Boot USB stick on a PC that don't support USB Boot

[jaclaz]

xtremee,

sorry, I had misunderstood your original question.

You have ONLY two choices available (apart a new motherboard):

1) Edit your BIOS, VERY, VERY, and I mean VERY risky, NOT recommended

2) Try using PLoP boot manager:

http://www.plop.at/

http://www.plop.at/en/bootmngrusblog.html

Try #2) above, if it does not work we can try to find an app for "flipping the bit" of the stick, though before this you should be sure that your BIOS actually boots from "fixed" USB device (another already "flipped" stick or USB Hard Disk).

jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

@ Ascii2,

xtremee's USB controllers should be USB 1.1

UHCI --------------► older USB 1.x

OHCI --------------► Newer USB 1.x

EHCI ---------------► USB 2.0

So I think mine USB may be 1.1 !!

try UltraISO ( http://www.ezbsystems.com/ultraiso/download.htm ); its image write formats seem to be supported by your BIOS (make sure the device is set to boot in Boot Order)

.

I don't have the problem with making my USB flash driver a bootable one. The problem is my BIOS don't support boot from USB flash driver so it is not available in the boot order.

Well at least VIA, SIS and ALI Open Host Controllers were USB 1.0. I remember battling them when I worked for Iomega.

[xtremee]

@ jaclaz,

1st I don't know what to say to you?!! my words can't appreciate all the help and support you give to me

Thank you man.

2nd as usual Questions

1) Edit your BIOS, VERY, VERY, and I mean VERY risky, NOT recommended

Even If I am going to try this option, there are not any new version of BIOS for my PC that support USB !!

2) Try using PLoP boot manager:

This working with me. yeah finally I boot USB

But the boot process is not complete

I have Live Linux in my USB stick. When I boot from it

1. vmlinuz -------------------- OK

2. initrd.gz ------------------- don't complete the loading and it [►restart◄] !!

So, what may the case of this problem?

http://www.plop.at/en/bootmngrusblog.html

I have some Qs about this page.

Q1. In the [Features] there is No extra partition for the boot manager.

I don't hear about any need to make a partition for boot only!! and If this is right, Why should I do that? as I have a primary partition that I can use it for boot, What will be its size?

Q2. In the [Linked partitions - hotkeys] section

You select, what partition you want to boot with this profile. The boot manager set a bios drive number automatically. It's possible to change it with another key. How this could be? If I load/use a profile it will have the path for the OS to load it.

Try #2) above, if it does not work we can try to find an app for "flipping the bit" of the stick, though before this you should be sure that your BIOS actually boots from "fixed" USB device (another already "flipped" stick or USB Hard Disk).

for the seek of knowledge, How this can be done? also Is that will going to change some bits in the assembly of the stick controller ?

==============

@ Tripredacus,

Well at least VIA, SIS and ALI Open Host Controllers were USB 1.0

What are you mean by that?!!

--

Xtreme

[jaclaz]

xtremee,

please note that I wasn't talking about flashing your current BIOS with an updated one released by the motherboard manufacturer, something, that given that the proper procedure is followed is NOT risky.

I was talking about EDITING your BIOS code, basically get from another motherboard manufacturer or from the same manufacturer (for another board), a Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG, for the same MB chipset, with the USB booting enabled, than edit/copy/paste/modify the binary to make it work on your motherboard. This is VERY, VERy, VERY risky.

About PLoP, I don't get you.

Why the heck are you trying to do "all at once"?

It is very possible that your current Linux on USB stick is NOT "compatible" with PLoP, and something needs to be modified within it.

You have alredy been very "lucky", and you should thank PLoP Author for this, that the program starts booting!

Try using PLoP at first with good ol'DOS, if it works, try with a very "simple" Linux, and if it works, try again with a more "complete" one.

jaclaz

[xtremee]

Jaclaz

I was talking about EDITING your BIOS code, basically get from another motherboard manufacturer or from the same manufacturer (for another board), a Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG, for the same MB chipset, with the USB booting enabled, than edit/copy/paste/modify the binary to make it work on your motherboard. This is VERY, VERy, VERY risky.

Very interesting

Is there is any tut for that?! and Is this process done using assembly language or C ?

Why the heck are you trying to do "all at once"?

I already have a linux on my stick as I use it on the laptop. So it was the first thing that I give it a try till I prepare another OS on the stick.

---

Xtreme

Edited September 25, 2008 by xtremee

[Tripredacus]

==============

@ Tripredacus,

Well at least VIA, SIS and ALI Open Host Controllers were USB 1.0

What are you mean by that?!!

--

Xtreme

Those are chipset examples. VIA did end up being better later on, but SIS and ALI were highly suspect. For example, they didn't work with USB Drives of any sort.

[Ascii2]

try UltraISO ( http://www.ezbsystems.com/ultraiso/download.htm ); its image write formats seem to be supported by your BIOS (make sure the device is set to boot in Boot Order)

.

I don't have the problem with making my USB flash driver a bootable one. The problem is my BIOS don't support boot from USB flash driver so it is not available in the boot order.

If you are using a BIOS acquired from your motrherboard manufactured BIOS dowloads, then your BIOS should support booting to USB. If it does not, a defect in the BIOS or motherboard exists.

BIOSes are not written consistently to support a method for boot of a USB flash device. Method of setting the drive bootable should be chosen compatible with BIOS (often, it is not obvious which method).

[xtremee]

@ Ascii2

BIOSes are not written consistently to support a method for boot of a USB flash device

ًWhy are you saying that?!

[Tripredacus]

@ Ascii2

BIOSes are not written consistently to support a method for boot of a USB flash device

ًWhy are you saying that?!

Because it's true. Some BIOS sees USB flash as a regular hard drive, some see as USB HDD, some see different and some not at all. There is no standard to define how a BIOS should see a UFD unfortunately.

[Ascii2]

@ Ascii2

BIOSes are not written consistently to support a method for boot of a USB flash device

ًWhy are you saying that?!

Because it seems like you are not correctly identifying the issue you may be experiencing. The statement was intended to help you rethink the issue (like identifying the method(s) compatible with your BIOS to make a flash drive bootable).

[vindoze]

Hi

Over the last couple of weeks I have been trawling the net, the jumping-off point being this very helpful discussion. Hard disk on the blink, old motherboard, old BIOS, from last millenium ... Have been temporising with the Kanotix(flavour of Knoppix) Live CD. Managed to set up the distribution on a 4Gb USB Stick. Absolutely no BIOS support, so the PLoP USB boot floppy did not help at all, and could not boot PLoP Linux from a USB stick.

Finally came to 'kexec-loader' boot floppy, which seems to be just the ticket! Downloaded from

http://www.solemnwarning.net/kexec-loader/

@ jaclaz,

2) Try using PLoP boot manager:

This working with me. yeah finally I boot USB

But the boot process is not complete

I have Live Linux in my USB stick. When I boot from it

1. vmlinuz -------------------- OK

2. initrd.gz ------------------- don't complete the loading and it [►restart◄] !!

So, what may the case of this problem?

--

Xtreme

Booting Kanotix from USB stick reached:-

VFS: Mounted root (ext2 filesystem) {I believe is end of kernel}

...

initrd-tools: 0.1.77 {within initrd?}

mount: unknown filesystemtype 'devfs'

usbcore: registered new driver usbfs

usbcore: registered new driver hub

USB Mass Storag support registered

FATAL: Module sd_mod not found

...

Kernel panic ...

I presume 'devfs' is also on a module which could not be downloaded from USB, because USB support had not yet been enabled, and likewise module 'sd_mod' could not be downloaded from USB because 'sd_mod' was required for USB support.

Well, kexec-loader has some sort of facility for loading modules which the target kernel might need, and which I shall further explore. Would appreciate help in finding out which module is required for 'devfs'.

P.S. Shall now try my luck with PLoP Linux

[jaclaz]

I am afraid that's specifically a "linux" side feature/problem, I guess you might have better luck posting the problem on a more "linux oriented" board or on boot-land.

The Author of kexec-loader is a member there:

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4636

I would also try with other versions of Linux Live distro's maybe that problem is specific to the Kanotix distro and the way it is configured.

jaclaz

[xtremee]

Hi all

It is working now. The Linux on my USB pen drive is boot that is after I install PLOP Linux to my MBR of the Hard disk.

Thanks for all of your help also thanks for PLOP developer for this great support

[vindoze]

I am afraid that's specifically a "linux" side feature/problem, I guess you might have better luck posting the problem on a more "linux oriented" board or on boot-land.

The Author of kexec-loader is a member there:

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4636

I would also try with other versions of Linux Live distro's maybe that problem is specific to the Kanotix distro and the way it is configured.

jaclaz

Thanks for the tip. Will go there next (to given link).

Have made quite a bit of progress since.

It appears I have a USB hub. However from this hub and even from an extension hub attached to this hub have been able to load PLoP Linux from a USB stick using 'kexec-loader'!

SPB-Linux boot floppy had been able to pass me over to their Linux System on USB long before, however I had ended up in an endless Midnight Commander loop, and I had never been a fan of Norton Commander., but PLoP is more flexible, all credit to them:)

Reached a half-way solution now after many attempts at different combinations. Consists of a two-boot process. First of all boot PLoP from USB and then change root to the Kanotix distribution. It's not ideal, but at least it frees 32Mb of my 64Mb RAM, which was before occupied by the Live CD's RAM disk, and I can even get X up! So now have Kanotix on first partition of USB stick, then swap partition and finally on last 64Mb partition PLoP Linux.

The ideal solution of course is to make a kernel with the requisite USB and SCSI support modules. Advice for which I shall seek on the recommended boards.

vindoze