New file server

[Zxian]

So... I'm looking to build a large file server to handle all of the data in my household - backups, music, video, installers - EVERYTHING.

Motherboard

ASUS P5GZ-MX mATX LGA775 945GZ

CPU

Intel Celeron 440 2.0GHZ

RAM

OCZ Gold XTC PC2-6400 2X1GB

OS Hard drive

2x 80GB Seagate 7200.9 in RAID1 (already have in another system)

Storage drives

3x Western Digital SE16 500GB - WD5000AAKS

RAID controller

Areca ARC1220 with BBU

PSU

Corsair HX520 520W

I'm going to be starting with the 3 500GB drives for 1TB and then expanding the array as needed. All of this is going to go into my CMStacker 810 case, so that's taken care of. This system is going to be serving files, downloading torrents, and running BOINC projects when idle. That's it. Chances are it'll still be faster than any of my current systems, but in terms of high end CPU or motherboard performance - I don't need it.

The only problem I can see at the moment is the fact that the HX520 has only 4 SATA connectors. Does anyone know of a PSU that has more, or are there SATA power splitters like there are for molex? I'm guessing there are, but I've never seen any.

Any thoughts? Suggestions?

[nmX.Memnoch]

Motherboard

ASUS P5GZ-MX mATX LGA775 945GZ

That's a decent motherboard. However, I think I would look for a 965G based motherboard that has a true X16 slot (that one is physically X16 but electrically X4). PCIe is downwards compatible so you can run a X1, X4, X8 or X16 device in a X16/X16 slot. I know the RAID controller still won't use the other 12 lanes, but you have it for future upgrades (see recommendations below).

RAID controller

Areca ARC1220 with BBU

I really have to give a strong recommendation for a 3ware controller...especially if you're already going to spend that much. I've been using their PATA/SATA RAID controllers for the last few years and couldn't be happier with them. Not to mention that all of their newer controllers have 64-bit LBA support...so the largest drives to come for the foreseeable future will work on the controllers.

PSU

Corsair HX520 520W

........

The only problem I can see at the moment is the fact that the HX520 has only 4 SATA connectors. Does anyone know of a PSU that has more, or are there SATA power splitters like there are for molex? I'm guessing there are, but I've never seen any.

You're pretty much going to have to get a workstation/server class power supply for more than 4 connectors. I have a Thermaltake 680W PSU in my Dual Xeon system that has 8 SATA connectors.

But to answer your other question...yes, they do make SATA power splitters.

Another thing you can get is a drive cage. 3ware has a good one and Supermicro makes several as well. That 8x2.5" drive enclosure looks interesting...especially since you can get 7200RPM 2.5" SATA drives. Of course, the cost will go through the roof and the biggest drive right now is 200GB...but it's still interesting.

[jcarle]

RAID controller

Areca ARC1220 with BBU

I really have to give a strong recommendation for a 3ware controller...especially if you're already going to spend that much. I've been using their PATA/SATA RAID controllers for the last few years and couldn't be happier with them. Not to mention that all of their newer controllers have 64-bit LBA support...so the largest drives to come for the foreseeable future will work on the controllers.

HA! Told you! Now you heard it from someone else.

[ripken204]

The only problem I can see at the moment is the fact that the HX520 has only 4 SATA connectors. Does anyone know of a PSU that has more, or are there SATA power splitters like there are for molex? I'm guessing there are, but I've never seen any.

you can check into getting extra sata power cords from corsair. i have heard of other ppl doing that for some modular power supplies.

[gamehead200]

The only problem I can see at the moment is the fact that the HX520 has only 4 SATA connectors. Does anyone know of a PSU that has more, or are there SATA power splitters like there are for molex? I'm guessing there are, but I've never seen any.

Does the PSU only have SATA connectors? If it doesn't: http://store.pchcables.com/duseatapoad.html

[jcarle]

The only problem I can see at the moment is the fact that the HX520 has only 4 SATA connectors. Does anyone know of a PSU that has more, or are there SATA power splitters like there are for molex? I'm guessing there are, but I've never seen any.

Does the PSU only have SATA connectors? If it doesn't: http://store.pchcables.com/duseatapoad.html

I'm not a big fan of those 4-pin molex to SATA power connectors since they always leave out the 3.3v feed.

Why don't you just get the HX620, it comes with 8 SATA power connectors right off the bat?

[Zxian]

@nmX - I965 chipset or higher - will do.

I do take your recommendations very seriously, but as any customer who's gonna spend money, I'd like to know more about why you like the 3ware cards. Is it stability, support, ease of use, performance... etc? You say that you're happy about them, but why?

@jcarle - I guess the HX620 it is... or something like it. Another option would be to run my two OS drives on the molex connectors that they have, and keep the SATA connectors for devices that need them. From what I've read, the 3.3V line is primarily used for hotswappable drives, which those two would never be anyways.

[nmX.Memnoch]

@nmX - I965 chipset or higher - will do.

I do take your recommendations very seriously, but as any customer who's gonna spend money, I'd like to know more about why you like the 3ware cards. Is it stability, support, ease of use, performance... etc? You say that you're happy about them, but why?

-- Stability: I've used seven different cards (three different models) in different systems over the past few years. None of them have ever given us any stability or reliability issues.

-- Support: Drivers are updated frequently enough. They support all the major OSes as well. They also have a very nice web management interface that will allow you to configure controller settings, create/delete/reconfigure arrays and monitor the health of everything. You can even setup email alerts in case there's a problem with anything (overheating, drive died, array rebuild start/finish etc). Dunno about warranty support...I haven't had to use it.

-- Ease Of Use: They probably have the most brain-dead controller BIOS I've seen yet. There's nothing you can do wrong in the BIOS and setting up arrays couldn't be any easier. I'd say it's even easier than the Intel Matrix RAID BIOS.

-- Performance: Pair it up with the right drives and you won't beat the performance. The controllers we have in each of our Precision 650's at work are a 9550SX-4LP SATA 3Gbps controller in 64-bit/66MHz slots with 4x400GB 7200.10 drives (two RAID1 arrays). It performs VERY well. I have two controllers in my file server at home. One is an eight-channel 7506-8 PATA controller in a 64-bit/66MHz slot with 2x80GB RAID1 7200.8 drives (it used to have 6x250GB 7200.8 RAID5 drives as well). The other is a 9550SX-4LP SATA 3Gbps controller in a 64-bit/133MHz PCI-X slot with 4x400GB 7200.10 RAID5. I've never found myself saying "gee...that file should've copied faster than that". I've never really ran any benchmarks because I don't put too much stock in them. I'm more about real world usage. Honestly at this point I know that I can purchase a 3ware controller and it'll just work, and work well.

Don't forget that you can also look at SAS controllers. SATA drives will also work on those controllers. We have a Dell PowerEdge 2900 that we ordered with a SAS controller. One channel has 2x73GB 15K RPM SAS drives for the OS. The other channel has 8x750GB 7200.10 (the enterprise version) drives. That's one of the fastest setups I've ever seen. We did a 3GB file copy test back onto the same drive set (open a directory with a bunch of files, select some of them and choose copy, then paste right back into the same directory). It took less than a minute! NewEgg shows a PCIe LSI Logic eight-port SAS controller for $500US. The four port version lists at about $180US. Dell's PERC SAS controllers are rebranded LSI Logic controllers.

Edited July 20, 2007 by nmX.Memnoch

[Zxian]

Thanks for the points nmX. You're helping me lean towards the 3ware cards...

You mentioned SAS controllers. Aside from the ability to run SAS drives (which I don't really plan on doing any time soon), what would be the advantage of that over a SATA controller?

Also... a lot of RAID controllers I'm seeing now are using ML connectors (like the 9650SE-8ML). From what I understand, it's 4 SATA ports on the one end, and one special plug on the other. I'm assuming that it's not required to use all four of those cables at once, right?

[nmX.Memnoch]

To be completely honest, my exposure to SAS is pretty limited. SAS drives are of course faster, come in higher spindle speeds and made for the enterprise so they're of the highest reliability. I have two Dell PE6850's that have 2.5" SAS drives and I've done two PE2900's with SAS controllers...one with a pure SAS setup and another with a mixture (the one mentioned above). I'm not sure if the speed increase was from using the SATA drive on the SAS controller, the drives being optimized for enterprise usage (probably the likely answer) or just the sheer fact that we had eight drives in the array so the I/O was spread out.

I was basically throwing that out there as another option, especially considering that some of the controllers run in the same price range. The one thing you're going to want to look into if you're planning on using drives that large is controllers that support arrays larger than 2TB. The majority of controllers will cut you off at a 2TB limit. I've heard this is because of some partition limitation with Windows but I've never been able to find any documetation from Microsoft stating there's such a limit. I've always seen it that NTFS4 and NTFS5 can support 16EB (exabyte) partitions...but that doesn't mean the OS itself can.

AFAIK, you're correct on the multilane controllers in that you don't have to use all lanes in a cable at once. As a matter of fact, I know that to be true of SAS controllers. I don't see any reason why you would be required to fill a channel. That'd be a HUGE step backwards from PATA...even from the early days of SCSI.

BTW...nmX is my gaming clan tag. 'Memnoch' is my gaming nick (my friends shorten it to 'Mem' most of the time) and Curtis is my real name.

Edited July 20, 2007 by nmX.Memnoch

[Zxian]

@Memnoch - Thanks for the great information. From your recommendation and explanations (and jcarle's constant bugging me) I think I'll switch over to the 3ware 9650SE card for my controller.

I also read about the 2TB limit, but from what I understand, it's not a Windows or NTFS issue - it's the controller. People have usually been able to get around it though by building arrays up to 2TB, and then merging them with other arrays by using JBOD under Windows. To be honest - I would never setup such a system (any recovery from outside the OS is nearly impossible), but that's how others have "fixed" the problem.

[nmX.Memnoch]

@Memnoch - Thanks for the great information. From your recommendation and explanations (and jcarle's constant bugging me) I think I'll switch over to the 3ware 9650SE card for my controller.

You're very welcome. You won't be disappointed with the decision.

I guess I should've also asked what your reasoning was behind choosing the Areca controller. I've never even heard of them. I did notice that it comes with a BBU...you can get that as an addon for the 3ware 9650SE.

I also read about the 2TB limit, but from what I understand, it's not a Windows or NTFS issue - it's the controller.

That's what I thought as well but I was told by more than one major OEM (Dell, HP and IBM) that the reason for the controller limitation was some Windows limitation. My guess is that the salesperson didn't completely understand the issue.

At any rate, the latest 3ware controllers can handle larger than 2TB arrays.

People have usually been able to get around it though by building arrays up to 2TB, and then merging them with other arrays by using JBOD under Windows. To be honest - I would never setup such a system (any recovery from outside the OS is nearly impossible), but that's how others have "fixed" the problem.

I would never setup such a creature either. I am 100% against software RAID setups.

[puntoMX]

It seems that it´s not the controller or Windows that has the limit of 2TB, it´s the drives (interface protocol) that has 2TB limit still, like we saw back then with UW320.

EDIT: Sofware RAID would be good for storage, but indeed less for performance...

Edited July 21, 2007 by puntoMX

[nmX.Memnoch]

The 2TB limit seems to be taken care of with the latest controllers. Well, the latest 3ware controllers anyway. I haven't looked at the specs for the latest LSI Logic or Adaptec controllers lately.

[Zxian]

Ok, so there's a big sale at the local hardware store. I already picked up another couple of WD5000AAKS drives for $95 a piece... can't really complain at that. I just wanted to make sure that I'm not going to be throwing away my money at the parts I hope to get.

Motherboard

ASUS P5K-V ATX G33 LGA775 Conroe DDR2 2PCI-E16 1PCI-E1 3PCI SATA2 Video Sound GBLAN 1394

CPU

Intel Pentium Dual Core E2160 LGA775 1.8GHZ 800FSB 1MB

RAM

OCZ Platinum XTC REV.2 PC2-6400 2X1GB

For the motherboard, I was debating between the P5K, P5K-V, or the P5KC, but I don't think I'll be putting DDR3 into this system anyways (so out goes the P5KC), and I'd rather have a spare PCI-E x16 slot for something else - who knows, maybe another RAID card eventually - so add the $10 for the P5K-V.

Oh, and I'll be getting the 9650SE-8LPML card with a BBU. The only problem is that it's a 1-2 week wait for it to come in...