VistaLover

... Perhaps you inadvertently selected (Ctrl+I) the Italics font in the post's editor? (bolded capital I, next to bolded capital B, top left in the editor's "ribbon"?

Found it: Update application startup with proper error messages. (28 Jul 2015) Reverted 6 months later in Remove POSReady sanity check. (28 Jan 2016) ... with a more transparent commit title...

That's pretty much what I hinted about, thanks dencorso ; if the original code he forked contained, by default, parts that would enable it to compile and run on XP/Vista, he would meticulously excise those parts to make sure his fork is not compatible with said (older) OSes; you said he considers those parts as bloat (which can be indeed the case, but who really knows what's inside that person's head? ), I merely emphasised the result of him removing that "bloat": Another aspect which isn't clear in my previous comment is build-time-compiler-optimizations: targeting strictly Win7+ kernel when building his forked code, so that the officially released binaries be non-executable on XP/Vista... Moonchild et co. have a precedent on that: When they were releasing (between Nov 2017 and Mar 2018) official binaries of Basilisk 55 (on their now deprecated moebius platform), compiler opts were such that a simple lowering of the subsystem version string (from 6.1 to 6.0) in the EXE's headers would enable the Basilisk.exe binary to run on Vista (with only few flaws, namely disabled WMF features...). When apps (Basilisk 52 and Pale Moon 28) on the UXP platform started being officially released, the binaries were built under revised compiler optimisations; previous "hack" wouldn't now work, because at least 8 (new) API function calls were introduced in various app DLLs/EXEs that are not present inside Vista's versions of important system DLLs (kernel32.dll, user32.dll, psapi.dll etc)... If you ask me, that was not a coincidence As for adding code to their tree that is knowingly WinXP incompatible, the Moonchild team has already done that by switching over their ffvpx library to using FFmpeg 4.0+ source; to be fair though, it's safe to assume they didn't do it out of spite for eventual XP users on forks; they simply just don't support XP or Vista, so these OSes have been totally left out from any coding considerations on their part...

@mockingbird Thanks , but it was already posted by roytam1 himself, last Saturday I believe :

It would appear that the image hosting service (prntscr.com) doesn't like my current IP address issued by my ISP, or my ISP's IP pool in general ; by running my UK VPN service (which gives me a virtual UK IP address), I can access the screengrab URI directly and, as expected, the image shows up as embedded in the mentioned thread post... Go figure!

Thanks for checking Unfortunately, even after clearing cache+cookies, disabling uBlock Origin and restarting the browser, no go, still; here's how @WinClient5270's post displays at my end: Same goes for other browsers on my system ; and it makes no difference either whether I am logged-in to MSFN or not... Digging a bit deeper (Page Source), I find that the actual picture URI is https://image.prntscr.com/image/Xjj2ae1WSPO3sNi_B1jOTw.png but going to that I get a "403 Forbidden" nginx server error ??? Furthermore, https://image.prntscr.com/ does only generate a 500 Internal Server Error (nginx server); so is the problem on them (CDN server closest to my physical location) or still something with my network connection?

Can't comment on this, as I still haven't upgraded to it (Vista Home Premium SP2 x86 here.) Will probably do so tomorrow and let you know how it went . ... Well, the upgrade to the latest version of New Moon 28 [v28.3.0a1 (32-bit) (2018-11-30), buildID=20181130230404] on my Vista SP2 laptop was problem-free; here's a screengrab running a new/clean test profile: I then loaded my current (dirty) profile, no issues at all I understand this might not be actually helpful for you , at least it proves it's not a generalised problem for Vista users...

For whatever reason, I can't get the embedded screenshot to show up [New Moon 28.2.0a1 (32-bit) (2018-11-23)]; perhaps re-upload?

Please have a look over at the other Python [3.5] thread: A patch to enable pip has been provided...

... Then get yourself educated! ... and there's no need to "scream" with bold capitals In fact, you should care who that person is: He's the "right hand", so to speak - no insult intended to left-handed people , of Moonchild himself, an integral part of Moonchild Productions, the dev team behind the UXP platform and all the applications built on it: Pale Moon 28 [New Moon 28.x.xa1], Basilisk 52 [Serpent 52.9.0] and Matt A. Tobin's most recent offerings, Interlink [Mail News] and Borealis Navigator [BorealisXP]... Matt A. Tobin contributes a lot of code to the UXP repo, all this code will end up virtually unchanged inside @roytam1's XP/Vista compatible forks... He's infamous for harbouring a strong aversion to Windows XP (and Windows Vista) and being generally extremely hostile to fans/users of these OSes; and make no mistake: he'll go the extra mile to make sure his code is NOT compatible with said OSes, making Roy's hard work even harder ... So yes, the subject of "Matt Tobin" is sort of relevant to this thread... It seems my previous detailed reply to you has fallen onto deaf ears (or shut eyes, to be precise...); Roytam's task is not to rewrite the Pale Moon code committed by the Moonchild Productions team to accommodate a specific user's personal needs, he has only reverted those bits of code that prevent it from compiling and successfully running on XP+Vista OSes, period... Had you bothered to check my link to UPX PR #874, you would have noticed that Matt A. Tobin had nothing to do with the "tab-audio-indicator" code that you're implying and you feel strongly vexed about; this PR was submitted by @FranklinDM, another dev in their team... We haven't yet witnessed in this thread other NM28 users complaining about the issue affecting your setup(s), so, as of now, it appears to be only manifesting itself on your systems; worse yet, you haven't produced a list of system specifics and detailed reproduction steps so as to facilitate troubleshooting of your issue... Moonchild code targets "recent" Oses (Win7+) and "recent" hardware (e.g. SSE2+ capable CPU), so if your system is under-resourced it would not run NM28 properly... In closing, if "rebuild NM28 without the new feature" is what you actually want, then, again, I have provided the links for that: 1. Clone the UXP repo 2. Revert PR #874 commits 3. Apply latest UXP patch by Roytam1 4. Provided you have a suitable building environment set up (Win7SP1+ 64-bit with 12+GB RAM, Visual Studio 2015+,etc. ), build from modified source; I am certain that @roytam1 would be willing to guide you through, that is if his spare time permits him to... So, no more moaning on your side, please...

He's just lucky that GitHub have not imposed a "profanity" filter - simple as that FWIW, anyone with a GitHub account can report @mattatobin for using objectionable language...

..."Muito obrigado" indeed for that!

Hi all For starters, I have never used Discord (dedicated desktop app / browser version), so am completely unfamiliar with it ; that is why I never bothered to chime in with regards to @Jaguarek62's plee for help... BTW, it is bad netiquette to create exact duplicate posts for the same issue on different threads (first there , then here ). @dencorso, perhaps it would be better to transfer this recent discussion about the web edition of Discord in Vista to the standalone thread started by @Jaguarek62 ? Some points I want to make: I'm quite certain that these voice features are based on the WebRTC API; however, Pale Moon (ergo New Moon) has removed support for that one (by choice of the Moonchild dev team), so New Moon would never work for that discord functionality This feature is called Site-Specific-User-Agent-Override (SSUAO) ; old Firefox did have it enabled, but it was later crippled in favour of extensions ; besides Pale Moon (New Moon), other browsers with that feature ON are Basilisk (55/moebius + 52/UXP) and its fork Serpent 52.9.0, CyberFox 52.9.1 (can be patched to run on Vista SP2, but, sadly, is now a dead project) and SeaMonkey 2.49.4 (also EOL'ed). The reason Serpent 52.9.0 works for Discord Voice features is 1. It has native support for WebRTC 2. It has native support for SSUAO FWIW, Firefox ESR 52.9.0 [EOL'ed] does support WebRTC (but not SSUAO), so you could restore the Voice Features there by creating a General-User-Agent-Override (GUAO) with NT 6.1+ inside it and a recent (supported) Firefox version, e.g. general.useragent.override;Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0 (60.0 is the current ESR branch); if you don't want to appear to all sites as FirefoxESR 60 on Win7 64-bit, then, as hinted, you'd have to use extensions in FxESR 52.9.0 (e.g. UAControl + User-Agent JS Fixer)... Regards

... Are you by any off-chance using a third party theme for New Moon 28? For the moment, these don't support the new native feature (tab audio icon) and would have to be updated in due time... Read this and the following comment... If you want to keep using your non-default theme, you can still utilise the new feature (to mute/unmute the audio in the tab) via the tab's context menu (second after "Reload tab"); or revert to the default theme (until your theme gets updated...). Should be palemoon-28.2.0a1.win32-git-20181124-b37e8f87c-xpmod.7z (buildID [x86] = 20181123223555) Can't comment on this, as I still haven't upgraded to it (Vista Home Premium SP2 x86 here.) Will probably do so tomorrow and let you know how it went .

Here's how it went: Pale Moon 27 (Tycho platform) did support Vista (and higher), but not XP; the New Moon 27 fork was created by @roytam1 to restore WinXP support; I can assure you that NM27 runs on Vista just as good (possibly better) as it does on WinXP... Then Moonchild Productions created Pale Moon 28, built on the UXP platform; UXP forked MozillaESR 52, which did support both XP+Vista; but Moonchild Productions removed both these OSes from their forked platform, so that UXP now supports Win7+. To the rescue came, again, @roytam1 , who restored support in UXP for BOTH WinXP and Vista; in fact, New Moon 28 and Serpent 52.9.0 are almost the only browser choices for Vista users nowadays, browsers which are under continued development and not EOL'd... And when have I disputed that? I merely said: Unless numerous other members (on XP/Vista/whatever) come forth here with the same affliction as yours, i.e. severe performance degradation of New Moon 28 as the result of the ported (from Australis) audio-tab-icon enhancement, let's, for the sake of argument, assume that, for the time being, what you're experiencing has to somehow do with your own setup(s). For the record, the last NM28 build without the feature was (x86): palemoon-28.2.0a1.win32-git-20181117-c94825c86-xpmod.7z and this feature/enhancement was introduced first in (x86): palemoon-28.2.0a1.win32-git-20181124-b37e8f87c-xpmod.7z (and is still present in latest build...); so people reading this should test and report back, if this is to be troubleshot... Calm down, please ! You have to understand first that the New Moon 28 builds are provided by @roytam1 as a pure courtesy to WinXP and Vista users and under no circumstances is he any part of the decision making with regards to browser features that get implemented (or not!); the entire browser code is being modified upstream by the Moonchild dev team, @roytam1 only intervenes to the extent of making that code successfully compile and run on XP+, NOTHING MORE... This has been explained before in this thread, but I suspect its sheer size has now become a deterrent for new members to read it... If you have a gripe about this feature, you should've directed your frustration over at Moonchild et company, not at Roy; but Moonchild only support "new" Win OSes (Win7+) and "new" hardware, so even that is a moot point... To re-iterate, you may indeed have a genuine issue on your setup, but: 1. It's wrong to generalise as if every NM28 user on every possible configuration has that same issue (and issue directives/guidelines as to what people should or shouldn't install in their browsers)... 2. Even if you're the only one with the problem, you'd have to provide ample details and reproduction steps to the current maintainer so he's in a position to first reproduce and, second, hopefully offer you some fixes for it... FYI, the code in the upstream repo that implemented this enhancement you detest is covered in UXP Pull Request #874: https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/UXP/pull/874 You'll find there all links to individual commits... ======================== OT: Maybe it's my own false sense, but to me you're coming off as a tad aggressive in your last two posts (of a total of 3); this isn't very becoming of "new" members, especially when you expect feedback/help from other members here - we are all volunteers and, of course, no one is perfect, but we do try our best to help (at least I do... ).

@NM-Newbie Personally, I haven't seen any degradation in the performance of New Moon 28 by the introduction of the audio-in-a-tab indicator code, which is a thing already present by default in Serpent 52.9.0 (and FirefoxESR 52.9.0); this feature was introduced by the Mozilla devs as part of the Australis GUI, to replicate Google Chrome's behaviour (and this is what Mozilla devs have kept doing over the last years: clone Chrome! ); since Pale Moon does not implement the Australis GUI, that feature was missing; it was brought to PM by popular demand, as many PM users asked for that in the official forum... Prior to this change, I, and several other users here, had been using in New Moon the Pale Moon extension Expose Noisy Tabs, which in fact shares almost the same code as the one introduced now natively in Pale/New Moon; so, if you had that addon installed in New Moon and have now updated to the latest build of it, you should disable/uninstall that addon, because; 1) it's now redundant, 2) may conflict with the native code and cause issues... If you don't have the ENT extension installed and, for whatever personal reason, would like to disable this new native feature (audio-in-a-tab indicator), then the code that implements this feature is fully controlled by a user pref; toggling that pref should make the related code not load when NM runs; the user pref is browser.tabs.showAudioPlayingIcon So, load about:config?filter=showAudio in a tab, toggle the pref (to false), restart New Moon and you should be good...

The Borealis Navigator is built upon the UXP platform (much like Basilisk 52[Serpent 52.9.0] and Pale Moon 28[New Moon 28.x.xa1] browsers; UXP was forked from the Mozilla ESR 52[.6.0] platform; the versions of the Seamonkey suite that build upon Mozilla ESR 52 are of the 2.49.x branch, last one released from that branch was 2.49.4 (built on Mozilla ESR 52.9.0); so, in theory at least, Borealis Navigator 1.0 should be compatible with all Seamonkey 2.49.4 compatible extensions; but there are notable exceptions: the author of BN (infamous Matt A. Tobin ) has disabled support for all jetpack and WebExtensions addons, so that leaves room for only XUL Overlay and Bootstrap extensions (out of the ones compatible with SM 2.49.4); you can read more about BN in its official page: http://binaryoutcast.com/projects/borealis/

Not the New Moon (PM28XP) ones... They point to versions 28.2.0a1, while on the server the appVersion is 28.3.0a1 (which is correct)...

Hello @someguy25 KB2467173 would install v10.0.30319.415 of the redistributable; however, this is not the latest version; KB2565063 is, which installs (hopefully) v10.0.40219.325 ... To install KB2565063, you first have to install Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 SP1 Redistributable Package (x86) (v10.0.40219.1); that one will appear, after having been installed, as a separate entry inside your "Add/Remove Programs" Control Panel section... Just my 2p

I inadvertently found out that Internet Explorer 9 is again, as of late, able to play back youtube videos, so it appears Google (the owner of youtube) have patched their scripts to cater to IE9; this surely comes as a (nice ) surprise, but the reason behind such a move seems inexplicable to me... Perhaps was to support WS 2008 SP2 (officially supported until Jan 2020), on which IE9 is the only version of the native Microsoft browser to run, but I'm not convinced... For whatever reason, youtube now has been restored to its previous state in IE9, serving standalone MP4 encodes over HTML5 (usually only in 360p quality variant - some videos with more relaxed copyright also come with an additional (HD) 720p variant). As before, there's no way to go full screen: The MP4 decoding relies on system h.264/aac decoders (Windows Media Foundation), which means you need installed both SP2 + Platform Update Supplement for Vista... OT: Notice in the top blue ribbon how Google are eager to push their own (spyware of a) browser, even on a currently unsupported platform (i.e. Vista)...

What is the current state of your Vista installation? Is it an old or a fresh install? Has SP1 been (manually) correctly installed? Then you should proceed with (manually) installing SP2, followed by installing Internet Explorer 9. Then search for (in MUC) and manually install latest security update for IE9 (2018-11 Cumulative Security Update for Internet Explorer 9 for Windows Server 2008 for x86-based systems (KB4466536)) Then you should manually install the latest update for Server 2008 SP2 that updates win32k.sys (previously known as "Update for the Windows Kernel") which, in all probability, is KB4056944; in the past, that was the decisive update to be installed manually that would speed up the whole process of checking for updates... I have stopped trying to manually update my system a while ago, so can't speak from experience on the latest state of affairs... Last things I read were that MS has applied to Server 2008 the same updating model as the one used in Win7SP1+, i.e. offering update bundles (Rollups) rather than standalone ones; and they may (?) have switched to TLS 1.2 for delivering updates, which should be an issue for a new Vista install (which only ever supported TLS 1.0); but this is pure speculation on my part... 2 hours isn't much , especially if you need to find a lot of updates ; better leave the machine running overnight, check back again in the morning... Also, some people had posted that installing the standalone version of the Windows Update Agent did help them: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/949104/how-to-update-the-windows-update-agent-to-the-latest-version Download the "Stand-alone package for Windows 7 SP1 and Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1", once run, it will correctly detect Vista (NT 6.0) and install a Vista compatible version; after the installation and full restart, file wuaueng.dll should be at version 7.6.7600.256 For additional help, you'll have better luck, hopefully, if you posted in the forum's dedicated thread: https://msfn.org/board/topic/175919-windows-update-taking-forever/ and/or in https://msfn.org/board/topic/176686-server-2008-updates-on-windows-vista/ Hope I've helped...

I think this is because your original user account (username=FranceBB) was created when the base OS language was (and still is, in that respect) Italian... I think what you should try is create now a NEW Windows user account (e.g. username=FranceBB2), preferably within the Admins group (if you're the sole user on that PC) and see how that new account behaves... If it is to your liking, then you should permanently transfer over your personal (user) files and Windows settings to the new account and use only that (keep the old account around for a while, in case some weird issues pop up; to free up space on your disk, in the long run you should delete the old account, but this is up to you...). My suggestion/advice to you comes as a result of @heinoganda's post in another thread: Some might argue that creating a new user account in Windows and re-configuring it is not actually very remote from re-installing the OS itself, but still... Cheers

I honestly hope you did make a back-up of your FxESR 52 profile PRIOR to making the Quantum leap (pun intended) to FxESR 60; and even then, there's so much that has changed going from ESR 52.9.0 to ESR 60.3.0, that, if I were you, I would start by creating a new clean profile in 60.3.0 and then selectively transferring bits (e.g. bookmarks, passwords) from the backed-up 52.9.0 profile; I would re-install and reconfigure only those addons (WE format by default) that are truly Quantum compatible, all other addon stuff used in 52.9.0 should be left behind... Many people posted in the mozillazine forums they had sub-optimal results by doing an on-top upgrade... Though cumbersome, in the case of such major overhauls, it is advised one starts one's profile from scratch... 60.3.0 profile is not backwards compatible with the previous 52.9.0 one, so, again, a backed-up profile should be used when downgrading... Hopefully you already know all that and I'm just pointing the obvious, perhaps only for the benefit of other readers not fully aware... Cheers

It is all explained (but not in a convincing fashion) in https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=451733#c19 https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=451733#c66 as a result of: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=426573 TL;DR : At the time that decision was made, Vista user base was very thin, compared to either the XP or Win7+ one, so for code refactoring/simplification they decided to merge the Vista codepath to the XP one; for Google, it is only numbers that count ; plus, that gave them a perfect opportunity to dump Vista altogether (along with XP) a whole one year prior to Vista SP2 becoming EOL by M$ (and close to 5 years before Vista's Server counterpart, Windows Server 2008 SP2, reaches EOL in Jan 2020 ). Once Google made the first move (dragging along with them all webkit-based browsers), many other software makers soon followed (they had a "nice" justification) in a trend that put Vista, 1.5 years after its official EOL, in the sorry state it is currently in... The only way to properly fix this is to first grab the source for Chromium 41 (-50?) - Chromium, yes, because Google Chrome itself is closed-source - and then revert https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src.git/+/f29562d138f8c2222c6f24bddbd1a665ed036658 Some additional details in https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=426573#c10 => https://codereview.chromium.org/755293003/diff/1/ui/base/win/shell.cc#newcode153 This isn't a task for the faint-hearted ... You would need a Win7+, 64-bit, machine with lots of RAM and a powerful multi-core CPU, MS Visual Studio 2013+, lots of time/patience and, of course, you should be well versed in that field (compiling open-source browsers in VS)... Two MSFN members come to mind, @roytam1 and @FranceBB, but I am unsure whether they're interested in compiling Google Chrome 49.0.2623.112 (last officially supported build on Vista) or 50.0.2661.102 (last Vista compatible, but not officially supported) with Aero-Glass enabled in Vista... I, as much as other Vista users, would be all up for this, even if it is realised purely as a challenge only, given that both Chrome 49+50 are quite outdated (in both security and performance aspects) when dealing with the web of 2019... Those two screenshots @VistaPAE posted in OP are not from his own system ... First one is taken from https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=451733#c83 That person compiled Chromium 49.0.2579.0 64-bit with the aero-disabling commits reverted... So did this one (Chromium 45.0.2415.0 64-bit) : https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=451733#c68 The second screenshot in the OP is taken from https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=451733#c67 It emerged that this was actually a hoax/cheat ; the OS used to generate the shot is Win7 SP1 64-bit, disguised as Windows Vista (much like @WinClient5270 's guide found in his signature...) So now you know PS: For the history of it, the last build on Vista SP2 with Aero turned ON was Google Chrome 41.0.2243.0 in the dev channel; I keep a portable copy of it on my system just for fun, it's not used for normal browsing: Next build 41.0.2245.0 had Aero turned OFF in Vista...

... This is to be expected ; only the (translated) strings for the fixes inside SP3 will change, some (basic) strings will remain in the base OS language (e.g. "Accessories" (All Programs) , "My Documents", "My Computer" (in the desktop), etc. will have stayed in Italian) ... From my linked article: Please also read this comment; it's from the (somewhat old) article: https://jekkilekki.wordpress.com/2009/01/05/changing-os-languages-in-windows-xp/ If you read through, you'll find how to revert your changes (you'll need SP3 in the original base language of your installation); while straightforward, the procedure is not 100% risk free, as can been seen in some of the comments; but the main challenge now is finding SP3 off-line installers for other (non-English) languages, since mom Microsoft has done its best to hide those links... EDIT: https://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/Search.aspx?q=Windows XP Service Pack 3 (KB936929) (clicking the download blue button will generate a pop-up with additional language selection...) You may have to re-install some applications so they, too, display in English - it's the case of the ones that detect the OS language to determine the locale they should install in... E.g., I expect you'll have to re-install IE8 in English (and, perhaps, all of its updates), if you want IE in English, too... Ciao