awkduck
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I'd say the average "Windows" users didn't really acknowledge that a Java application they used, could likely run on another operating system. But there were hobbyists writing Java applications. Maybe because they didn't pirate VisualBasic, and Java was free. For most of the uninitiated, Java seemed something like VisualBasic; even though they only had a few things in common. But, if you weren't contemplating the multiple platform aspect, you where likely only looking at concepts like bytecode.
From a programming point of view, VisualBasic made for faster development of light-ish applications. But Java was a more expressive language. VisualBasic could use the native U.I., in a Rapid-Application-Development like style. Still, Java's U.I. tended to be more expressive. The run-time penalty was higher for Java. And Java was bulky.
It did seem like Java gained some popularity, when VisualBasic was initially killed. I don't think it ever got as popular as Delphi, untill after Delphi initially died. C++ was king.
I think 2005-2010ish Java seemed to gain some average user traction. It probably started with the switch to JAVA, in AP Computer Science classes (2004). For a short time it was C++ (1999-2003). Starting in 1984, it had been Pascal.
I don't have any hard data to follow. But I wonder where Java would be, if it hadn't been for its long standing place in education. It is still there, today. If some other language had be used, would Minecraft have still been written in Java?
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4 hours ago, Eddie Phizika said:
Would anyone mind to explain me, in a historical context, why Sun/Oracle gave companies who used 9x and 9x users the respect they deserved and let they have reasonably developed JVMs and runtimes for a while? It may be a bit offtopic because this is related to java 8 on kernelex (and not java 5 which was the last version for 98 oficially), but i would be pleased to hear about.
That is a kind of "wide open" question.
-Why did they not charge for it?
They can charge for several types of support. It should be noted, some features were developed to meet "paying" client needs. That kind of support is worth a lot of money. Also, having a developer walk you through your difficulties, while using their product, isn't something you'll often get for free. Especially if it is a big project, you needed done yesterday.
-Why did they build it in the first place?
To make a standardized platform, on top of platforms that are incompatible. Looks good, If you need something to work; but you don't want to rewrite it, for every platform.
Why did they make it for Windows, and not just for *nix and Apple/Mac?
If you are going to sell advice, on using a wrench, that advice should apply to as many cars as possible.
Although, I'm not sure I would consider Windows users deserving? And considering the result that Java is, I'm not sure what kind of respect it is, that you are insinuating the users/companies deserve. You can hold others in poor or low respect. If Java is the symbol of that respect, I am not sure that you are saying anything nice about Windows users.
Note: I mean this all kindheartedly. No actual terseness is intended.
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I really should have started my own thread, about running from USB. For my part, it's running from memory; but booted from USB.
I run most Win9x systems this way, but not always booting from USB.
This is just another note/update.
I recently ran into, on and off, blue screen parity errors. On this particular machine, I was using memdisk (Syslinux) with Grub2. It could've been an issue, with the shared Video memory. It is fixed in BIOS at 32mb. I think it was more likely something to do with how Windows/Himem.sys calculates available memory, when using some memory for a HardDisk image.
The machine has 1.5gb of RAM. The disk image is 300mb (on the dot). When Windows did successfully load, it would report around 1200mb of memory. After loading, there does not seem to be any stability issues. There is probably some hardware/software initializing sequence, that determines the pass or fail. My assumption would be that this is "more" related to my hardware's initialization. By the time Windows gets a chance to load, the difference between pass or fail has likely already been set.
Several memory sticks were swapped out. Some 512mb and others 1Gb. I never tested with only the built in 512mb (this is a laptop). Memory tests cleared the memory as healthy. I am running with Rloew's memory patch.
The solution has been to set "MaxPhysPage=", in SYSTEM.INI, and under the "[386Enh]" section. When you figure the amount to set, the drive image must be included in your calculation. You do not set how much memory you expect to see reported in "System Properties". You set that amount, plus the HardDisk image amount. Take the total desired amount, in megabytes, multiplied by 256 and converted into hexadecimal.
There is now no occasional parity error, and I have near total memory available. I wasn't sure it that was going to be the case. I started with a setting well below the total amount, and then worked my way up. As this is a live HardDrive image, I could've saved and booted the "live" image, after each adjustment. I just used Qemu, from the live environment, and booted the stored image file to Dos. The Dos text editor provides a quick modification path, to "SYSTEM.INI". This saves on USB writes and time.
There may be a different solution. For now, this seems to work great.
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Yeah, that is a pretty clean fix. Good job.
There should be an emoji, like the one above, but with embarrassed red cheeks. That way the eye roll is directed at self, and no one else. Though, its pretty silly that I nitpick it.
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You could compare the original and modified versions, of the patched files. If it isn't too crazy of a patch, you might be able to manually patch those third party programs (they may depend on the newer Shell32/unpatchable). Or, maybe you can redirect them to Shell32.w98, provided it still works.
Isn't there a 98lite option to just remove the IE integration, leaving the WinME shell?
This may not interest you, but there are alternative shells for Windows. And you can even find alternatives to Explorer, for file management. Depending on your aim, this might displace the need for the Win95 shell.
I use Rloews 64bit filesystem patch. For me, this made the Explorer shell non-functional (for most it does not). But I never intended on using Explorer, as a shell/file-manager. I do not miss Explorer.
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I have thought about using the "Mini PCI-E", from a laptop Wifi module. You can get a "Mini PCI-E" ribbon, to make it an external interface. Then you would need something to convert it to PCI-E, and connect to something like this. Then you could "potentially" use a Win9x PCI video card.
Or maybe something with this, this, or this.
I've had some laptops that won't pass post, unless the original device is installed. But not that many.
Otherwise, I have no idea it this would work.
It doesn't help, if you are on the go. If it worked, it would provide an option for at home.
Older laptops use "Mini PCI". That might work too, but I wonder if vendors did more non-standard things.
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19 hours ago, sonyu said:
maybe GM965 ? Does it have w98 drivers?
Not for the 965GM. For 865g*, yes.
19 hours ago, sonyu said:Ok, there is no Libretto 100CT alternative netbook with same hardware + more ram and fanless, right?
There is an awful lot of machines, in the world. But there is nothing, at the tip of my tongue.
19 hours ago, sonyu said:buy a PCMCIA GPU
I haven't seen any, that would provide Win9x 3D acceleration. There was mention of a Trio64, but I don't think that chip is going to do what you want (too old).
19 hours ago, sonyu said:Maybe I can make some holes so that it doesn't heat so much?
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, you could replace the heatsink and just unplug the fan. Though, this is custom work. A micrometer would be nice, to let you decide how much space you have.
If the replacement was all copper, and maybe even covered a larger area, you might not need the fan.
The copper bar, on the heatsink, is a "heat rail". It is designed to transfer the heat, to where it can be cooled. It goes to a pretty small aluminum finned cube, that the air vents through. Compare this to modern designs, and the amount of heat being dealt with is much less. You might be able to get away with a full aluminum/graphite heatsink. But copper would improve your chances.
Essentially, I'm trying to point out how small/thin the copper heat railing is. By modern standard, that doesn't move much heat.
I think this is a "Pentium II"? It is a given, that desktop CPUs are more powerful and run hotter then their laptop CPU siblings. Not very often did the desktop slot "Pentium II" CPUs have fans. They just had a fair amount of aluminum on them. I've never had a desktop socket "Pentum II", but I am sure they only had fans because of the smaller heatsink. Some slot "Pentium III" CPUs had no fan.
So you only have a fan, because of the small space and the cost of copper.
Edit: This is an interesting idea, for a heat sink. The Wyse Cx0 has a vent, right above that. If you think about the Toughbook CF-18, it has a flat aluminum heat sink; it spreads out under the keyboard. The CF-18 has no vents. I can't remember which model, but I've seen a Toughbook using nothing but copper heat/thermal railing, for cooling. It has something like an "X" design, with the center over the CPU/GPU area.
There are options for utilizing the space you have. The "X" design could branch out, where ever you have space. But the Wyse Cx0 design might be easier to mount. Laptops using screws, to mount the heaksink, may make the job easier; just re-use the same screw posts and maybe even screws. A mod that does not alter the device, makes it easy to restore the original configuration.
18 hours ago, sonyu said:Do you think VBEMP can enable VGA output (dongle) on VAIO P11Z ? Intel GMA 500
On some of my machines, if you select external display (bios), it works just fine. Display cloning also works; when its a bios option. It is less likely to work, through "Display Settings". Dual independent display, may not be an option.
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@jaclaz Very good. That would do it. I agree with the idea of the 5k pot. Although, the older three pin fans may not be that picky.
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The best I have found so far, is that it has an application (probably Win2k/XP) that lets you control the CPU and fan speed. Many laptops have such an application. Maybe theirs offers a low power fanless setting.
Unlikeliness - That GPU probably needs to be fanned.
Potential - There are versions with Pentium-M and Pentium-4. Pentium-M is usually higher processing potential, with less voltage. But I don't actually know that much about mobile Pentium-4. I avoided them, after a friends P4 Thinkpad got so hot it warped the fan vents.
The Pentium-M reverted back to earlier high-end Pentium-III designs; which in turn paved the way for core-duo and so on.
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12 hours ago, MrMateczko said:
might require modding BIOS to avoid CPU fan error if it causes a system halt
I don't know how the, variable speed, fans are wired. I think they are three pin. There may be a way to trick the bios. It may be enough to just pass the post test. It doesn't seem like they test all speeds and performance. I haven't played with it yet. I have a T40 I could test on, or maybe a T41; if it is functional.
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I've had a "Pentium I" (133Mhz) and two "Pentium II" (450Mhz) Thinkpads. The Pentium II laptops had NeoMagic audio/video (no 3D) and fans. You could install 512Mb of ram, 47*Mb could be seen (472?). The firmware update didn't fix that. They didn't have Ethernet.
The "Pentium I" had NeoMagic video and I believe Crystal Semiconductor audio (some SoundBlaster support), and no fan. I had over 64Mb of ram, in it. But I doubt it supported up to 512Mb. It also did not have Ethernet.
You might be able to find a "Pentium II" Thinkpad without a fan. Could be harder to find one that has 3D and no fan, but possible(?). Some 3D chips, back then, didn't even have heatsinks.
The issue with Thinkpads, is that they have a large "Fan Club". It can be harder to find the really nice ones. I very much like the S series (30/31). The R and A series are okay too. The I1400/I1500 are also kinda neat.
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1 hour ago, sonyu said:
So it doesn't have a fan?
No fan. They are sometimes used in the desert. You cannot have sand blowing into the fan vent. Many models are said to survive being dropped into water, by design. The harddrive caddie, and the rest of the system, are designed to resist moderate impact.
They have some office models, they have fans. But you can tell by the simple appearance, that it those are not "rugged" laptops.
I've had the CF-29 and Cf-18. No fans. I bought a "non-functional" CF-28. I gutted it, to use the shell, for a custom "Banana Pi" laptop build. It had no fan.
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5 minutes ago, sonyu said:
I think I just need to try different VIA HyperionPro drivers versions and maybe a Kernel Ex or as much updates as I can on W98 or WME to get the gpu working
cause the comment of the HP user in vogons isn't bad at all.. I think there is an option to get it working...
Then you could let us know how to do it
It is always interesting to see peoples experience, with machines I don't own.
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The best match, I have seen, Is the Panasonic ToughBook CF-28. There are different models, some fall under the aim. It is also not as nice looking, compared to some of the others. You can get a Display with 1024x768 (touchscreen only has 800x600) Intel 830MG (up to 32Mb), CPU Pentium-M (maybe III) @ 1Ghz-800Mhz, AC97 audio, Maximum memory of 512Mb, Up to 10hrs (with two batteries, 4hrs with one), 2 PCMCIA slots, but I can't tell for certain if it is USB 1.1 or 2. I'm guessing, if Pentium-M, it would be USB2. A 800Mhz Pentium III, might have USB1.1.
If it was USB1.1, a PCMCIA card would fix that. But I have bough some PCMCIA, cards that don't always work reliably.
The issue with a ToughBook, is getting one in good shape and including the harddrive caddie. A nice one can sometimes be too expensive. These machines have been used by the Construction, Police, and Military. Some of the used ones are a bit worn.
Being a nitpicker, I often dislike Laptops with on-board memory. If that memory goes bad, you are stuck with it; unless you are skilled in circuit board repair. The Toughbook has 256Mb on-board with a slot for 256Mb expansion.
Note: I don't know how well the Intel 830MG performs, with 3D. I'm just assuming, that with up to 32Mb of unified memory, it does fine.
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8 hours ago, MrMateczko said:
Why not just unplug the fan and underclock the CPU? (might require modding BIOS to avoid CPU fan error if it causes a system halt)
You can use CrystalCPUID on 9x for this and there's plenty of software for DOS to slow down the CPU in it.
My ThinkPad T42p has Intel 855PM chipset and it seems to be the latest one from Intel that is fully officially supported under 98.
I should get motivated and test some of this.
Sonyu is aiming at 1Ghz, for the lowest speed. That makes it a little harder. But, the VIA laptop, near the beginning of the debate, likely performs near or less than a PIII 650-850Mhz mobile CPU. So that might be something for Sonyu to consider. But, using a 1.4Ghz as an example, throttling down to 800Mhz may still require a fan. If you could get a higher speed CPU down to 800-ish, it might work. I do wonder what a better Heat sink might do.
Your suggestion of the Intel GPU is probably the right path. Nvidia and ATI/Radeon GPUs will probably get much hotter. S3, Via, and Intel would be better.
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FantasyAcquiesce, probably has done what I have done, a time or two. It is easy to duplicate.
First you install Vbemp, then you install whatever Win2k+ driver has a matching hardware vendor and device identification, and finally you reboot with your new driver.
But you are not using the Win2k+ driver. You are using Vbemp. The registry changed the name of your device, to match the Win2k+ driver. But if you go to "Device Manager" > properties on the video device in "Display Adapters" > "Driver" tab > "Driver File Details", you will find the the Vbemp driver files are still listed.
FantasyAcquiesce has even said, in that thread:
QuoteI tried to run House of the Dead 2 and only got glitchy polygons...I guess this driver is no better than the VEMP one...
The Intel video driver from RetroSystemRevival will not work. In fact, if you don't install Vbemp first, you'll end up with the default (16 color 640x480).
I will gladly eat my words, if wrong. The only way to have evidence, the driver works, is to have a screenshot of the "Driver File Details".
But I've installed drivers from 2k/XP, on Win98, and have seen the results; even the exact same driver we are talking about. It doesn't work.
But, on the bright side, some of those Intel 8**G** chipset and video device drivers seem to support Win98. The device I pointed out had one. The issue is finding something without a fan. It seems anything that old, tends to have a fan.
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I haven't much info on this machine, but maybe the Xplore iX104C2 or iX104C3. It seems to come with the Intel 855GME. The audio is AC97. Up to 1Gb memory. 1Ghz or more.
I also have no experience with the Intel 855GME. But it appears to support Win9x. Maybe not Win95?
Edit: Nope. Watched a harddriver replacement video, and it has a fan.
But it is a fairly small fan, and in an ideal location. Temps me to try the C4 at 1.4Ghz, with CPU throttling and a custom (larger) heatsink (Digikey). However, it would probably need USB for a keyboard. So no unicorn here.
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31 minutes ago, sonyu said:
so it isn't something about Himem.sys or system.ini patch, right?
I'd say no. But we don't even know, for certain, that the conflict is the one causing the video issue. And we don't know if the laptop you are looking at has the same issue, or not.
33 minutes ago, sonyu said:Anyway will be hard to find this one and also to check if it's fanless...
The pics on Parkytowers show a fan.
34 minutes ago, sonyu said:Thanks
Well, I hope I'm not making it harder. But, you are very welcome.
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1 hour ago, sonyu said:
Can we know more info about the VIA chipset looking at these photos of the mobo:
Linux lpsci result for almost the same hardware can be found here (HP Mini-Note PC 2133) :
https://wiki.debian.org/InstallingDebianOn/HP/HP2133
And the owner tried Windows Millenium on it and posted the results here: https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=62888
It could be due to excessive Video RAM memory used (maybe) cause he has 2GB of ram or it could be Windows ME missing some updates, I don't know...
Strange cause he have problems even with VBEMP
The chip you are seeing, is likely the VT8237 (or variant). The one you want to see, is probably under that nice big heatsink.
The guy on Vogons suggests this:
QuoteP.S. I read that some non-VIA motherboards, based on VIA's chipsets have broken Windows 9x compatibility as opposed to VIA's own motherboards based on same chipsets. Perhaps this is the case. I hope someone can find a solution to this problem.
I don't know where he/she heard that. If true, the laptop you are looking at is a VIA motherboard. But it kinda looks like the HP is too.
Another thing to keep in mind, is that we don't know what driver he/she tried to install. There is no link. If you install a Win2k driver, it will often let you (using the .inf file). But no files are listed under "Device Manager", and you end up with with the default Windows driver (640x480 16bit). The registry tells "Device Manager" the correct new driver name, and itself says the device is working. But it is the old driver that is working. The comment about the mouse being invisible and then visible, during driver exchanges, makes it seem like the driver could have been correct.
And he/she may have a system conflict. Perhaps one that can't be resolved, on that system. Sometimes that fix is only provided for the modern supported OS. The conflict may also come from something installed. I've had issues with NUSB and Scitech Display Doctor. Although, I've never had a problem with Vbemp. So that is interesting. Unfortunately, this is a risk one takes sailing into less charted waters.
There is a screenshot showing a resource conflict. Sometimes you can manually adjust theses things, and everything will work out fine. It doesn't look like anyone suggested he/she try that. I noticed the resource conflict was related to ACPI BIOS. So there is the potential for this being broken Win9x support. But it is hard to tell.
I've personally had problems with VIA video drivers not working, on supported versions of Windows. The problem arises when the lowest supported version of Windows is near being dropped; and that being the version I am using.
I'd say this is a riskier laptop.
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2 hours ago, sonyu said:
Well, I look for:
- portable (laptop > tablet for what I'm looking for, but doesn't matter if it's a tablet or a convertible like this one)
- fanless
- 512 to 2gb ram
- > 1024x768
why fanless? Cause once you try you don't want anything else with current SSD prices and NVME NGFF speeds I prefer to loss some cpu power and have less noise. Well the real reason was because the fan of an old laptop that I have some ago, made lot of noise, I know there are tons of fan sizes and forms but I prefer without it since I discovered these type of devices running fanless cpus back in 2014. In terms of maintenance, of course over time the fan can make more noise.. so this is an extra point; you don't need to worry about it. just the right quantity of thermal grease and all will be FUN without FAN
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I know I can buy a weeCee or a thin client to have w98 and put a gpu on it, but I prefer to have a laptop so I can have my beloved w98 everywhere
So the candidates are:
VAIO X505 only sold in Japan if I'm not wrong, and this is compatible with Windows 98
Also the PCG-505
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Vaio_505_series
The first one looks amazing, will I need to say how much a "fruit" company was inspired by these to release it's "laptop air" ? If you take a look back in history, you'll see how amazing are all SONY designs. I love all of them. UMPCs, Picturebook C1, Vaio p11Z... hardware it's maybe a bit limited for some games, but it's amazing to have one of these small laptops with windows 98. Back in year 2000 I think these were more expensive than 2010s small laptops aka netbooks...
ENJOY the most beautiful laptop ever made:
Really difficult to find , and still very expensive when you find it online these days:
I have a Sony VAIO PCG-Z505RX.
Since it is older, it does have a fan. Although, it is not very loud. What I didn't know, when I bought it, was that it has a custom Ethernet connector. It required a special adapter for the actual RJ45 connection. It was an Ebay purchase, and didn't come with the adapter. It also required a special dongle for parallel, serial, and VGA. I eventually did hunt them both down. My particular model came with Neomagic audio and video. The audio is AC97 and the video lacks 3D acceleration (per specification). It also could not be upgraded beyond 128Mb of ram. Despite all of this, I still really like the machine.
The X505's Intel Extreme Graphics 2 should perform aptly. The one in the Ebay link "does" provide all the connectors. This laptop is certainly fanless.
As for the PCG 505, some of the V and R types seem up your alley. Wikipedia does not seem to specify the videos chips, for all of them. But some come with nice 3D acceleration. There are some nicely priced V and R types, on ebay, if you don't mind buying a harddrive separate. However, they all seem to have fans. I did "not" check every model. One may indeed be fanless. The question would then be, if fanless, what GPU does it have. When looking at the VAIOs, make sure to see a bottom picture. Some have fan vents, only on the bottom.
Edit: Something I've been meaning to try, is using a higher speed laptop and forcing the CPU throttle down. Then installing a slightly thicker heatsink (copper or graphite?), to replace the old one and it's fan. Intel Speed Step can be controlled in Dos, Windows, and Linux. Maybe one wouldn't even need to replace the heatsink. With 3D acceleration, it would probably be better if the video chip was a less performant one. I've been meaning to try this out, the target being a Thinkpad t42 with Radeon 7500 (Omega driver); but it died before I got the chance.
Note: Some laptops will not boot, with the fan disconnected. Some finessing may be required.
I suppose that is something you could consider, in your hunt. You might be able to aim for slightly beyond a Win98 video chip, if it is well supported by the one of the Win9x community driver packs (Nvidia/Radeon). Then the worst you might need to contend with, is a small USB audio adapter.
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4 hours ago, sonyu said:
Thanks for your research @awkduck !!
Yes, I know the standard of that era was 1024x768 (sometimes it can be forced to a higher resolution in w95 / w98 but I don't remember if it depends on the monitor connected or the gpu...)
Anyway, I found the a lightweight tablet, I need to check if it have a fan
It's a Pentium M
I need to check also the 3D support
What do you think?
And... does it have WDDM drivers (just in case I want to dual boot windows 7,8,10 one day)? I have seen it have NVIDIA Geforce 4 Go 420 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_Compaq_tc1100Not all versions come with nvidia gpu, I think this one has only "Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME "
Plenty of machines well exceed 1024x768. Though, it was certainly the average user resolution.
It doesn't look bad. If it has 3D support, it would be great!
I could nitpick at a gold brick. So any "negative" critique should be taken with a grain of salt.
It uses a real IDE interface. So you don't have to worry about a specialized SSD board, or anything of the sort. That is something to watch for on Tablets.
It might be interesting to watch some of the "teardown" videos (Youtube). They may give more info about the machine, compared to the average review video. Is the keyboard is a PS2 connection? If so, that would be a plus. It isn't terribly important, but might make things easier. For example, if you "Exit to Dos" from Windows. If the keyboard is USB, then bios supports PS2 emulation; until windows loads a USB driver for it. It can be tricky setting a system like that up. It wasn't mentioned on Reddit, so it probably was not a problem.
It might be good, to see how hard it is to reach and remove the heatsink. Often these machines perform better, with new thermal grease. If you do get into that, make sure you know how much thermal grease to use. Depending on how the heatsink seats, too much grease can cause overheating. Also, if it is conductive grease, you don't want to risk it shorting something, from extruded overflow.
It might be harder to find a teardown, with the removal of the heatsink. It would be interesting to see how the GPU is cooled. Often it is cooled by the same heatsink as the CPU. When combined like that, sometimes the CPU uses thermal grease, but the GPU has a thermal pad. There is probably nothing wrong with that. But as a "nitpicker" I prefer both use thermal grease. You can find thermal padding, at the usual online stores. You'd probably what to pay attention to thickness. And in this case, a little too thick would be better than too thin. However, in all honesty, you could probably run with old dried thermal grease, and never care. Especially, with a tablet like this. The CPU is probably throttled back or specifically designed for less heat. So the performance improvement, from thermal grease replacement, is probably less noticeable.
I like to have 3D support. But I'd use that tablet, even without it. I lost my gaming interests way back at "Halo - Combat Evolved".
On the rare occasion, I look to play a game, Dos or older Windows games (software rendering) often due the trick. Probably more often it would be a console emulator. There are plenty of older versions, that don't require 3D acceleration (no N64,PS1,etc). It seems games you can easily start and then walk away from, get more attention from me. But every once in awhile I like to revisit something like ONI.
If 3D acceleration is a sticking point, make sure it has it. Otherwise you'll eventually end up lurking about for something else.
If the machine does support 3D acceleration, the 32Mb video ram should be okay. The driver link on Reddit is dead. It links to Helpjet, which went offline a while ago. But, I'm pretty sure Win9x drivers, for Nvidia, are well archived.
If it didn't have 3D, and you could live without it, then I don't see you having an issue, with the overall aspects of this tablet. There is even a chance that SBEMU would give you pure Dos support, for the SoundBlaster. You might make sure that it has AC97 for audio. It would almost have to. Its probably a safe bet.
I also choose fanless machines. I really dislike hunting for a replacement fan (keeping old machines alive). But it also comes in handy, when recording audio. What drives your hunt for a fanless machine?
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@sonyu I found a couple of fanless laptops, near Win98 era. They are a bit bulky and most have no Win9x 3D support. The ToughBook and Getac laptops are mostly fanless. They have some Centrino Pentium-M and Core 2 Duo machines. The Core 2 Duo machines would probably need USB audio. The Pentium-M machines have AC97, and audio should work find with Win9x.
If you hunted, you might find a Panasonic ToughBook CF-28. It supposedly has an "Intel 830MG (Win9x 3D compatible)". They range between 1Ghz and 800Mhz. But it is a Pentium III. However, I bet it would run circles around the Wyse laptop. But the real problem would be the resolution. A 1024x768 maximum, with some models only supporting a 800x600 maximum. I guess it depends if it is a touchscreen or not.
They are probably not going to reach the display sizes you've mentioned. And they all have strange harddrive caddies. If you don't have a caddie, you can't install a harddrive. This is unlike many other laptop brands, where the caddie is more like a guide. These caddies have the drive connector in them. The caddie then connects to some a non standard connector, inside the laptop.
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The ParkyTowers site lists "integrated in CN896" in the Video section.
If you scroll down a bit, on the ParkyTower page, you'll find the results of "lspci". You'll have to click it to expand. While CN896 is listed in there, it is combined with two others. So you'd have to determine how he derived that it was indeed a "CN896". If he downloaded a driver for XP/XPe and the "CN879", the driver likely supports all three. For Win98, that would not be the case.
There may be a chance, it is supported. I don't want to dash any hopes. But I have been unable to confirm that it has the "CN896" chipset/GPU.
Also, the exact model might make a difference. With the Wyse Vx9(LE) series, I noticed some variations. Some came with DVI+ and others with only VGA. They also didn't all have the same Video chip. If you check the ParkyTower pages for the Vx0L and Vx0LE, you can see he lists the video as "VN700?". This is what he says about that:
QuoteI haven't removed the heatsinks but, when running Tinycore Linux, an lspci identifies the graphics chip/driver as: CN700/PM4800 Pro/PM4800 CE/VN800 [S3 UniChrome Pro]
The command he used (lspci), for that output, is from Linux. The driver developed for Linux supports all three of those chipsets. That is why it is listing all three. It is more complicated than that. Maybe it supports others, but groups those three together as a set. This is a similar situation to the Laptop.
If you can confirm that it is the "CN896", then the chances are better.
If you can't confirm the chipset, you can email the author of ParkyTowers. He does reply to email.
But if I had to bet on it, I would bet against Win9x support.
Vbemp would provide support, without 3D acceleration. I've used it with multiple laptops, VGA output, and I believe DVI. For sure, the VGA from DVI+.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your desired budget? A Pentium M @ 1-1.6Ghz would probably be cheap. Video with "Official" Win98 support might take some hunting.
Snap, I forgot you wanted fanless. I guess the below wouldn't work.
I think the Dell Inspiron 6000 has a Radeon X300. I believe drivers for Win98 exist for that. I see them on Ebay, without hard drives, for about $30. You could the get an SDcard to 2.5 IDE adapter. Might be a pain to get the adapter seated, in the laptop. There are adapters for CFcards, too. There are even mSata to 2.5 IDE kits. They are the size of a full drive and easier to seat (more expensive).
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1 hour ago, sonyu said:
Will I be able to get Windows 98 running with the VGA / DVI video output working or there are no gpu and chipset drivers ?
The video chip is one of "CN896/VN896/P4M900". The oldest Windows "officially" supported is 2000.
VBEMP or SciTech-DisplayDoctor7 might work with it. But I am unsure if you will have dual display support. Though, it probably provides video cloning. No 3D drivers, for Win9x.
The other issue is the audio chip. It is also not "officially" supported. There is a Win16 HDA audio driver. Some people have had luck getting that to work. Alternatively, you could buy a cheap USB audio adapter. Win98 has generic support for that.
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best browser for Windows 98SE
in Windows 9x/ME
Posted
It really just depends on the CPU and the browsers configuration/requirements. Unless you are talking about high resolution video. Then all bets are probably off.
Mplayer (port from Linux) can play videos, with same the compression format as used by Youtube, without Accelerated 3D drivers (Vbemp). I am not sure about MplayerWW (Mplayer with nice GUI). MplayerWW's UI settings panel seems to only support accelerated settings. But I would think the non-accelerated output could still "somehow" be set; provided those outputs were not disabled at build time.
Some Youtube videos include only codecs not likely to play in current Win9x browsers, or even with Win9x supported Mplayer.
For now, that is probably going to be the bigger issue, not video acceleration. With the age of the browsers you listed, it may be the exact issue.
Anyway, most modern browsers presuppose an accelerated video driver. But they tend to provide an option to disable using video acceleration. Depending on your video card, some browsers perform much better with video acceleration disabled. I don't know about K-meleon, this is just a general statement towards all systems/browsers.
There are other ways of obtaining Youtube video streams, without a browser, but the legality of those ways has been highly debated.