HELP! How do I get Direct Cable Connection to work on WindowNT4?

[NewtWin]

I wonder if someone (anyone) can help me?! I am taking some programming courses. My main computer is (and has been for the last 9 years or so) a Windows NT 4.0. Some of my teachers say "I really need to be thinking about getting a new computer", haha. Well, I have been thinking of getting a new computer for years and years and years, but somehow I've managed to survive on this one I am using now, thank you. But in my current classes, for example, I am working with Java and the latest Java that will install on my computer is version 1.4 or something like that, and in my last class I DID have a bit of a rough spot here and there with my Java not having what I needed. Now as a precaution, I have borrowed a friends laptop which DOES have Windows XP (and its also an interesting new OS in the way it has these pop-up boxes keep coming up saying there is some kind of error and do I want to notify Microsoft about it, hmmm). But anyway, I have loaded the latest version of Java onto it and also a later C++ compiler in case the one on my machine is not sufficient. So I have my Windows NT 4.0 machine and this laptop, and everything should be great. If I need the latest software I use the laptop. But I still can surf the web on my main computer, with everything setup the way I have it. There is just one problem: Even though these 2 machines are sitting on my desk right next to each other, I have had the most incredibly difficult time setting things up so that they can talk to each other. My main machine is connected (via an ethernet connection) into the internet. Now I want to be able to connect the laptop into this machine (I don't even WANT it to be connected into the net, just my main machine). See, now this would not have been a problem, if all they did was simply provide this laptop with a simple floppy disk drive, but NO!!, they can't have some stupid old technology like that cluttering it up. So my favorite solution is, try to get this Direct Connect via serial ports to work. I have tried and tried but I cannot do it! I even recently ordered a brand "new" copy of the book "Windows NT Workstation 4 1998 Edition UNLEASHED" just to help me with this and some other stuff.

I went and bought parts for and created a really nice little null modem serial cable. But so far it has been just a waste of time and money, because it just doesn't work! I went into the Network dialog box (right-click from Network Neighborhood), chose the Services tab, and then double-clicked on "Remote Access Service". From there, I can Add COM1 or COM2 (What I originally had here was COM3 which was associated with my modem which I just today finally deleted from this "Remote Access Setup"). So I set up COM1 to "Receive calls only" (that book I bought says you need to set it up as a server or client) after I had done what the book says about creating a "virtual modem". Now, once I do that, I am supposed to be able to start up RAS and make some settings there. But whenever I try to start up RAS (Remote Access Service) I get this stupid pop-up box with error number 1066. I never had any problem starting up RAS when I had my modem chosen on COM3 even with it set to send and receive. Now another thing I want to say is, if I open up a command prompt window (this book I just bought calls it CLI for Command Line Interface), and type "mode COM1:" I get back this strange message: "Device COM1 is not currently available". And the same thing for Com2. So I am wondering, are these serial ports disabled or something? That certainly would explain why I am getting a stupid error 1066 message when I try to start up RAS. But if these serial ports are disabled, then HOW THE $#%& DO I ENABLE IT/THEM? I never remember ever having to do such a thing before. Do I need to put some line of code in the autoexec.bat or something (its currently empty)? By the way, from the Ports applet of control panel, all three ports are set up the same way: Baud Rate: 19200, Data Bits: 8, Parity: None, Stop Bits: 1, Flow Control: Hardware. Of course, if I look at these settings from the CLI for COM3, there it says that COM3 is set to Baud of 2400, something else I never understood. But that never stopped the modem from working fine. Does anyone have a clue as to what I am doing wrong? To anyone who has read this and tried to think of a way to do this, my most sincere appreciations!

[Tripredacus]

You should be able to connect an XP and NT PC using a crossover cable (ethernet) and set static IPs on both...

The only way I know via a serial cable is to use the old LapLink app, but I do not know if they made one for XP.

[NewtWin]

You should be able to connect an XP and NT PC using a crossover cable (ethernet) and set static IPs on both...

Yes, I could do that, I am aware of that. But I find the idea that, after using my Windows NT to surf the web, when I want to then communicate with the laptop I need to 1) disconnect the ethernet cable going to internet 2) connect a cross-over from Windows NT computer to laptop 3) go into the TCP/IP settings to reset them to a static IP 4) reboot Windows NT and then hope I can get this to work, every time I want to establish a connection between the Windows NT computer and the laptop, at which time my access to the WEB is gone, to be inconvenient in the extreme and not an acceptable solution. But here is another way I could do this. My sister gave me one of these new flash drives. And when I stick it into a USB port on the laptop, the laptop recognizes it with no problem. Now on my Windows NT machine, there are 2 USB ports in the back, and although Windows NT does not recognize them, this computer does happen to be set up to be dual boot, and the other operating system I can boot up to is Windows 98, and under that operating system, I have used these USB ports (to connect to a scanner). The trouble is, they do not recognize the flash drive, even from Windows 98, and I suspect that is because Windows 98 was way before they had flash drives. So what I am wondering is, is there some where I can get a driver for this flash drive? I mean, how would I even know what to look for, the flash drive is this stupid little thing, no product number on it or anything. So unless there is a generic flash drive driver out there somewhere that works for all flash drivers, I guess I can't use that method either. By the way, I did notice someone on these forums gave a link to some software to make the USB ports available (apparently) from Windows NT, which would be great! But, even if that worked, I assume I would still be in the situation where the flash driver would not be recognized. But why not go the Direct Cable Connection via serial ports route? Microsoft claims you can do it from Windows NT, and they claim you can do it from Windows XP. So either they are lying or you are in fact supposed to be able to do it. The only question is, how?

[cluberti]

Any particular reason you aren't simply using a simple consumer-grade router with a switch?

[Tripredacus]

Yeah the flash drive thing is annoying. My Win98 PC does not see those either. Stinks because I have a floppy drive, but only in that PC and my other PC doesn't have one. Man I had no idea there would be a reason to keep old books laying about. I recently recycled about 10 NT and 98 books.

[submix8c]

Whew! Allow me to attempt to summarize -

You have -

0 - a requirement to connect PC-1 (your Laptop) -> PC-2 (borrowed) -> WWW

1 - a DCC cable you would rather use instead of

a - FlashDrive (borrowed)

b - No Crossover (requires another NIC in borrowed, then would work?)

2 - an NT4 PC-1 (yours), no USB access/support

3 - another PC-2 (borrowed) with

a - XP that "errors" with FlashDrive (? not sure why)

b - 98 with USB support but does not "recognize" the FlashDrive

Questions -

1 - Is it 98SE or 98FE?

2 - What's the make/model of the FlashDrive? (drivers supplied?)

Conclusions -

1 - You don't want (or are reluctant) to try the "NT USB Driver"

2 - XP is causing an (unknown?) error; You dare not attempt to fix (not yours?)

3 - NUSB may not help on the 98; You dare not attempt install (not yours?)

I don't have a FlashDrive, so I'm just trying clarify so someone can help. Is the preceding correct?

Edited April 6, 2010 by submix8c

[NewtWin]

0 - a requirement to connect PC-2 (borrowed Laptop XP) -> PC-1 (my NT4) -> WWW

1 - a DCC cable you would rather use instead of

a - FlashDrive (mine)

b - No Crossover (requires another NIC in PC-1, then would work?)

2 - an NT4 PC-1 (yours), no USB access/support

3 - another PC-2 (borrowed laptop) with

a - XP that "errors" with FlashDrive (no, the FlashDrive works fine on the laptop)

b - 98 with USB support but does not "recognize" the FlashDrive (correct)

Questions -

1 - Is it 98SE or 98FE? (98SE)

2 - What's the make/model of the FlashDrive? (drivers supplied?) (ok it is STAPLES 64M, it does have a number on it H0620GX but no drivers came with it)

Conclusions -

1 - You don't want (or are reluctant) to try the "NT USB Driver"

2 - XP is causing an (unknown?) error; You dare not attempt to fix (not yours?) (the laptop throws up errors every now and then, but that is not relevant to this thing I am trying to do)

3 - NUSB may not help on the 98; You dare not attempt install (not yours?) (don't know what a NUSB is)

Yea, if I knew how to load a driver for the flash drive, that would be great! If I loaded the WinNT USB driver, is it possible that would then allow me to use the flashdrive? I am correct, aren't I, in assuming a USB driver is different than a flash drive driver. If they are different, then I guess I would just as soon get the USB to work under Windows 98. Well, I think I am gonna try this: http://www.usbman.com/win98seusbguide.htm.

By the way, here is info gleaned from using this flashdrive (or is it called a THUMB drive) on the laptop running Windows XP:

Staples USB Device

Driver: Staples USB Device

Driver Provider: Microsoft

Driver Date: 7/1/2001

Driver Version: 5.1.2535.0

Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows Publisher

When I click on Driver Details, I get:

Staples USB Device

Driver files:

C:\WINDOWS\system32\DRIVERS\disk.sys

C:\WINDOWS\system32\drivers\PartMgr.sys

Provider: Microsoft Corporation

File version: 5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)

Copyright: © Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

Digital Signer: Microsoft Windows Publisher

~~LATER~~

Well, what do you know. After I had composed what you see above, I was thinking, why not just enter "STAPLE flashdrive" into Google or something like that and see what turns up. Well, although it took me half a day to do it, I finally managed to come up with some software that did the trick! First I ran this thing called a UNOFFICIAL Windows98 SE Service Pack 2.1a which can be downloaded from here: http://www.majorgeeks.com/download4131.html . But after installing it, I still was not able to install a driver for the flash drive. But then after some more wandering around on the internet, I discovered this page http://www.technical-assistance.co.uk/kb/usbmsd98.php in which is written:

USB flash drives and other USB mass storage based devices are becoming more and more common. Unfortunately, they often do not come with drivers because Windows Me, 2000, XP and Vista all come with generic drivers already installed. This way all you need to do is plug the drive in, Windows will recognise it and you will automatically see the drive in My Computer. Windows 98, especially in it's second edition (also known as Windows 98SE), handles USB fairly well, however there are no generic/universal mass storage device drivers preinstalled in the operating system, so you will need to install some additional drivers for it.

which led to this page: http://www.technical-assistance.co.uk/kb/win98se-usb-mass-storage-drivers.php

from which the following generic USB 2.0 controller driver was available:

Windows 98 SE Generic USB Mass Storage Device Drivers v3.3 - nusb33e.exe

http://www.technical-assistance.co.uk/drivers/nusb33e.exe

And after running the above executable, which was scary because it said "run at your own risk!", well I did risk it and I LUCKED OUT!! It actually works great for allowing me to access my STAPLES 64M flash drive from my Windows 98 SE operating system. Now, I can start getting to work on studying for my classes, instead of worrying about whether I would ever be able to come up with some way to communicate between those two computers. PHWEWW!

[submix8c]

Glad you got it going. BTW, both the Unofficial Service Pack and the NUSB package are right here on MSFN (look around under the 98 sub-forum and the Member Contributed Projects). Just wasn't sure if you wanted to "fiddle" with someone else' PC.

[awergh]

I'm a bit late but serial cable should be possible although I couldn't quite get it to work but I was using NT4 and 2008R2 on seperate domains.

http://fredhanson.com/J_HELMIG/dccnt4.htm Has stuff about NT4 and 9x Direct Cable Connection

The easy way though would be to use Hyperterminal to establish a serial connection and then transfer files that way also it seemed more reliable then direct cable connection.

You could also have used NT4 USB Drivers which work fine.

http://ftp1.us.dell.com/utility/R62200.EXE

You may have needed an NT4 FAT32 Driver as well though

http://www.winprj.net/board/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=84

But if what you want to do works for you then by all means do that

[jaclaz]

Well, I don't see that much of a problem with a serial connection .

References:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/305621/en-us

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142065/en-us

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/tech/tk801/tk36/technologies_configuration_example09186a008017acac.shtml

Particularly:

http://www.windowsnetworking.com/articles_tutorials/dccmain.html

Maybe there is something in your install that is corrupted and it prevents it from working. .(

jaclaz

[NewtWin]

I really want to thank everyone who helped me with getting my Windows NT4 computer connected to a laptop running Windows XP (especially that I didn't get comments I would expect, such as "get a new computer, id***!" ) . My OP was on getting these 2 computers connected with a null-modem cable using the serial ports. A few days ago I thought I'd try something and IT WORKED! I got a connection established through this null-modem cable I had built. But I haven't quite got to my goal, although obviously I feel I'm very close. My RAS on my Windows NT says I have connected as administrator. I have set the Working Group for both computers the same. But once I have connected (which goes without a hitch now), I cannot see the other computer under Windows (Just to satisfy myself that I CAN now transfer files, I used ftp to connect to the other machine and transferred files that way). On Windows XP, I go to "My Network Places" and click on "View workgroup computers" and I get this error pop-up box that says: "Isg is not accessible. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator of this server to find out if you have access permissions. The list of servers for this workgroup is not currently available". Now, under Windows XP, I have had all Networking Services running for this connection: Internet Protocol (TCP/IP), QoS Packet Scheduler, File and Printer Sharing for Microsoft Networks, and Client for Microsoft Networks. On the Windows NT end, I have just TCP/IP available on this connection. Should I be adding this thing called NetBEUI? I found someone on the Internet was having a similar problem (hooking up 2 Windows XP computers) and someone suggested enabling netBIOS over TCP/IP and for this person, that solved his/her problem. Well, I have that enabled on the Windows XP laptop, but I can't find where to set this on my Windows NT computer.

What am I missing here? On my Windows NT I have the following Network services running:

3Com dRMON SmartAgent PC Software

Computer Browser

Microsoft Peer Web Server (funny this is listed as the Personal Web Server is currently not functioning)

NetBIOS Interface (I guess this means netBIOS is running on Windows NT)

Remote Access Service

RPC Configuration

Server

Workstation

When I first tried connecting via ftp, I wasn't getting through. Eventually I realized the ZoneAlarm was keeping me out so I added the IP address to let it through and now I can get through that way. I assume that given I can get through (via FTP) then that is no longer the problem, even for this Windows stuff. I hope I am correct in that assumption. For this connection, on Windows XP under the Advanced TAB, I see that "Your PC is not protected on Windows Firewall" <- good. On Remote Access Permissions on the WinNT side, I have granted permission to Dial-In to administrator. I mean, what is the problem here?

So anyone have any ideas? And again, thanks so much for your help.

[submix8c]

Not sure about the NT-side, but for cross-connection accesses with any other (e.g. XP, so probably the same rqmt), you must have User-A/Pswd-A and User-B/Pswd-B defined on both PC-A and PC-B, then sign on to PC-A with User-A and PC-B with User-B.

HTH

[NewtWin]

OK I just wanted to report, that due to some very informative postings here:

http://www.experts-exchange.com/Networking/Windows_Networking/Q_20965078.html

I was actually able to get some network drives mapped to my Windows NT computer. The trick was, if I used the actual IP address which my Windows NT had been assigned when I went to map a network drive, like this:

drive: Y: \\169.124.1.2\C$

I not only had to use the IP address, but I also had to put that $ symbol at the end of the name of the shared drive name, even though I was SURE that that $ was symbolic of something in WinNT land (although I can't remember what right now), and was not meant to be a part of the drive name. But since just using C would not work, and since it was listed as C$ on Window NT, I just thought I'd try it and it worked : . But I still don't understand why I can't see the Windows NT computer as one of the computers in the workgroup. But anyway, now that I have the 2 computers connected through Windows (hey, it only took me a few months to accomplish this), what I discovered was, I could not believe how SLOWWWWW this network connection is. I mean, I think in the deep dark past I have experienced 300 BAUD modem dial-up connections. This seemed as bad or even worse!! I thought I'd try listening to this short little MP3 (1½ minutes, 3.68MB) I have through the connection. It took an hour! In the book I bought recently, called "Windows NT Workstation 4 UNLEASHED", the guy said you should connect at 19200 bps because he couldn't get anything else to work. So that's what I used to connect, and like I said, I have now gotten that to work. But once I got it to work I thought, surely he must be mistaken that I can't use these higher speeds that are available on both ends. But so far, I have not been able to get it work at any higher speeds!! ARGH!! Does anyone know why these higher speeds should not be possible? And also, if on Windows NT I open up the Ports icon in the Control Panel, and reset the speed of a port (COM1 in my case), is that port actually getting its bps rate changed right then? Or do I need to reboot for it to take effect? Somehow I can't believe it is getting reset. I've tried resetting it, then connecting again, and it won't connect at the higher speed at the client end, but it still does connect at 19200.

Note: I'll have to try your user name/password idea later on

Edited May 5, 2010 by NewtWin

[awergh]

115200 should work, I'm sure I would of done that speed between 9x and NT4 although I cant actually remember but I've definately done that speed with hyperterminal which is fine if you only want to copy a single file

[submix8c]

Just worthy of note - a COM port is Serial so you will only have 1-way (either way) communication available at any given time, otherwise you'll have what's called "collision".