sunryze Posted January 12, 2021 Posted January 12, 2021 Hey, So my hardware is pretty modern (i7 9700K, Z370, 5700XT) and I am wondering if I would get a better experience out of Windows 7 with an older chipset or if just keeping it running with wufuc would work fine. Any suggestions?
Tripredacus Posted January 12, 2021 Posted January 12, 2021 It really depends on the software you are using. If you are running any of the current, always-online type software programs, you are eventually going to run into the situation where the software updates and will cease to function. And that will have more impact on your experience than anything to do with your hardware. I can't speak on wufuc. I am in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp, which means not installing Windows or driver updates unless required.
sunryze Posted January 12, 2021 Author Posted January 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, Tripredacus said: It really depends on the software you are using. If you are running any of the current, always-online type software programs, you are eventually going to run into the situation where the software updates and will cease to function. And that will have more impact on your experience than anything to do with your hardware. I can't speak on wufuc. I am in the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" camp, which means not installing Windows or driver updates unless required. I do use a good amount of modern ones (Discord, Steam, Oculus) so some of them do run a little weird. Discord will probably just not recieve any more updates, but still work, just like the older clients for mobile. Steam will probably stop getting updates but keep working, but Oculus already screws you over. They let you install it and use it, but purposefully break certain things.
Tripredacus Posted January 12, 2021 Posted January 12, 2021 For your Steam example, that is not what you should expect. When they released their update that didn't support XP, the Steam clients on XP systems updated to that, effectively locking people out of their game library.
sunryze Posted February 1, 2021 Author Posted February 1, 2021 Everything works fine, but definitely the modern ones are not optimized. I can see that Steam does not work on XP anymore (the older client) and since that client was from 2019, 5 years after XP EOL, we could definitely see Windows 7 hitting the roadblock of things dropping out in 2025-2026. Steam already has issues letting itself close when logging off / shutting down, so I have to change the non-responsive timeout to a lower amount in order to get Windows to shut down faster. This does not happen when Steam is already closed. Discord runs, but I can definitely tell that it is fighting DWM with aero (latency with certain UI elements and such) as well as Oculus which purposefully restricts features even though they will most likely still work on 7. Other than those apps, everything works fine even on higher end hardware. Windows 10 though as much hate as it gets is definitely more optimized for that hardware, but not saying that 7 won't run well. Windows 7 definitely runs really well on hardware like this (WEI 7.9).
Tripredacus Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 23 hours ago, Tonny52 said: Steam already has issues letting itself close when logging off / shutting down I've actually seen this myself. When this happens, you can find in event viewer that Steam.exe vetoes the Shutdown request! I just make sure to exit Steam before shutting down.
sunryze Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Tripredacus said: I've actually seen this myself. When this happens, you can find in event viewer that Steam.exe vetoes the Shutdown request! I just make sure to exit Steam before shutting down. I could possibly go into Task Scheduler and have a task in there that terminates steam forcefully, and hope that it runs before the shutdown request of apps.
Nokiamies Posted February 16, 2021 Posted February 16, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 6:31 PM, Tonny52 said: I could possibly go into Task Scheduler and have a task in there that terminates steam forcefully, and hope that it runs before the shutdown request of apps. I use desktop shortcut to shutdown my computer that taskkills steam automatically then shut pc down. Same problem as on you, I tried force app hung time down, but it was not fixing issue. It eventually turns off otherwise but takes few minutes.
Nokiamies Posted February 16, 2021 Posted February 16, 2021 On 1/12/2021 at 7:41 AM, Tonny52 said: Hey, So my hardware is pretty modern (i7 9700K, Z370, 5700XT) and I am wondering if I would get a better experience out of Windows 7 with an older chipset or if just keeping it running with wufuc would work fine. Any suggestions? You might want disable some of power management options like pci power saving or you may experience blackscreening. I turned off all power saving could and problem went away
sunryze Posted February 16, 2021 Author Posted February 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said: You might want disable some of power management options like pci power saving or you may experience blackscreening. I turned off all power saving could and problem went away Oddly enough, back when this was happening it was mainly caused by my old CPU. I got the 9700K and it was actually not drawing as much power idle as the 8400.
Nokiamies Posted February 16, 2021 Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tonny52 said: Oddly enough, back when this was happening it was mainly caused by my old CPU. I got the 9700K and it was actually not drawing as much power idle as the 8400. They may have had corrected issue on newer processors. I have only played with windows 7 up to AMD Ryzen 2xxx series and Intel Coffee lake cpu only which both had same issue so cannot say for sure Edited February 16, 2021 by Mr.Scienceman2000
sunryze Posted February 17, 2021 Author Posted February 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said: They may have had corrected issue on newer processors. I have only played with windows 7 up to AMD Ryzen 2xxx series and Intel Coffee lake cpu only which both had same issue so cannot say for sure Unrelated, but one thing I have which really isn't Windows 7 or 10's fault, its the fault of my decision making. I want to like Windows 10, I really do and I have tried to in the last 5/6 years of using it as my main OS. (Moved to it 2 days after the RTM release). I've used every version of the OS from 1507 to the latest insiders and honestly when i'm not caring, it works fine. But when I started caring (around late 2018) I started hating it more and more as the releases go by and it got to a point where I just wiped Windows 10 from my PC and installed 7 (back in January). 10 has a few features I really like, such as better multi-monitor support (taskbars) and generally a more optimized DWM, plus I prefer fluent over aero (I like the higher amount of blur, but aero is fine too). Windows 7 100% works fine on my PC, but I also know that Windows 10 is the latest, gets updates, and has a larger user base. Oddly, the things that make me choose an OS is the amount of market-share. I used 1903 from release to September of last year, until I upgraded because I realized that most Windows 10 computers were running 2004. A weird issue that I have where I want to use whatever most people use. Same with trying Linux. The reason I didn't care about Windows 10 from 2015-2018 was because I just used my PC. I will give it that, it is very unnoticeable when you just want to sit down and get some work done. I never had it interrupt me or anything. I mainly just used it to play games until I started getting more and more into technology where I realized how poorly designed it was. Computing nowadays has less and less advanced users. The advanced OSes now is Windows 7 and Linux. Windows 10 is clearly not designed to be an OS for the advanced tech-savvy users. After realizing this, I wished I stayed with 7 instead of updating to 10 in 2015. I've also been locked into the Windows 10 ecosystem too. The only reason I use Windows 7 now and like it is because I grew up with it. The best times in my life (early - mid 2010s) was spent with Windows 7. The memories I have with Windows 10 are entirely sour starting in 2018. Before then, I had good times with 1703 and older. That is just a mental image. There is actual reasoning with how Windows 7 is still better, 12 years later. It oddly still supports all apps, is still fast, and can still run on computers made 12 years later. It's a more unified and simple OS with less back and forth. I will not say consistent; every version of Windows is inconsistent. 10 is fairly consistent for its release time, but also has a fair bit of dated functions. I usually pick an OS for "if it works and do I like it". The times where I didn't repeatedly think about what I was running was nice, really, really nice. September to December 2020 I stopped caring and the relief was nice, until I got right back into failing at decision making what I should use, because its a battle of nostalgia vs what ACTUALLY is useful. Windows 10 as I said earlier, works for the majority of people. The majority of users don't care or notice anything weird. One of my teachers is still running 1709 and doesn't notice. Meanwhile, even using 1903 and knowing market-share about it makes me want to go to 2004 or higher. Windows 7 same way, I like using it but knowing market-share completely demolishes my motivation to use it. In another case, I could just be overthinking this over just a simple computer OS. Microsoft made it harder than it needs to be. I care about my privacy for apps on my computer. As far as web browsing, I could care less. I just don't want MS looking through my files and stuff like that. I think I have restored my Windows 10 and 7 image of my PC (all apps installed) probably 2 times a day in the last 3 months because I can't choose. They both have strong pros and cons, and in a situation like this where I don't want to dual boot, It's a hard decision to make.
Nokiamies Posted February 17, 2021 Posted February 17, 2021 35 minutes ago, Tonny52 said: Unrelated, but one thing I have which really isn't Windows 7 or 10's fault, its the fault of my decision making. I want to like Windows 10, I really do and I have tried to in the last 5/6 years of using it as my main OS. (Moved to it 2 days after the RTM release). I've used every version of the OS from 1507 to the latest insiders and honestly when i'm not caring, it works fine. But when I started caring (around late 2018) I started hating it more and more as the releases go by and it got to a point where I just wiped Windows 10 from my PC and installed 7 (back in January). 10 has a few features I really like, such as better multi-monitor support (taskbars) and generally a more optimized DWM, plus I prefer fluent over aero (I like the higher amount of blur, but aero is fine too). Windows 7 100% works fine on my PC, but I also know that Windows 10 is the latest, gets updates, and has a larger user base. Oddly, the things that make me choose an OS is the amount of market-share. I used 1903 from release to September of last year, until I upgraded because I realized that most Windows 10 computers were running 2004. A weird issue that I have where I want to use whatever most people use. Same with trying Linux. The reason I didn't care about Windows 10 from 2015-2018 was because I just used my PC. I will give it that, it is very unnoticeable when you just want to sit down and get some work done. I never had it interrupt me or anything. I mainly just used it to play games until I started getting more and more into technology where I realized how poorly designed it was. Computing nowadays has less and less advanced users. The advanced OSes now is Windows 7 and Linux. Windows 10 is clearly not designed to be an OS for the advanced tech-savvy users. After realizing this, I wished I stayed with 7 instead of updating to 10 in 2015. I've also been locked into the Windows 10 ecosystem too. The only reason I use Windows 7 now and like it is because I grew up with it. The best times in my life (early - mid 2010s) was spent with Windows 7. The memories I have with Windows 10 are entirely sour starting in 2018. Before then, I had good times with 1703 and older. That is just a mental image. There is actual reasoning with how Windows 7 is still better, 12 years later. It oddly still supports all apps, is still fast, and can still run on computers made 12 years later. It's a more unified and simple OS with less back and forth. I will not say consistent; every version of Windows is inconsistent. 10 is fairly consistent for its release time, but also has a fair bit of dated functions. I usually pick an OS for "if it works and do I like it". The times where I didn't repeatedly think about what I was running was nice, really, really nice. September to December 2020 I stopped caring and the relief was nice, until I got right back into failing at decision making what I should use, because its a battle of nostalgia vs what ACTUALLY is useful. Windows 10 as I said earlier, works for the majority of people. The majority of users don't care or notice anything weird. One of my teachers is still running 1709 and doesn't notice. Meanwhile, even using 1903 and knowing market-share about it makes me want to go to 2004 or higher. Windows 7 same way, I like using it but knowing market-share completely demolishes my motivation to use it. In another case, I could just be overthinking this over just a simple computer OS. Microsoft made it harder than it needs to be. I care about my privacy for apps on my computer. As far as web browsing, I could care less. I just don't want MS looking through my files and stuff like that. I think I have restored my Windows 10 and 7 image of my PC (all apps installed) probably 2 times a day in the last 3 months because I can't choose. They both have strong pros and cons, and in a situation like this where I don't want to dual boot, It's a hard decision to make. Sounds exactly my problem. I really tried enjoy using win10 as main os but kept having issues constantly. I do not want os force updates tom. I do not want worry every system update breaking apps or drivers. I got few laptops that are unable run win10 properly anymore due drivers. Also win10 is mess on changing settings. On windows 7 I had control panel (basic settings) and Group policy editor (advanced windows/app settings). Win10 got two control panel and need change between them and whole UI feels like touch screen, it got ads. I downgraded windows 7 and never looked back again I have desired run windows 7 as long as can which is quite long considering even windows 95 is somewhat usable today with some tweaking despite being over 25 years old. I use firefox esr version since will likely recieve updates longer than rapid release. I got linux mint on dualboot with it. Nothing wrong on using windows 7 or older. You do not need always get "the latest and greatest" os. And windows 7 is useful still atleast on me. I got windows 10 on non networked vm for some purposes so no need dualboot or restore image For security side of things most sayings about viruses will flood win7 system are FUD. I am not saying it is risk free but viruses wont just attack since todays security is made on network level. Back in XP days ADSL/ISDN/Dialup operators gave every computer public IP address. That increased risk of attack by lot and I have gotten lot of worms. Nowadays you many times wont even get one public IP (behind operator level NAT many times) and generally you are behind router firewall and NAT. You just need good network firewall between your local area network and internet. Most modern routers got sufficent ones and something like openwrt or pfsense will improve it a lot. Also disable router remote management, disable UPNP, disable VPS for wifi and change wifi and admin panel passwords and you are good to go. I also got pihole that got constantly updating blacklist of malicious domains. And for browser security I use firefox with ublock origin and noscript. Noscript saved me many times from attacks. If want harden on os level I would use Comodo antivirus HIPS feature or OSarmor (only if you know or want learn how setup process rules). Also keep backup of important files on external hdd. Then most important part of security is use of common sense. No av or update will protect from end user mistakes always. All that being said, if you want keep windows 7 go ahead and keep it. You are one of many users and atleast on MSFN you will get help if get issues with it. Windows 7 will have long life on power users who are not afraid to tweak their OS. 1
sunryze Posted February 17, 2021 Author Posted February 17, 2021 7 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said: Sounds exactly my problem. I really tried enjoy using win10 as main os but kept having issues constantly. I do not want os force updates tom. I do not want worry every system update breaking apps or drivers. I got few laptops that are unable run win10 properly anymore due drivers. Also win10 is mess on changing settings. On windows 7 I had control panel (basic settings) and Group policy editor (advanced windows/app settings). Win10 got two control panel and need change between them and whole UI feels like touch screen, it got ads. I downgraded windows 7 and never looked back again I have desired run windows 7 as long as can which is quite long considering even windows 95 is somewhat usable today with some tweaking despite being over 25 years old. I use firefox esr version since will likely recieve updates longer than rapid release. I got linux mint on dualboot with it. Nothing wrong on using windows 7 or older. You do not need always get "the latest and greatest" os. And windows 7 is useful still atleast on me. I got windows 10 on non networked vm for some purposes so no need dualboot or restore image For security side of things most sayings about viruses will flood win7 system are FUD. I am not saying it is risk free but viruses wont just attack since todays security is made on network level. Back in XP days ADSL/ISDN/Dialup operators gave every computer public IP address. That increased risk of attack by lot and I have gotten lot of worms. Nowadays you many times wont even get one public IP (behind operator level NAT many times) and generally you are behind router firewall and NAT. You just need good network firewall between your local area network and internet. Most modern routers got sufficent ones and something like openwrt or pfsense will improve it a lot. Also disable router remote management, disable UPNP, disable VPS for wifi and change wifi and admin panel passwords and you are good to go. I also got pihole that got constantly updating blacklist of malicious domains. And for browser security I use firefox with ublock origin and noscript. Noscript saved me many times from attacks. If want harden on os level I would use Comodo antivirus HIPS feature or OSarmor (only if you know or want learn how setup process rules). Also keep backup of important files on external hdd. Then most important part of security is use of common sense. No av or update will protect from end user mistakes always. All that being said, if you want keep windows 7 go ahead and keep it. You are one of many users and atleast on MSFN you will get help if get issues with it. Windows 7 will have long life on power users who are not afraid to tweak their OS. I actually use pfSense myself, but stopped using Pihole recently after it was acting up a little with my ads (probably could of just tweaked the list).
sunryze Posted February 17, 2021 Author Posted February 17, 2021 A little off topic again, but what would be the best performant GPU that Windows 7 would support well?
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