How to Match USB Ports & Controllers?

[dencorso]

I should report that it took some persuading, but I finally got permission to plug in the external HDD -- and we got the same old result as on my PC.

Good news! There is nothing wrong with your machine. Its southbrige is working as it should. All is well!

Bad news: Something *IS* quite wrong with your external HDD. It's controller is not behaving as it should!

I'd buy another and backup all that is in your external HDD (or, at least, all that's important) before it fails further...

True, we haven't conclusively excluded the cable, but why take any chances?

BTW, which, exactly, is the manufacturer and model of your external HDD?

[JorgeA]

Both the females (human and dog) never actually knew the truth.... but you know how women are, notwithstanding the dog's responsability for the accident, she "sensed" something and I was told NOT to connect anything anyway, EVER AGAIN...

jaclaz

jaclaz,

In my experience, female intuition can "sniff out" more truth than all our PC system utilities put together...

Sometimes I wish I could get into that CPU of hers, and find out just what is going on in there! But then I think, that would remove the mystique.

--JorgeA

dencorso,

Well, am I glad that I posted with this question! That HDD is my main backup drive. In fact, that's where I put the Win98FE tower's data files back when I bought the Vista PC. And now I have multiple sets of Vista backups in there too.

The HDD is a 320GB Signature Mini by SimpleTech. In Black Cherry.

About a year ago, my front USB ports would suddenly stop working after the computer had been turned on for a while, and the HDD was no longer recognized till I cycled the power. The problem ended when I adjusted the power settings for those ports, under Properties, to never go offline. (I just clicked on all of them, to make sure I got the front ones.) Before I knew that, though, I called SimpleTech's tech support line. Actually ended up calling a couple of times in the space of 2-3 months. Both times I got the same grouchy guy who seemed intent on blaming everything on the PC's "chipset." But then I solved (or masked) the problem by adjusting the power settings, and there were no more issues till this 1.1/2.0 thing.

The SigMini does carry a three-year warranty. But the instructions for return are so difficult (see also the "acceptable packaging" page) that it hardly seems worth the trouble.

Maybe this will also get me to implement a better backup plan. I never was very happy with their ArcSoft backup program, or Microsoft's for that matter -- there is too little flexibility with respect to the selection of files to back up: No, I do NOT necessarily want to back up EVERY single .doc file on my computer, or EVERY .mp3 file! By making these programs "simple" to use, they end up making them more difficult, IMHO.

OTOH, I'm never sure what important file *types* might not be getting backed up because I didn't select them; and if possible I would also like to back up my applications so that I don't have to reinstall everything from scratch in case of a catastrophic HDD failure. Moreover, I'm not comfortable with having the "Factory Image" partition on the same physical internal HDD as my C: drive -- what if the drive itself gets fried, then the "Factory Image" volume also gets fried and I'm SOL. So I'm considering one of those new Seagate HDDs that offers to do a "complete system backup" and to keep everything up to date on a continuous basis.

Thank you for following up on my motherboard's specs, the link was very informative!

--JorgeA

Edited July 21, 2010 by puntoMX

[JorgeA]

Here's what you have to do: the headers are in a single row on the lowermost part of the motherboard, just below the PCI connector. They have lables written in white fields, which are illegible in this photo (but the white fields are visible). Open the case read those labels and report. You can ignore any header that has a connector plugged in it. Only the unconnected headers interest us. I'm quite sure those two white headers, with two rows of 5 pins (of which one pin is missing) are USB headers, but probably the two black headers next to them also are and I bet they are used for the Pocket Media and the Card Reader. I bet one of the white connectors will be unused and the other is the one serving the two front USB ports. I'm think the 1394a header is the somewhat higher red header that is to the left of the two PCI-e x1 connectors, just about between them (so it's not shown in the attached picture snippet), but I may be wrong. That is up to you to find out. Take care not to disconnect anything, you just want to take a peek, at the moment, nothing more. A thin hand lantern is most useful to help on your task. Good luck!

dencorso,

I opened up the PC case today, and here's what I found, besides a couple of dust bunnies:

The six USB headers near the edge of the motherboard are numbered as follows, from left to right as we look at the photo you uploaded --

F_USB5 F_USB6 F_USB3 F_USB4 F_USB2 F_USB1

The four on the left look exactly as they do in the photo. There is nothing connected to them.

As for the last two connectors on the right -- like the ones in the picture, they each have two rows of holes for wires, but only the lower row is white, while the upper row is black like the first four USB headers.

The upper row of F_USB2 is connected to the Pocket Media Drive, while the lower row connects to the built-in card reader.

F_USB1 is connected to the front USB ports, one row for each.

The headers for the four USB ports in the rear are covered by a metal bracket, and I can't see what's going on with them.

You were right about the red 1394a header -- the wire runs across the motherboard, from the front all the way to the back. The rear 1394 is covered by the same bracket as the rear USB headers.

The connector going into F_USB2 was slightly loose; the one for F_USB1 was clearly not pushed all the way in, sitting at a diagonal angle to the plane of the motherboard, almost disconnected. I carefully pushed them both in.

Let me know what you glean from all this. It'll be interesting to find out.

--JorgeA

Edited July 18, 2010 by JorgeA

[dencorso]

The six USB headers near the edge of the motherboard are numbered as follows, from left to right as we look at the photo you uploaded --

F_USB5 F_USB6 F_USB3 F_USB4 F_USB2 F_USB1

The four on the left look exactly as they do in the photo. There is nothing connected to them.

This means you have four (not two as I first thought) additional unused potential USB ports. Namely F_USB5, F_USB6, F_USB3 and F_USB4. Potential, because it would be necessary to connect the headers to actual ports (say, in a bracket) to put them to use. This sums up to 12, so the 1394a ports are being controlled through an aditional unnamed chip, that must be connected to the southbridge (the ICH9R) via the PCI bus, and not directly by it.

If you decide to reclaim them and put them to use, it'll be necessary to establish their pinout, so it would help a lot if you had an inexpensive multimeter handy. The main task consists in finding out which is the +5V pin and which is the ground. If you're interested, I'll elaborate on it.

BTW, I'd say a 750 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go might suit you perfectly as your new back-up external HDD, IMHO...

Now, after you're safely backed up, then we can try to troubleshoot, and perhaps recover the 2.0 ability of your current Hitachi drive, but I think we'd better not mess with it meanwhile.

[JorgeA]

dencorso,

This means you have four (not two as I first thought) additional unused potential USB ports.

Wow!

If you decide to reclaim them and put them to use, it'll be necessary to establish their pinout, so it would help a lot if you had an inexpensive multimeter handy. The main task consists in finding out which is the +5V pin and which is the ground. If you're interested, I'll elaborate on it.

This gives me the excuse I'd been looking for to get a multimeter. And for sure, I am interested!

How would one make available the four potential new USB ports -- would they be attached to a card in an expansion slot that would then present new rear ports?

BTW, I'd say a 750 GB Seagate FreeAgent Go might suit you perfectly as your new back-up external HDD, IMHO...

How about a 1TB Seagate WS110 Black Armor external HDD offering full-system automatic continuous backup and bare metal restore? There was a good deal on them. B)

It might take me a couple of days to get the multimeter. (My wife already thinks I spend too much on electronics.) What features should I be looking for in the device, and what features will add unnecessarily to the price?

Thanks very much, this is getting exciting.

One good thing about being out of warranty is that I no longer have to worry about voiding the warranty by making changes to the PC.

--JorgeA

[dencorso]

The new USB ports would be attached either to one (or two) rear bay-bracket(s) or to a front-panel blind drive-placeholder, if there is one such placeholder still free.

Any El-Cheapo Multimeter will do. This is the one I use. It has good enough voltmeter and ohmmeter capabilities, which is all we'll need, and some more nice capabilities, and a very nice price.

BTW, I'll move this thread to the hardware forum now, I ought to have done it much sooner, already.

And yes, a 1TB Seagate WS110 Black Armor seems quite good. Go for it! :

[JorgeA]

dencorso,

Thanks for the endorsement for the Black Armor, I'll get it.

The multimeter -- will I need any accessories to go along with it? (Unbelievable price on Amazon, BTW.) When I clicked on the link, Amazon also offered me a clip test lead set, among oher things.

Now that we're in a new neighborhood (the hardware forum), I'll walk around and see what there is. For some reason I'd never wandered into this section before.

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

For some reason I'd never wandered into this section before.

Wait a minute...

You need a helmet AND insulating gloves to be allowed here....

BTW, El-Cheaper:

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/DT830BMinif.htm

jaclaz

Edited July 18, 2010 by jaclaz

[JorgeA]

BTW, El-Cheaper:

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/DT830BMinif.htm

Whoa, incredible! I get the feeling that if I shop hard enough, I might find somebody who'll pay ME to accept their multimeter!

Wait a minute...

You need a helmet AND insulating gloves to be allowed here....

So, can I get those through Amazon.com, too?

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

Whoa, incredible! I get the feeling that if I shop hard enough, I might find somebody who'll pay ME to accept their multimeter!

Don't forget to ask for a complimentary weekend in Las Vegas for two people, while you are at it.

jaclaz

[dencorso]

The multimeter -- will I need any accessories to go along with it?

Not really. It comes complete with a pair of probe points. I guess it'll be enough.

However, you might ask for bundled chips for a full casino night... After all gambling at no expense is a must, too.

[JorgeA]

Thanks, dencorso!

I'll get back to you to pick up on this when I get the multimeter. (I may order it for cheap, in which case it'll take a few days to arrive in the mail, or I might just run out to the store and get one for more money, but have it right away.)

BTW, in case it helps the diagnostics -- tonight I ran a regular backup on the Signature Mini, and left it connected for a couple of hours afterward. When I picked it up to disconnect, the front end near where the AC adapter cable would go (I don't use one) felt VERY hot to the touch.

@jaclaz: LOL -- wouldn't that be nice!

--JorgeA

[dencorso]

Meanwhile, get yourself also a piece of electric wire 6-8 in. long. One of the insulated conductors from inside the garden-variety 8-conductor ethernet cable would be perfect, but any other similar cable will do. What we want with this is to use the plastic tubing insulator without the internal metal conductor, to insulate securely three of the four conductors in the USB headers, in order for you to safely measure the remaining one, without the risk of short-circuiting it with the one(s) next to it, for they are much thinner than the multimeters probe-points, and we dont want to take any chances, now, do we?

[puntoMX]

Now, that was a long read .

So, if it's not the OS that is messing up the things (Jaclaz suggested it I saw), than is must be indeed something with the voltage. It's not needed to check every pin directly, I would just start to check the 5VSB on the PSU:

Disconnect the PSU form every thing inside the PC and connect pin PS_ON# (The only green that you will have) and the COM pin (any black line) next to it to power up the PSU. Check voltage over pin 5VSB and any COM pin.

I think that the USB got overloaded many times before. I have seen this on many i845 chipset based systems, especial from Dell and HP, and I would not rule out that it could happen on other chipsets too. On older PSUs the 5VSB would be rated at 2.0A and on newer CPUs it would be rated at 2.5A (current standard). If you have another PSU, just plug that one in to see what it does.

[JorgeA]

Meanwhile, get yourself also a piece of electric wire 6-8 in. long. One of the insulated conductors from inside the garden-variety 8-conductor ethernet cable would be perfect, but any other similar cable will do. What we want with this is to use the plastic tubing insulator without the internal metal conductor, to inulate securely three of the four conductors in the USB headers, in order for you to safely measure the remaining one, without the risk of short-circuiting it with the one(s) next to it, for thye are much thinner than the multimeters probe-points, and we dont want to take any chances, now, do we?

dencorso,

Thanks for the tip.

I have a multimeter.

Not sure what kind of wire I should be looking to get. In this area I know less than nothing. Should I just buy like a 3-foot Ethernet cable and open it up?

FWIW, I do have a steady hand...

--JorgeA

puntoMX,

Great to meet you.

Wow, I have a Developer and two Super Moderators helping with this! Who could ask for better than that?

But I have a real sense that I'm getting in over my head here. I do have a steady hand, as I said to dencorso, but otherwise when it comes to manual work, I'm all thumbs.

--JorgeA