The feeling after using Firebox and Thunderbird (1

[Wai_Wai]

People recommend me to use Firefox and Thunderbird.

I tried today, and found they are not as good as I expect (Anyway, my little opinion though).

In this passage, I try to compare Firefox with Internet Explorer(IE).

[i will frequently update the post when I find some good/bad points]

[in the following, you will see the * beside the point. It means the point I value/concern]

[some points might be invalid since I just tried it for a few days]

Firefox

Strong Points

*- use far less system resources

*- tabbed browsing

- better bookmark organization (eg separator, can insert description)

- has bookmark toolbar folder

- has page info which tells a lot more about the website (eg links it has, security issues etc.)

*- simply right-click on bookmark and can open it as tab or new window

- popup disabling (NB: But I installed Google toolbar into IE. All annoying popups are blocked: Very effective. Not really a strong point to me)

- hackers will not target it so far and less security problems should be expected

Weak Points

- somewhat I feel Firefox is not really that secure. It is now secure maybe because of its low popularity (so hackers are not targeting it so far). Some reasons why I feel so:

*-- lack of enough security settings (In IE, see "Tools | Internet Options | Security".

Firefox is oversimplified to me.)

*-- lack of enough cookies settings In IE, see "Tools | Internet Options | Cookies"

Firefox is oversimplified to me.)

- lack of lots of other customization (which IE offers)

*- couldn't export cookies and settings etc.

*- cannot export favorites to other Internet browsers

*- Everytime when I open a new Firefox window, the window is displayed with its default setting. I would like to keep it displaying the same as the last window I set (eg with the same pane opended, instead of closing it by default)

*- language code auto-detect function is a bit worse than IE

*(new)- the find function is worse than IE

Eg1: No whole-word finding criterion.

If I type "am" in the "Find", I will search both "Ram", "ward", "am". I don't know any workaround to find a word which meet my criterion(ie I want to find "am" only, instead of other words.

Eg2: One time I searched a word in http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...+XP&btnG=Search. When it found the word, it just highlighted the word without bringing me to the screen where I can see the word. I just stayed in the orginal screen. Then I went to another website (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,9882,00.asp) and did another search. I worked again. Later I went back to the website (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=RAMDisk+XP&btnG=Search) . It worked fine again.

Something wonder:

- Firefox open source system

In my opinion, on one hand, it is true that good programmers can find out and fix a bug faster, but on the other had, bad programmers can find out and make use of the bug faster.

It is somewhat a kind of race - to see whether each party is faster.

[PS: Since I'm a computer id***, my viewpoint may be wrong.]

The above is just my little opinion.

Any comment would be very welcome.

Please introduce any other alternatives which can fulfil the points I concern.

[Wai_Wai]

Updated on 26 Jul 2004

Firefox troubles

It would be grateful if I could solve the following problems about Firefox:

- Everytime when I open a new Firefox window, is it possible for it to display the same as the last one I set, instead of its default layout? Eg: When I open a window with bookmark pane opened, another newly opened window can show the same (ie open with bookmark pane opened)

If you know any way or addon to do, please tell me.

- Is it possible to get "whole-word" find criterion in the Find (Ctrl+F) Function? If you know any way or addon to do, please tell me.

(eg If I type "am" in the "Find", I will search both "Ram", "ward", "am". I don't know any workaround to find a word which meet my criterion(ie I want to find "am" only, instead of other words.)

- As far as I know, Firebox still cannot provide "disabling" and/or "folder moving" for the following *without problems*:

- history

- cache

- cookies

- bookmark

[PS: I need to place it in another partition.]

Something wondering:

- will its "right click context menu" be forcefully disabled in some websites?

- does Firefox have some functions which can download the webpages and can read offline?

Any comment would be very welcome.

Please introduce any other alternatives which can fulfil the points I concern.

[Nologic]

Sorry I don't have time to go through every thing at this point (about to leave)

Turn around time for a ciritical bug is 2 days average (IE 1 week minium).

Security settings are mostly hidded, some one will probably get around to writing an extention some day to expose these settings...till then one would have to edit their chome file.

Cookie control has a extention written for it currently if I recall.

Exporting settings and such are done with a 3rd party app....but you could also go and copy these things your self from "documents and settings\*user name*\Application Data\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\default.qrs":

bookmarks.html

cookies.txt

formhistory.dat

history.dat

key3.db

prefs.js

signons.txt

user.js

hmm really you should browse the extention sites for Firefox and probably Thunderbird as well, most of what your taking issue with has been taken care of already....its just not part of Firefox mainline is all.

extension room

[Bâshrat the Sneaky]

FireFox

Weak Points

- somewhat I feel Firebox is not really that secure. It is now secure maybe because of its low popularity (so hackers are not targeting it so far). Some reasons why I feel so:

-- open source (I feel then hackers can get information more easily and so can expose security holes more easily)

==> WTF??? Why in God's name do you think it's a DISadvantage of being OpenSourceSoftware???? As EVERYBODY has acces to the source code, it gets more and more error-free. There aren't only malicious people who are reading the source code! How come do you think, everybody is calling it safer? Because everyone can report errors/security problems and they fix it ASAP!

*-- lack of enough security settings (In IE, see "Tools | Internet Options | Security".

Firebox is oversimplified to me.)

==> As Mozilla FireFox DOES NOT SUPPORT ACTIVEX, there's no need to disable it for untrusted sites...

*-- lack of enough cookies settings In IE, see "Tools | Internet Options | Cookies"

Firebox is oversimplified to me.)

==> Again: these settings ARE ALSO PRESENT in FireFox! (Tools>Options>Privacy>Cookies)

- lack of lots of other customization (which IE offers)

==> example? What do you think 'extensions' are for?

*- couldn't export bookmarks, cookies and settings etc.

==> To WHAT would you like to export it? And why aren't you complaining IE hasn't such an option??? It's the other browser who should be able to IMPORT settings from another browser

*- when I open a new window, it always return to the default layout

==> What do you mean?

*- language code auto-detect function is a bit worse than IE

==> No experiences with this one

EDIT: sorry for the aggresive tone, but I'm still furious of what happened today.... Don't take it personal

[Aaron]

Moved to Software Hangout Forum

[Solid as a rock]

ermmm... i first think firebox?? never heard... but i now understand u means fireFox.

i have used it one week and i dont like it also. why not? he cant handle java so i cant chat at MCN. the popupblokker is very good. i like that. firefox can add favorites from IE but if i add some thing to firefox favorites, IE cant add that.

i like to see firefox add the map favorites from %profileuser%\favorites and replace it when i make some changes (adding new url, remove some url) with firefox. sometimes i use IE and notice: damned the url i needed is in firefox.

but i dont say thunderbird and firefox are bad. i dont find them usefull for ME.

good point of firefox are:

*dutch language aviable

*strong popupblokker(better then the google addon IE)

*simple use

bad point:

*favorites backward placing unaviable

*cant chat at MCN(no support java)

*cant install flashplayer addon

[DarkPhoenix]

It's quite easy to get Firefox to support Java.. you just got to download a virtual machine. I'd suggest Sun's own VM, at http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_xpi.jsp

I don't know what the flashplayer add-on is.. I know that it's possible to use flash, but that can't be what you mean, I think.

[Solid as a rock]

It's quite easy to get Firefox to support Java.. you just got to download a virtual machine. I'd suggest Sun's own VM, at http://www.java.com/en/download/windows_xpi.jsp

I don't know what the flashplayer add-on is.. I know that it's possible to use flash, but that can't be what you mean, I think.

i have try that, i always use sun java and i cant login at the chatnetwork. when switching to IE it works immediality...

[RuNnaH]

Weak Points

- somewhat I feel Firebox is not really that secure. It is now secure maybe because of its low popularity (so hackers are not targeting it so far). Some reasons why I feel so:

-- open source (I feel then hackers can get information more easily and so can expose security holes more easily)

Don't try to see open source as a threat, but as an advantage. When a very critical bug was discovered that affected Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird, an update to fix this problem was available within 48 hours.

- lack of lots of other customization (which IE offers)

Could you give me an example? Firefox allows plugins (aka "extensions") and visual themes to be installed. A couple of popular extensions such as Adblock (advertisement blocker), All-in-one Gestures (allows you to control the browser with mouse gestures) or Web Developer are available.

*- couldn't export bookmarks, cookies and settings etc.

MozBackup can take care of that. It works for Moz/FF/TB.

*- when I open a new window, it always return to the default layout

Example?

*- language code auto-detect function is a bit worse than IE

I haven't noticed any problems with sites which use BIG5(HKSCS) or SHIFT_JIS. This also depends on the doctype that needs to be specified.

[MCT]

ive found this tool from flexbeta.net FireTweaker http://www.flexbeta.net/main/comments.php?...1&shownews=8405

its a firefox tweaking tool, maybe someone here will find it useful, i use opera as my primary browser, so i havent personally tested this

[Nologic]

SolidasRock -

There is a extension that will allow you to open pages with IE, this way if you wanted to you could use FireFox as default...then when you come across some site that has to be rendered in IE...you just go there then reload it in IE from the right click context menu.

Maybe not the ideal way to do things for you...but it is a option.

IE View

[Wai_Wai]

Weak Points

- somewhat I feel Firebox is not really that secure. It is now secure maybe because of its low popularity (so hackers are not targeting it so far). Some reasons why I feel so:

-- open source (I feel then hackers can get information more easily and so can expose security holes more easily)

Don't try to see open source as a threat, but as an advantage. When a very critical bug was discovered that affected Mozilla/Firefox/Thunderbird, an update to fix this problem was available within 48 hours.

- lack of lots of other customization (which IE offers)

Could you give me an example? Firefox allows plugins (aka "extensions") and visual themes to be installed. A couple of popular extensions such as Adblock (advertisement blocker), All-in-one Gestures (allows you to control the browser with mouse gestures) or Web Developer are available.

*- couldn't export bookmarks, cookies and settings etc.

MozBackup can take care of that. It works for Moz/FF/TB.

*- when I open a new window, it always return to the default layout

Example?

*- language code auto-detect function is a bit worse than IE

I haven't noticed any problems with sites which use BIG5(HKSCS) or SHIFT_JIS. This also depends on the doctype that needs to be specified.

- lack of lots of other customization (which IE offers)

Could you give me an example? Firefox allows plugins (aka "extensions") and visual themes to be installed. A couple of popular extensions such as Adblock (advertisement blocker), All-in-one Gestures (allows you to control the browser with mouse gestures) or Web Developer are available.

I missed the point that it has lots of extensions.

so doesn't a valid point now.

[Aubs_UK]

If people could only spend 5-10 mins going through the help, esp. when it's a new program, to see what functionality it has .

I know that's asking a lot!

[Solid as a rock]

If people could only spend 5-10 mins going through the help, esp. when it's a new program, to see what functionality it has  .

I know that's asking a lot! 

esp? where do u see esp talking? by the way i have used it a week.... but switching between 2 browsers i dont like that.

[Solid as a rock]

SolidasRock -

There is a extension that will allow you to open pages with IE, this way if you wanted to you could use FireFox as default...then when you come across some site that has to be rendered in IE...you just go there then reload it in IE from the right click context menu.

Maybe not the ideal way to do things for you...but it is a option.

IE View

i dont like switching. too much work to work with 2 browsers