Will MS ever enable fly-out Start Menu submenus by default...?

[Volatus]

Okay, yet another Windows version, yet another opportunity for MS to refine some botched default options...

In Windows 9x/2K, everything was a fly-out menu, and it was easy to get to things. With WinXP, this was still possible and even faster, actually. You just have to re-enable the ridiculously disabled "Show as menu" options. It greatly improves navigation speed and productivity, and yet... Vista(ids) came out and the default options were unchanged - not only that, but MS introduced a bug in the way fly-out menus were handled. You could no longer jump from one menu to a different submenu (like Documents to Control Panel or Computer) and have it appear. Yet another unfixed bug, still unfixed in Win7 as well (just tested it).

With bugs like these, will Win7 ever get the default options that users deserve? To show extensions on files may be a "long shot"; my IT instructor enlightened me as to why that's not gonna happen: people just don't understand them. But putting submenus back on the Start menu? I can't think of any downsides. Is the whole world just so used to the botched XP start menu defaults that they don't even want to use submenus? Or is there another good reason?

Not even touching on the botched implementation of the Vista-style "All Programs" list... *facepalm*

[Access Denied]

Why on earth would you want to click 3-5 times when you can never use the mouse. Just hit the start button and start typing. No offense, to each his own. This is just better for me.

[kickass94]

ahhh, the submenus. One of Microsoft's objective with Vista (or Vista[aids]) was to maximize user productivity, hence windows aero. Remember when you used Windows 9x with the submenus? My problems was there were so many submenus they occupied the whole computer screen! Or even worse when I used a slow computer, scrolling with the submenus were annoyingly slow . In a scenario, someone using his computer wants to open something, then scrolling through and browsing the submenus, then he forgets what his doing because his entire screen was blocked. And that would just annoy the user which Microsoft (or anyone) doesn't want. And that in my opinion is why they had to remove the submenu feature.

And unfortunately I'm no expert that's why I can't answer on a more software basis.

But I think, it might have something to do with Microsoft removing the classic start menu from Vista which was last seen on XP.

Plus be thankful for Vista, Now that Microsoft kinda screwed Vista up. They have to make Windows 7 noticeably better which mean all the bugs be eliminated, or consumers might lose trust in them. If they made vista good then they have to make windows 7 kinda bad so that the successors would give them a good image.

[GrofLuigi]

They need to show Vistaids are better (or just different) than XP so people would not stick with XP and splash hard-earned money. -> So they make changes in the GUI. -> If people revert those changes, they could rightfully say Vistaids are no better than XP(oids) -> So they ban reverting.

GL

Edit: stick this whereever you like in betwen the sentences above

-> During the development of Vista, all the good and really useful changes were dropped, so all that is changed is GUI. ->

Edit 2: and another

-> Shareholders and management pressurize Windows team to release Windows versions as often as possible in order to maximize income. ->

Edited April 14, 2009 by GrofLuigi

[Tripredacus]

If they are ever made default, I'd change them anyways. I do not like how slow the fly out menu is, and would rather just click on it. Seems to be faster in my experience.

[Volatus]

If they are ever made default, I'd change them anyways. I do not like how slow the fly out menu is, and would rather just click on it. Seems to be faster in my experience.

...

You'd rather click and open up - and then have to close - an entire new window, instead of just clicking the submenus to make them appear (like most people do with menus anyway)? Hell, I never wait for the menus to come up under the cursor. I click once to make them appear, double click to open a new window when necessary. I'd say that over 90% of the time, I get to what I want much quicker using the menus than having to open a new window and double-click my way through navigation...

GL: Couldn't've said it better.

kickass94: Menus don't have to be a full-screen flood. But the All Programs menu in Vista is like looking through a keyhole instead of seeing everything at a glance. There's a neat little program I ran across called "Vista Start Menu" which incorporates a lot of changes to the Start Menu that MS should really take a clue from... like, making the All Programs menu blow up to the full screen height (what a concept!), and assigning a shortcut to be the default action for clicking a folder in the list. Y'know, most people I know hated that "scrolling programs menu". So MS decided to make it even harder than _that_ to navigate?

Access Denied: Using Search for everything is hardly a solution. If the Search box were to be so useful, it should search just the programs list, instead of wasting time pouring all over my goddamn hard drive looking for files I'm not even close to looking for. Hell, the box in the Vista start menu isn't even close to a replacement for Win+R... it doesn't autocomplete paths! If they want to make it useful, it should be more customizable, and have path autocomplete. Simple as that. Besides, I'm not going to be using the search box to start a program I already know the location of anyway...

[cluberti]

I understand people will hate Vista and Win7, but I'm not sure this is the best forum for this. It's widely known Microsoft has removed the classic start menu code and all the start menu GUI built on top of it, so asking if they'll enable it will get you an obvious answer - no, it's been removed.

[Volatus]

I understand people will hate Vista and Win7, but I'm not sure this is the best forum for this. It's widely known Microsoft has removed the classic start menu code and all the start menu GUI built on top of it, so asking if they'll enable it will get you an obvious answer - no, it's been removed.

... Who on earth said anything about that god forsaken classic start menu? I'm not sure if that comment was directed at me, but perhaps you should re-read the thread...

[cluberti]

As much as I detest people who can't read for comprehension, I must say that I've answered your original question/statement entirely, even if you don't realize it. You discuss the old menu, specifically the fly-out menu components, which is a part of the classic shell code for the start menu. Hence, that code is gone from Win7, and as such enabling the option isn't possible.

[Tripredacus]

If they are ever made default, I'd change them anyways. I do not like how slow the fly out menu is, and would rather just click on it. Seems to be faster in my experience.

...

You'd rather click and open up - and then have to close - an entire new window, instead of just clicking the submenus to make them appear (like most people do with menus anyway)? Hell, I never wait for the menus to come up under the cursor. I click once to make them appear, double click to open a new window when necessary. I'd say that over 90% of the time, I get to what I want much quicker using the menus than having to open a new window and double-click my way through navigation...

Access Denied: Using Search for everything is hardly a solution. If the Search box were to be so useful, it should search just the programs list, instead of wasting time pouring all over my goddamn hard drive looking for files I'm not even close to looking for. Hell, the box in the Vista start menu isn't even close to a replacement for Win+R... it doesn't autocomplete paths! If they want to make it useful, it should be more customizable, and have path autocomplete. Simple as that. Besides, I'm not going to be using the search box to start a program I already know the location of anyway...

My bad experience only comes from setting the Control Panel to a "fly-out menu." I think the actual term is "Display as a Menu". This was very slow for me. I use XP at home and Server 2003 at work. I have not used the reghack to speed that process up either. I don't mind how Vista or 7 displays programs in the start menu. It takes a little getting used to but us IT guys need to adapt in order to make it in this world, so I can live with that.

I also agree that the search is not (for me) a replacement for run. Not everyone knows how to open the run box with the keyboard, even though it is an old command. I use it in Vista, but in Vista I turn off indexing also so the search box is pretty much useless to me. I also miss the advanced search options, but this may be something I do not know how to use. I still use the dos prompt for searches in Vista.

But as far as any Vista and Windows 7 differences from 9x, 2k and XP, basically if you have to support it you have to get used to it or if you don't like it then don't even bother.

[Access Denied]

I love the new features of the start menu in 7.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Access Denied

[Tripredacus]

Like anything in life, you go with what suits you. If you like the search box, AccessDenied, then that's fine too. Microsoft has made your life easier and that is not something to be ashamed of. We all find things we like and don't like with all programs out there. The people who write these programs (or operating systems) are human also, and we should must be happy that we have this and not something worse!

Anyways, its obvious that we all have different opinions on how Vista or Windows 7 works and we just have to live with it. No complaining about it here will make any difference. If you have access to the Partner Channel or to OEM Connect, you can send along your comments, criticisms and bug reports to your account rep. If you don't, but are a part of the official Alpha or Beta programs, you have that option also.

[Access Denied]

Edited April 15, 2009 by Access Denied

[Tripredacus]

It's allright. I remember my growing pains when I went from Windows 98 to XP. What a jump!

[Tarun]

I went from Windows Me to XP and I loved it right away, just because it could handle games and everything so much better. When I made the move to Vista I quickly grew into it as well. Enjoying every bit of it and how well everything performed.