

and here:

http://www.mdgx.com/newtip15.htm#CABEX

Make sure you replace D drive letter and/or WIN98 folder name above if your

CAB files are located somewhere else. You can also modify all C:\TEMP

instances to point to any other valid location.

3. If you have not made the C:\W98SEOLD backup and if replaced system files

you wish to restore are NEWER than the ones from Windows 98 SE setup CD CABs:

A. (re)install Gape's Windows 98 SE Service Pack (SP):

http://exuberant.ms11.net/98sesp.html

B. OR install desired files separately from appropriate Windows 98 SE patches:

http://www.mdgx.com/web.htm#98SE

Most system files into %windir% [usually C:\WINDOWS] or %windir%\SYSTEM MUST

be replaced ONLY from native MS-DOS mode.

How to exit/reboot into native/true/real/pure MS-DOS mode:

A. by holding down Shift + F5 at the same time during BIOS boot POST (Power On

Self Test) sequence.

B. OR by scrolling down using the down arrow to the "Command prompt only"

option and then pressing Enter from the Windows 98 Startup Menu:

http://www.mdgx.com/msdos.htm#MEN

C. OR from a Windows 98 SE Emergency/Bootup/Startup floppy/CD/DVD/USB/external

disc/stick.

Last step:

Copy back the files to their appropriate locations: %windir% [usually

C:\WINDOWS], %windir%\SYSTEM, %windir%\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS etc.

Run WIN or reboot one last time.

To learn which system files must be registered using the REGSVR32 command,

open C:\9!M\2G.INF into Notepad or better plain text editor/viewer and look at

the REGSVR32.EXE lines.

Then run this command from within Windows to register a system DLL or OCX

[example]:

%windir%\SYSTEM\REGSVR32 /S %windir%\SYSTEM\WHATEVER.DLL

If the respective REGSVR32 line you found inside 2G.INF contains the /I

switch, then run [example]:

%windir%\SYSTEM\REGSVR32 /I /S %windir%\SYSTEM\WHATEVER.DLL

Make sure you replace WHATEVER.DLL with appropriate file name AND extension.

Hope this helps.

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I ran into a problem with trying to install WMP10 on that box.  The files would download and extract, but the WMP Bonus Pack for XP would go through the install then say on the last screen that the installation failed.  Then, instead of bringing up the installer for WMP10, the batch file would do whatever it does then rebooted the computer.  It made the backup of WMP9 system files as you said, but the installation was never done.

Is this perhaps because I always install WMP7.1, WMP Bonus Pack for WMP7.1, and WMEncoder7.1 before installing WMP9?  Maybe the Bonus Pack for XP can't install if the 7.1 Bonus Pack is on the system?

I tried a couple of times and made sure to use the updated batch file on that thread (I always seem to lose where that is so that's why I'm posting here).  No go.  Then I tried to reinstall WMP9 in case something was done to it that would break stuff and the installer would make Windows bring up a Close Program Error saying that the installer caused a Stack Overflow.  So I tried uninstalling WMP9 and got the same Stack error.

Heh, so I tore apart the old slow machine (well, took it out and wrapped the board nicely) and put my KT7A into that box.  I don't think I'll try that WMP10 install yet.  I also usually install the WM9 codecs and WM10 codecs for the 6 and 7 players.  Maybe all that stuff has something to do with the Microsoft installer's failing?

I also use Partition Magic, but not when using one big partition of the whole drive.  I purchased the newer Norton version so I can play with bigger drives.  But do you know that FDISK is actually more compatible with the larger drives if its limited features will suffice for what you're doing?  FDISK will work with the whole drive whereas Partition Magic will leave about 30% unused to work with very large drives.

I have no idea why u get that WMP10 Bonus install error.

Did u first install WMP9 and then WMP10 in this order?

They are both required by the Bonus.

Also make sure both DirectX 9.0c:

http://www.mdgx.com/dx.htm#MDX

+ MS IE 6.0 SP1:

http://www.mdgx.com/toy.htm#IEX

are already installed.

As far as I'm aware WMP7 + WMP10 codecs should not interfere with Bonus.

Codecs upgrades do not modify WMP detection strings in the registry.

I did not try this with WMP7 Bonus pack, but it should not interfere.

Stack overflow related issues and how to solve them:

1. MinSPs=x

http://www.mdgx.com/lastweek.htm#MINSPS

2. Config.sys "STACKS=m,n"

http://www.mdgx.com/last2.htm#OVER

or see MEMORY.TXT, part of W95-11D.EXE [1.15 MB]:

http://www.mdgx.com/95.htm

About PM:

Do u use an older version of Partition Magic?

I use 8.0 Pro and did not encounter that issue.

I used it so far on five 120 GB disks [i don't have HDs larger than that].

PM8 is way more compatible/reliable with all MS/Linux/IBM OSes/drives out there than any DOS based fdisk [or similar] tool.

The only disadvantage is u have to pay for it. :(

Hope this helps.

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MDGX,

I noticed that last week on my computer that add/remove windows components was

In add remove programs was blank. Since I have 98SE2.01 and 98SETOME installed on my computer

I restored my system from a backup that I made last December. After this add/remove windows

components worked normally, I then installed 98SE2.01 and it continued to work normally.

When I installed 98SETOME (6/11/05) add/remove windows components was once again blank?

Has anyone else seen this? And do you have any ideas about this?

You got me, never heard of this error.

I've also installed 98SE2ME personally on more than 10 PCs, and never seen this.

IMO it must be related to some other software you've been using prior to installing 98SE2ME. :(

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Also noted, that when you click on ok in the blank add/remove windows components window the error window

rundll32

hit ignore to save your work or hit close

and when you hit close

rundll32 this program has performed an illeagle operation and will close

I'll go back and try removing programs this week end when I have more time.

;) Thanks. ;)

Edited by RJM

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Also noted, that when you click on ok in the blank add/remove windows components window the error window rundll32 hit ignore to save your work or hit close and when you hit close rundll32 this program has performed an illeagle operation and will close I'll go back and try removing programs this week end when I have more time.
That's more of the exact symptoms I had when using Regseeker to clean the registry. In fact Regseeker removes several apparently dead entries under the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID key. Those corrrespond to path to MS programs folders that do not exist on my machine such as Outlook, Movie Maker or Hyper Terminal that I do not use and I normally remove through the add-remove programs. I took me some time to figure which out of around 300 MS related entries containing the words Setup that Regseeker removes were responsable for the Add-Remove programs applet crash. As all registry cleaning engines work more or less the same (they mostly remove entries pointing to non-existant folders or files on your disks), you might have removed similar values under this key with another Registry cleaner you use if this key is not on that cleaner's exclude list.

I don't think removing any programs will cure your problem. I don't see how it could. Reinstalling windows on top of itself should but I am not 100% sure about it.

So I suggest you look into all backups generated by registry cleaning engines you use to see if there is any removed values under the above quoted key and restore them back to see the functionality of the Add-Remove Programs back after rebooting.

In case this is not possible (You haven't got backups anymore), I suggest you download RegDat

Regdat displays the contents of copies of the Win9x/Me Registry files System.dat, Classes.dat, and User.dat in a Regedit like interface (it can not deal with WinNT/2K/XP registry files). You can search for keys and values and export them. Also functions to compare the file with the current Registry are provided as well as tools to edit the file.

This is a slightly crippled nag shareware but is the only soft I know who can read and export data in REGEDIT4 format from .dat registry files (such as the ones routinely archived as rbxxx.cab as backup by scanregistry at startup and present in the C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUP folder) or .1st registry files (First copies of your registry generated during the Windows Setup process and normally present in your root drive as hidden and/or system file.)

You should compare the values under the key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID of your system.1st file (and which contains for sure all the right entries (provided it is the one generated by the initial Windows Setup and not one generated by a Windows reinstall, in which case the original .1st files are replaced by new ones reflecting the content of some of your old registry including possible errors)) with those in your registry and correct accordingly. You may not have this very usefull initial system.1st file anymore as many people delete it at some point or another of their bloat cleaning. If so you can look for the oldest scanregistry backup you've got but bearing in mind that this system.dat file might already contain the error.

As a title of example I give my own Setup\Varldid key ( As a title of example only as I am on ME and the values are slightly different in 98 and ME if only for the reason that Movie Maker does not exist on 98).

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup\VarLDID]
"28700"="C:\\PROGRA~1"
"28701"="C:\\Program Files"
"28702"="C:\\PROGRA~1"
"28710"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\ACCESS~1"
"28720"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\ACCESS~1\\HYPERT~1"
"28730"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1"
"28732"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1"
"28740"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1\\MICROS~1"
"28742"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\COMMON~1\\MICROS~1"
"29000"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1"
"29001"="C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer"
"29002"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1"
"29400"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\CONNEC~1"
"29401"="C:\\Program Files\\Internet Explorer\\Connection Wizard"
"29402"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\INTERN~1\\CONNEC~1"
"30000"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1"
"30001"="C:\\Program Files\\Outlook Express"
"30002"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\OUTLOO~1"
"30100"="C:\\WINDOWS\\system"
"30400"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\Plus!\\Themes"
"30801"="C:\\Program Files\\Windows Media Player"
"30900"="C:\\WINDOWS\\APPLIC~1"
"30901"="C:\\WINDOWS\\Application Data"
"30902"="C:\\WINDOWS\\APPLIC~1"
"30910"="C:\\WINDOWS\\APPLIC~1\\MICROS~1"
"30911"="C:\\WINDOWS\\Application Data\\Microsoft"
"30912"="C:\\WINDOWS\\APPLIC~1\\MICROS~1"
"29800"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\NETMEE~1"
"29801"="C:\\Program Files\\NetMeeting"
"29802"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\NETMEE~1"
"30600"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\MESSEN~1"
"30601"="C:\\Program Files\\Messenger"
"30602"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\MESSEN~1"
"30800"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\WINDOW~1"
"30802"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\WINDOW~1"
"30810"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\MOVIEM~1"
"30811"="C:\\Program Files\\Movie Maker"
"30812"="C:\\PROGRA~1\\MOVIEM~1"

If I remove any of those entries in the registry (even those pointing, as I have said above, to non existant locations such as the Outlook folder) the Add-Remove Programs applet crashes with aproximately the following error message : Rundll32 caused an error in SetupX, Rundll32 will now close.

It is only by restoring the deleted entry and rebooting the machine (A quick reload of explorer.exe will not do) that the full functionality of the applet is restored.

Maybe this will help you sort out your problem .

Edited by eidenk

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eidenk,

Thanks, I'll look into that. I was browsing the web and came accross the same

.reg file and I think I know what might have happened. You see I like to keep the size of my windows directory as small as possible and last year had used COA2 to move my program files directory to my E drive. I am wondering if some how they were changed back to my C drive. I will try moving my program files directory back when I get home tonight and start from there. Again thanks.

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