HOW can I make a BackUp of my pc help please

[Libby342]

HI everyone,

this is my first post here so please bear with me while I try to do my best to explain my

situation.

I have a hp pavilionmx70 with windows xp home version with Sp3 updates as well.

But I don't have a install cd for this pc, it came from the store with windows installed

already onto it. If ever I have had to put it back to factory settings( which by the way

I have had to do about 10 times since I have owned it)

I always have to go for the destructive recovery process and then go thru the torture

of windows up dates to get me back to the current service pack etc.

It seems that my recovery disks or restore disks are built into my pc here on the hard drive

somewhere, trouble is I have searched thru the forum here and most steps say use

the install cd to create the backups with and the image backups etc?

So my questions here are as follows please:

(1) Does any one have any guides or can please give me the simple steps that I would need

to take in order to create a working backup of my current system as it is today so

in future when I have to do the destructive install then I could just use my cd to

get me back to todays date alot faster?

(2) I have downloaded image burner, barts pe software, disk image, drive imageXML

driver max software, and a few others but get stuck as to how this all works in simple

terms please?

(3) I also have SP2 and SP3 on my pc here already, so do I still need to download

the SP2 and SP3 service packs again? Some of the other places I have researched

this at the links all lead to the SP2 and SP3 for IT or to install the service packs onto

multiple pcs and I only need to do this for 1 pc here at the moment.

So do I still need to do these downloads as well?

And if so and I already have the service packs installed on this pc here will that mess

it up for me to have the service packs here 2 times?

(4) I also need some easy to understand steps please as to how I would go about to backup

all my current Drivers as again some of the steps I have read up on all instruct that

you should make a complete backup image of your current system

But how?

then they say to make sure you have all your drivers backed up and copied onto your

cd for the time that the pc askes you to hit the F6 key to put those back in?

Again please how is this step done?

I have never done any type of backup of my system before other then yes I have learned

the hard way to make sure that all my current documents and pictures and other softwares

that I had installed onto my pc after doing one of those destructive recoveries got copied

and burned to cds here.

I have contacted HP on this matter of helping me to get a copy of my complete system here

in case one day that I cant even get the destructive recovery to work for me and they said

sorry we don't have any cds for your system it is all built into your hard drive in the partitions

section and you have to use destructive recovery to get to it.

Well that is fine I guess until like I said one day I cant even get that far.

So please if any one here can help me out with the steps to get a backup of my pc as it

is today as well as how to create maybe my own install cd for my windows system I would

so appreciate any and all help with this as right now I am a sitting time bomb without

any recourse in case my windows xp home version goes crazy on my again which it does

seem to like to do once every 6 months or sometimes sooner.

I also would need the guidance please as to what step to do 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so forth in

the correct order that they should be done so I don't mess this up, as I said I have no way

to get my system back up and running at the moment except for the way I said above

and so that is why I am asking all of these questions ahead of time before I attempt anything

here on my own.

Thanks everyone and I welcome any and all help with getting started here.

Libby342

[TheFlash428]

Wow!

OK, few things first...

First, if I read you correctly, what you're ultimately trying to do is create an exact copy of your hard drive's current configuration (image), so that in the event that you have to do a restore, you will be able to apply this backup and save you from having to install all of your applications and updates again? This is called "restoring from image"--the "image" being the copy of your hard drive.

Like most things computer related, there is not 1 single best way to do this--it all depends on what you have and what resources are available to you--but since you've taken the time to provide so much info, I'll try to help as best I can...

In order to do this, you will most likely need some software. Symantec (Norton) Ghost and Acronis True Image are two well known disk imaging applications out there, but there are many others as well. Given the software you listed in (2), I'm not sure what "Disk Image" is, but you may want to look at that. Any software should come with instructions on how to use it to create your backup image.

Second thing is to consider what you're going to be writing this backup to--another HDD, a separate partition, or possibly CD/DVD media. Keep in mind that you'll need enough space to backup your entire drive; if you have a lot of stuff on your primary HDD (C:\), then the image of that drive could be considerably large. For the average person trying to back up a home computer, DVD media is often the most convenient way to go.

For you SP question, NO, if you have already downloaded and installed the update via Windows Update, then you do not need to download the service packs again. If you backup your drive to an image, you're basically making an EXACT copy, so all the installed update and services packs remain in the same state as when the backup was created. Same goes for drivers. The issue with drivers you discuss would be required if you were going to reinstall XP from a brand new source disk (which you do not have)--you are trying to make a backup image to reinstall with.

It's good you already have a backup of your personal files and programs--you should do that regardless before starting this process. It *may* also be a good idea to delete any personal files (esp large ones like movies or music libraries) before making image, since you've already backed them up elsewhere--this will reduce the overall size of the backup image.

So, to summarize:

1. Backup important personal (non-system) files on HDD...I believe you've already done this.

2. Choose a disk imaging software. Follow instructions provided.

If you can get this far, you should be able to ask much more specific questions that will be much easier of us to answer.

Edited July 15, 2008 by TheFlash428

[submix8c]

Compaq (so I assume HP?) had a selection on many preloaded PC's in the "All Programs" (or "Start/Programs") to create a set of Restore or Recover CD's in case you were foolish enough to destroy both the primary (the C-drive) and the Recovery (hidden D-Drive) partitions. See if you have that and if you do make all the CD's for insurance.

If not, then (again, for insurance) backup the "hidden" partition (don't remember offhand the method for "unhiding") to CD/DVD using whatever software suits you (it better be able to restore).

Burn all post-restore installed software (and don't lose the keys) also. This will include Service Pack 3 Network Install (search Microsoft.com for it). This is the Full Service Pack (which includes all previously released "fixes", of which only a handful of "fixes" have been issued since (SP3 was released April 2008). You don't need Service Pack 2 since erveice pack 3 supersedes it. It is also available as an ISO file which can be burned to CD with ImgBurn (an ISO Image Burning Program), which will AutoRun when inserted into your drive.

The primary reason for using the Recovery CD's/Partition is to reinstall all software suppied by HP (not just Windows, but maybe MS-Works, or some Demo software usually good for 3-6 months). Also, it "retains" the Windows Product Activation.

An alternative (if you only care about the Windows part and not the extraneous software) is to locate the I386 folder on the "Hidden Partition" and find the topic on Silent (or Unattended) Installs of OEM Windows. This may require using the key on the side of your PC (not the one found with keyfinder) and possibly certain "special" files on you current C-drive. I've used the I386 and "special" files to create an OEM Install CD (not Unattended) for my brother's wife before and it works.

But do definitely organize some kind of backup plan according to The Flash' post and/or to this. BTW, ImgBurn will create ISO's for you to burn for backup of everything, but you will probably need BartPE to restore them. Do a little reading up on the tools you've downloaded and do a search ("Google is your friend") on how other people have done it as well as here on the Forum.

And DO NOT (sorry for yelling, but it's important) alter or delete the Hidden "Recover" Partition in any way once you reveal it. It can also be used if you accidentally delete the C-drive partition simply by making it the Active one (perhaps the HP BIOS allows for this scenario?).

And, yes, a Disk Image as Flash has already proposed, would be the ideal solution, provided you use CD/DVD-RW's and keep a set in rotation (current, older-1, older-2, etc.). This is the solution many Big Boys use (been there, done that). Using CD/DVD-RW's allows for up to 99 reburns. Just don't mix them up, e.g. keep the "sets" number (set1 cd1+2+3, set2 cd1+2+3, etc) remember/mark them according to rotation so you know which one you may be restoring-from or rotating-in.

Wow! is right... Peace, Flash...

Edited July 15, 2008 by submix8c

[spacesurfer]

did you say bartpe? did you already make a bartpe cd.... cause you need the xp install cd to make it.

if you did, then the best image software (which is free) is imagex. it's a hefty download though just for the small imagex program. you'll have to create a plugin for bartpe for imagex to work.

otherwise, look for some free disk imaging software. some good paid ones are trueimage by acronis. i still like ghost 2003 version (not the rebranded newer ghosts). the only thing about ghost 2003 is that it doesn't allow multiple images to be stored in one file like imagex does.

good luck.

[Libby342]

HI Flash,

I will go for answering each of the posts here seperately so I can better understand there answers, first off a big THANKKK YOU to Flash and the others who have taken the time to

post back to me on this thread post, yes I do seem to get long winded at time when I explain

things but I wanted to make sure that I gave enough info so that those who read this thread

would better understand my situation, yes my fingers still ache lol.

Ok onto the more questions and answer parts here if I may.

(1) the restoring to image part, yes that is what I want to achieve here so that I will have

a backup of my system as it is working today, but also I read that one should also

have a "Live Cd of there operating system" so is this the same thing as a backup of my pc?

(2)if not then how can I also create that as well while I am doing all this please?

(3) I am using what they call DRIVEIMAGEXML, as well as I do have image burner here downloaded,so do both of these do a backup or are they different?

I ask this because I did read the instructions but both seem to reference the same thing

for making backups etc? But again a bit of confusion as to which I should start with?

(4)On the issue of the drivers part:

I should then go for making a backup of my pc as it is today first? And then go for trying to create this "Brand New Source Disk" so these are 2 different things then correct?

forgive me for this question but again I am very new to all these different terms so i am

trying to better understand them all.

Also what does HDD stand for, I have a HP pavilionmx70 pc here but its not a Compaq.

Now yes I would be trying to create this back up to a CD, I have read and some as well

have told me that I am crazy for trying to do it this way because it will take me about 100

CDs to create my whole backup process with all my windows and applications as they

came from the factory settings set up with. Is this true?

if Not then can you please be so kind as to tell me some sort of amount of CDS that I

will need to have on hand to perform this backup of my pc as it is today with everything

on here already:

example all my software that I installed after windows put my pc as to as if the first day that

I got it, meaning I would like to keep all those software programs installed and included in my backup that I created to save the time of putting them all back again and again.

as well as all my documents and downloads that I have done recently or should I put all those onto there own cd and delete them before creating this backup image? I hope I am thus using the right term for what I am trying to create here at this moment?

See I read on another forum that you can use the I386 folder to create your start up disk

with and this was also considered a backup of your system as well but from what I now

understand the way you put it here Flash is that these are actually 2 different projects and terms

is that right thus far? As they called it a startup boot disk? I should also have one of those

as well as a backup plan for this pc do you think?

I do again want to thank you for taking the time out to reply back to me and help me to get

onto the right track as I said I am very very scared to do anything to this pc in fear that it

will go crazy again before I can at least create the backups needed for me to help me get

it back, I already caused it to go into a loop affect here and it took me a few days and alot of

reading to get it back to reboot onto the destructive mode and when it did it had wiped out

all my saved files and software that I had added later on which took me yet another few days

to put it all back and then onto the wonderful windows updates which took me yet another

few days, so in all it costed me over 2 weeks of downtime here just to get back and if I can

avoid that scenario again I will take all the advice and help to keep me up to date with this

pc.

I will await your next reply to these questions to help me better understand it all and then

get started here and what equipment and how many CD's I will need to have on hand to get

the image burned.

Also if I may, what does ISO and OEM stand for please and do I need to do these backups

as well when I do the image backup of my system here?

thanks

Libby342

Edited July 16, 2008 by Libby342

[Libby342]

HI submix8c,

I want to make sure that I keep all these answers and steps straight for me to apply them so that is why I am answering each of these posts seperate, I am hoping that it is ok to do it that way here in this forum? Thank you very much as well for taking the time to post back to my long post here and answer some of my current questions, I do also if I may have a few more questions for your reply as well ok?

(1) I dont have a compaq pc or at least I dont thing I do, mine here says HP pavilionmx70.

You had said this part :and the Recovery (hidden D-Drive) partitions.

My D-Drive points me only to my cd rom here when I pull up my computer and look in there I have a C: and the letter D and the letter E which goes to my 2nd cd/dvd burner writer here.

I dont have the easy-cd creator software on or in this pc to do any sort of backups with, that was why I called Hp and that was what they told me that all my backups and my recovery of my windows applications etc are on that hidden partion there but they would not tell me how to get to that section of my pc either to try and create a backup of that section if that makes any sense?

They also dont have any of my install or start up disks either for my version of my pc.

(2) What do you actually me by Burn All post restore installed software? Or do you mean software that I put onto this pc after I put it back to factory settings? And what keys?

(3) you also said this will include Full Service Pack 3 Network Install? So does that mean that yes I would need to download that again? That is a 10hr download here for me as I am on a dialup connection, and if I do have to download it again where do I save it to then please so as not to mix it up with the service packs here that I already installed from the windows updates side?

Also on this part here, I dont have a Network set up only my own pc here at the moment?

(4) You had said it is also available as a ISO file which can be burned to a Cd and which will AutoRun when inserted into your drive?

(5) What does that mean please in easy newbie terms? Does that me I download this one file only from Microsoft and burn it to my Cd which would then reinstall this Service Pack back onto my pc here ? if so then it surely would create a error as I already have the Service Pack 3 installed onto this pc thru windows updates or am I missing something here with this part ? please further explain it to me so I can better understand it please?

Your Quote here:

The primary reason for using the Recovery CD's/Partition is to reinstall all software suppied by HP (not just Windows, but maybe MS-Works, or some Demo software usually good for 3-6 months). Also, it "retains" the Windows Product Activation.

(6)Yes this is also the part I am after to try and do a backup of as well so in the event that my pc wont even start back up into destructive recovery then at least I would have a complete copy or backed up image or what ever the correct term is to use here to be able to put that cd into my pc here and reinstall my whole operating system like on the first day that I had the pc if I am explaining this part of it right as well I sure hope I am?

Now I am going to try and break down these further questions as well as you had posted some very unfamilar terms here to me and I do need to know what they all mean so please do be kind enough to explain them as well ok?

here goes:

(1)

An alternative is to locate the I386 folder on the "Hidden Partition" and find the topic on Silent (or Unattended) Installs of OEM Windows.

How can I get to that "Hidden Partition" area please?

I read the topic on Silent Or Unattended Installs section and this seemed very complicated to do from my end here, or at least to try to attempt this without any backups first of my current Pc scared me out of doing that before I created at least some sort of backup of my pc as it is currently working right for the moment.

It also talked about a deploy method and I have no real understanding of that term, yet?

(2) Your Quote:

This may require using the key on the side of your PCand possibly certain "special" files on you current C-drive. I've used the I386 and "special" files to create an OEM Install CD (not Unattended) for my brother's wife before and it works.

My questions to this quote:

I have the license key I believe on the book that came with this pc or is that a different type of key you are speaking of here?

What type of "Special" files are you speaking of here could you please be more specific as to what files I would be looking for and where or how to locate them all please?

Yes that is what I am after here to definitely get myself a backup plan here for sure

So is it posiable then to create my backup of everything just with ImgBurn? or Is DriveImgXML the same sort of software that does the same thing or no?

And you said that I will need BartPE to restore them? Now that is where I got really confused

because I don't have any type of Install CD's For this pc here only what is built into it?

And that is great to get a backup of my system here but will do me no good if I don't have the right tools ahead of time to reinstall it all back to my pc in the event that I need to and don't have the access to the destructive built in side to my current pc if that makes any sense?

Just trying once again to plan ahead for that day if I need to and I hope it doesnt ever come to that day either.

I have read every one of the faq's and the help sections for the BartPE software and the imageBurn software, but that was also why I came here as they all seemed to have referred to using your Install CD's to restore back your pc and I don't have any Install Cd's to install with at the present time.

That was why I am so glad that I found this forum here and posted my questions with so a newbie like me could better understand between the lines so to speak, as some of the places explain it as if we are all experienced and speaking for me I can assure you I am as green as they come to this but can follow easy to understand instructions and get the job done most times:)

How can I reveal this hidden "Recover" partiton?

I have no clue as to how to even create a partition although I have read many a tuturials that say create this partition and that partition, I only have used this pc out the box so to speak so what ever HP put here for there backup or recovery section as well as my C: drive and my 2 cd/dvd writers here I have never created such a partition ,always been afraid I would run out of room for the many downloads and documents that I create and do here.

What do you mean here please? (perhaps the HP BIOS allows for this scenario?).

How would I check for this in the BIOS section then please?

Your Quote Again:

And, yes, a Disk Image as Flash has already proposed, would be the ideal solution, provided you use CD/DVD-RW's and keep a set in rotation (current, older-1, older-2, etc.). This is the solution many Big Boys use (been there, done that). Using CD/DVD-RW's allows for up to 99 reburns. Just don't mix them up, e.g. keep the "sets" number (set1 cd1+2+3, set2 cd1+2+3, etc) remember/mark them according to rotation so you know which one you may be restoring-from or rotating-in.

What do you mean in easy terms here please by rotation part?

When you say allows for up to 99 reburns, I am assuming that you mean to overwrite the last image backup to the same cd/dvd correct?

OR is that how many Cd's I am going to need and use just to create my backup of my current pc as it is today please?

Again forgive me if I sound dence here I truely am not but again always ask before I attempt to do anything to this pc here again out of fear that I will break it before I can backup a working copy of how it is now to put it back in the even that I do break it.

Further you say restoring from or rotating-in?

What does that exactly mean please? I alway thought that you make a backup of how your pc is at the current day, and then if in the event that you need to put it back to say the factory settings then you just put in your cd that you did a backup from and vola you are back to where you was from get go or do I have that wayyyy backwards here?

OK Now I no I have a real knack it seems for writting loong posts, please do forgive me but I just want to make sure that since you and others here have been kind enough to take the time to reply back to my post for help here that I can at least do my part and get all the facts straight and make sure that I have the correct information to move forward while I still can.

Thank you as well submix8c for your very helpful post here thus far and I do so hope you can reply back as well as Flash with these questions here that I just posted so I can clear a few more things up to hopefully then be able to begin this backup and what ever else I need to do to keep my self up to date with my pc here and not lose more sleep worrying when this pc might not start up on its own here one day and then ask myself why didnt I just ask someone for some help before hand to keep my pc safe. I hope all who read this can understand where I am coming from here thus far.

Libby342

[Libby342]

HI SpaceSurfer,

thank you for taking the time out to reply to this thread and post of mine so appreciate it.

(1) Yes I have downloaded the BartPE software.

No I did not already make a bartpe Cd as I dont have the usual install Cd's to try to make this with.

As all my recovery stuff or my reinstall of my windows XP home edition here seems to be in a "hidden" partition so therefor I seem to be stuck as to how I can even get a copy of what is currently on my pc here to create myself a working copy and backup of my current system as well as trying to achieve getting into that "hidden area partition section on my pc here to create myself a backup of that section in case something should ever happen when I cant even get into the destructive recovery section of my pc here to put it back to factory settings if ever need be.

I hope that makes sense?

If you can shed some light on what I said above I sure would also appreciate any further tips or advice you can offer me here to achieve this.

I have no idea what imagex is or even how to create a plugin for bartpe have not gotten that far yet I am afraid.

I did download imageburn, as well as DriveImageXML as I have found these thru reading and searching for steps to create a backup of my system.

I thank you once again for any and all help or steps you can offer me as to the questions I have posted here thus far

Libby342

[jaclaz]

OEM Original Equipment Manufacturer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OEM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equipment_manufacturer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_equi...turer#Computers

here it is usually used as in the underlined definitions:

Computers

Beside referring to manufacturers, OEM can be used as an adjective to describe software licensed only for a particular system. OEM software is purchased alongside a system or hardware parts. Certain OEM programs have limited functionality, but most do not. OEM software is often cheaper than the full versions but not as cheap as academic or student editions.

OEM hardware is hardware packaged for computer administrator and builder use. These products are normally plain boxed and often don't come with any instructions or references provided in retail packages.

Operating systems

There are two types of OEM when it comes to operating systems. The first is when a pre-built computer is purchased, there is an OEM disk that comes with the system, which can not be transferred to any other system, because that disk is designed to run only with the specific system components. The second type of OEM operating system is one that can be purchased, and that can be transferred to any other system, without the dependence on the systems components. The main difference between the two is that one is only meant for that specific system, and the other can be used on any system

In practice OEM operating systems are limited to be used on a given system by the License or EULA, but some may employ techniques to detect specific hardware to enforce respect of the EULA (End User License Agreement).

ISO is an institute for standards, usually when talking about PC's and CD/DVD we refer to ISO as .iso (the file extension normally used for data images of CD/DVD's) conforming to the ISO9660 standard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_9660

Ideally one should have THREE kinds of (optical) media:

1) Operating System install media, something that will install the base operating system (and nothing else)

2) A recovery environment, i.e. something bootable and useful to repair (minor) problems of the installed OS

3) An image of the system pre-configured (what you originally asked for)

Of course whilst 1) and 2) above will fit on a single CD or DVD, a complete image of a configured system will be spanned across several CD's/DVD's, though some compression of the data is possible, a very rough estimate would be something more than half the size of the data to be saved, this can be widely variable based on a number of factors, say that if you have an 80 Gb hard disk, (NOT NTFS compressed) and 40 Gb free, the 40 Gb data, once saved will need about 20÷22 Gb of optical media.

It must also be taken into account that when working with a "spanned" image or backup, if you lose one of the discs in the set, you won't be able to restore properly.

You will need some time and patience to grasp the ideas and experiment with them, the three "topics" I outlined should be taken in exam one at the time, in order not to mix too much one with another, please choose one, and we'll try and help you with that one, once you get the hang of it, we'll go on to another one.

jaclaz

Edited July 16, 2008 by jaclaz

[spacesurfer]

I understand your goal. I had the same goal before I started - to be able to image my OS partition such that any virus or user-created problem arises, I can simply roll-back or restore my system the way it was. Hence, we have software for imaging hard drives or partitions.

However, the word image can also refer to CD/DVD images. For example, if you have a XP or Vista setup CD/DVD, you can back it up as an image and they are usually stored as an ISO Image file.

Having said that, DriveImageXML is software for creating backup images of the hard drive partition such as an OS partition. ImageBurn is a program for burning CD/DVD images to a CD/DVD; hence the burn in it's name.

All of the above is so that you know the differences in what you and we are talking about.

Next, if you can afford to fork out some money, the easiest route to go is buy software such as TrueImage by Acronis or Norton Ghost (newer versions). These softwares are installed into the OS and can image your hard drive while your OS is running. This is known as hot imaging - meaning that they image the drive while the OS is running.

If you can't afford to buy imaging software, then you will have to use an alternative free utility like DriveImageXML. And as far as I know, this program cannot create hot images. Therefore, you have to run them from a recovery CD that gives you access to your NTFS OS partition. Thus, you have the problem of NTFS access as DOS cannot see NTFS partitions. Thus, the solutions are BartPE, WinPE, VistaPE, and such. However, making these recovery CD's require a bit of knowledge.

And I'm sorry to say we cannot provide guides on how to create one here because there is so much information elsewhere that it is not even necessary to reproduce the guides here to eliminate double, triple, quadruple efforts already put forth.

Thus, I encourage you to visit sites such as www.911cd.net/forums, or http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ for instructions. For an imagex plugin, you can see this page for my imagex plugin for Bartpe: http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...6&hl=imagex

Again, as I mentioned BartPE requires your XP install CD as the source. And I think it can also use Windows 2003.

Once you do make your recovery CD, you do need to pick which imaging software you will be using. As I mentioned, ImageX is a great tool but harder to use but free but a hefty download. I'm not familiar with DriveImageXML so I can't comment on that.

I believe if you search for Norton Ghost 2003 version, which can be run from a floppy - requires no recovery CD creation, then it's a great alternative. I think you can find it for < 10 bucks.

Basically, in your for you to achieve your goal, you need some determination first, then you need to do some reading on pages I mentioned, and I'm sure you'll succeed and when you do make your recovery CD you'll be rewarded with an image of your HDD.

[Andromeda43]

For years, I've been setting up PC's and then making a "Ghost" image of the HD to CD's or DVD.

I've been using "Norton's Ghost 2003" for years now. Still works great on XP.

That's the simplest way to make a restore disk.

That's how Toshiba makes their Factory Restore CD's.

It can also be done to a USB drive or a second internal Hard Drive.

The options are many but the Program is still just as simple to use.

Never install it on a HD, but always run it from a DOS boot disk.

Lately, I've found that the "Sea Tools" disk from Seagate and the "Max Blast" disk from Maxtor do a real good job of backing up a HD. Either will make a bootable copy of Vista on a second HD.

Good Luck,

Andromeda

[ranjeetmalik4444]

Use Norton Ghost Or Acronis Snap Deploy.....I use ghost to make the .gho image file of my c: drive and to restore it after a virus atack took only 3 mins.but took 25-30 min to take backup....