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ZaPbUzZ

windows 98se on 2 disk hardware raid 0

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7 hours ago, jaclaz said:

No, it wasn't, not Cluster Size, not in BIOS.

Maybe they meant the RAID controller BIOS? Still, it won't be cluster size, more likely to be stripe size, unless the controller offers to format the newly created volume...

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On 5/18/2020 at 3:10 AM, RainyShadow said:

Maybe they meant the RAID controller BIOS? Still, it won't be cluster size, more likely to be stripe size, unless the controller offers to format the newly created volume...

ah got it.

so my wrong assumption the RAID controller BIOS option is cluster size when its actually stripe size. cool.

That makes sense that windows wouldn't format 32k saying too much waste lol.

Well I learned something thankyou!

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After receiving a defective socket 748 motherboard from eBay in process of its return I can do some benchmark tests.

A sector is a segment of that circle. A cluster is a bunch of sectors treated as the smallest unit of storage in a file system in software - file system drivers read and write clusters at a time. A block is an arbitrary sized chunk of data that is the actual minimum amount of data that can be written on a disk.

But with a stripe on top 2 40gb disks in RAID 0 what would be the ideal stripe size and cluster size of the disk format for best performance?

I would assume smaller clusters for smaller files and a recommendation for running windows on a RAID but what of stripe? would stripe be best in similar or same size as clusters or perhaps there'd be a mathematical solution like a scale disk size, cluster size, stripe size? 

 

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7 hours ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

A sector is a segment of that circle.

WHICH circle? :w00t:

7 hours ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

A cluster is a bunch of sectors treated as the smallest unit of storage in a file system in software - file system drivers read and write clusters at a time.

Almost :) a cluster is a bunch of sectors addressed as the smallest unit of storage in a file system. What the file system driver does may depend on a number of factors, do not assume too much.

7 hours ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

A block is an arbitrary sized chunk of data that is the actual minimum amount of data that can be written on a disk.

Not really a block ( or sector) is the minimal addressable unit on device, it is not arbitrary at all, it is hardcoded in either the device or in its driver, for all it matters its size is normally 512 bytes but can be also 4096 bytes (newer disks). Again, do not assume too much, you can write a single byte to disk just fine.

8 hours ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

But with a stripe on top 2 40gb disks in RAID 0 what would be the ideal stripe size and cluster size of the disk format for best performance?

I would assume smaller clusters for smaller files and a recommendation for running windows on a RAID but what of stripe? would stripe be best in similar or same size as clusters or perhaps there'd be a mathematical solution like a scale disk size, cluster size, stripe size? 

This is irrelevant (the two together).

The stripe size is always a multiple of clusters, whilst stripe size may (marginally) matter for performance in a RAID 0, 2, 3, 4. 5, etc. i.e. in "striped" sets, (and it has no influence on Raid 1), it is a separate parameter from cluster size, which should be chosen as the "best possible" for the data to be managed independently from stripe size.

About stripe size:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/RAID-SCALING-CHARTS,1735-4.html

The rule of the thumb is however that the larger the stripe size, the faster the data transfer is, but this may also depend on the specific (software or hardware) setup.

About cluster size, more or less the same rule of the thumb applies, the larger the cluster size, the faster the data transfer will be BUT in the case of smaller files there will be more "slack" space (wasted space), so you need a compromise.

Since you are limited to FAT32 AND you have volume >32 GB you are "forced" to have cluster size 32K (and no, don't think that making two volumes with cluster size 16KB will change anything in a noticeable amount, it will be only very slightly slower).

Then for stripe size, use the largest you are allowed to.

jaclaz

 

 

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2 hours ago, jaclaz said:

WHICH circle? :w00t:

Almost :) a cluster is a bunch of sectors addressed as the smallest unit of storage in a file system. What the file system driver does may depend on a number of factors, do not assume too much.

Not really a block ( or sector) is the minimal addressable unit on device, it is not arbitrary at all, it is hardcoded in either the device or in its driver, for all it matters its size is normally 512 bytes but can be also 4096 bytes (newer disks). Again, do not assume too much, you can write a single byte to disk just fine.

This is irrelevant (the two together).

The stripe size is always a multiple of clusters, whilst stripe size may (marginally) matter for performance in a RAID 0, 2, 3, 4. 5, etc. i.e. in "striped" sets, (and it has no influence on Raid 1), it is a separate parameter from cluster size, which should be chosen as the "best possible" for the data to be managed independently from stripe size.

About stripe size:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/RAID-SCALING-CHARTS,1735-4.html

The rule of the thumb is however that the larger the stripe size, the faster the data transfer is, but this may also depend on the specific (software or hardware) setup.

About cluster size, more or less the same rule of the thumb applies, the larger the cluster size, the faster the data transfer will be BUT in the case of smaller files there will be more "slack" space (wasted space), so you need a compromise.

Since you are limited to FAT32 AND you have volume >32 GB you are "forced" to have cluster size 32K (and no, don't think that making two volumes with cluster size 16KB will change anything in a noticeable amount, it will be only very slightly slower).

Then for stripe size, use the largest you are allowed to.

jaclaz

 

 

The circle is an expression of the circle shape of the disk platter i would assume but i didn't include the link to where i got it from because sometimes i shamelessly copy stuff and realize I didn't edit enough.
This information has decreased how shallow my understanding of RAID itself functions the only thing is I can't use windows 98se on the test machine it would be a waste of a dual processor system I am however using it until my proper working motherboard arrives.

Yes 32k stripe  runs nicely but remains to be seen how useful it is to boot from if its possible. 

 

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1 hour ago, ZaPbUzZ said:

The circle is an expression of the circle shape of the disk platter 

Good :), which is actually called "track".

And right when you think you got the concepts right :) let me confuse you :w00t: :ph34r: with geometry and the way it is "shielded" by the disk hardware:

https://blog.stuffedcow.net/2019/09/hard-disk-geometry-microbenchmarking/

jaclaz

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20 minutes ago, RainyShadow said:

@jaclaz

Let me confuse you a bit... Do you have Linux on your hard disks?

:buehehe:

I guess you will need something newer if your intention is to confuse (maybe you meant surprise?) me. 

That Sprites Mod hack is what ? 2013? :unsure:, and anyway is very little confusing, as a matter of fact (like BTW most of the things written by Jeroen Domburg) it is extremely simple and can be followed relatively easily.

jaclaz 

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