NoelC

If you're seeing the ads at all, then -Noel

Imagine the difference in your legal standing, though, if you were to leave all those settings untouched and subsequently be, for example, part of a class seeking compensation for damages due to stolen data. It could be said that clearly you didn't care enough about your privacy if you didn't bother to toggle even a few settings, and that the other class members who were clearly serious about privacy should be compensated more. On the other hand, I have actually read comments from some folks who quite like that their computer offers them things to buy that they're actually interested in, because they often DO click through and buy the stuff from pop-up ads. Leave it to some to ruin the world for everyone. By the way, something that quietly became reality with the release and that doesn't get much discussion any more is that it IS possible to use a local account viably, long-term. Based on my experience everything that's available with a local account - and not everything is, thankfully - continues to work, and Windows does remain activated and functional. Begrudgingly Microsoft HAD to support it. -Noel P.S., I note that there is VERY little discussion of adding layers of protection over and above the provided settings. Nothing says every privacy-invading operation will respond to a "setting" (e.g., registry value) that can be tweaked. In fact, observably, verifiably they do not. For example, even if you use a local account Windows Explorer tries to make contact with a BingBot address whenever you log on. Talk about someone knowing precisely where you are and when...

Nonetheless, a lot of updates showed up here yesterday, for Wins 7, 8.1, and 10. I already installed the cumulative update and its friends on Win 10, as for me that's just a test system. Amazingly, it didn't even undo my registry change to eliminate the "Desktop" entry under "This PC" this time. I think that's a first. I looked through the list of Windows 7 updates and found the [lack of] descriptive text for several of them disturbing, and the "update to Windows Update" especially worrisome, so I think I'll wait to install them until some additional reporting on what others are experiencing with this set of updates appears online. On the one hand being very conservative seems a good idea now given Microsoft's recent history. On the other, it's not hard to see that if they had to beef up their network presence to handle Windows 10, that they'd want to port some of the Windows Update changes into the older systems. I started looking through the list for Windows 8.1 and I got so tired of vetting updates that are under-documented I just put it aside for now. None of my systems is malfunctioning and I don't visit sites that are likely to give me the malware that's developed by the black hats who finish analysis of the patches. -Noel

How's it looking so far, dhjohns? Does it promise to change everything - again - or is it more a matter of refinement and polish? Seriously - I've dropped off the insider program. -Noel

Well, that graphic is disturbing. Almost as disturbing as Microsoft's policies. Clearly at some point one could choose to leave behind all Windows Updates. That has not been a good idea in the past, and the tipping point is never going to be clear. Noting that today is Update Tuesday, does it make sense? There are quite a few security updates. But also note that in some cases there are "non-security-related fixes that are included in this security update"... You have to do a lot of reading... -Noel

It just occurred to me that if many of these "hacks" to S Windows TFU mess up Windows, this could be a bright spot. Microsoft support will get call after call after call where the user says "well, of course I blocked your stupid telemetry, now fix the problems I caused!" Maybe the support organization will report unprecedented costs up to the losers in charge. -Noel

@JorgeA, The curves I'm showing pretty much already are bad signs for Windows 10. @Formfiller, what would you expect? It doesn't do anything better than its predecessor except possibly introduce some new game-playing features that no application is yet poised to take advantage of. Some might buzz just because it's "shiny and new" but it's not even shiny. -Noel

Thanks for your report, Ridrok. I'm always glad to hear from others who are like-minded and well-versed in what's going on, network-wise. I seem to have muzzled Windows 7 and 8.1 for the most part, and I've not yet quite given up on muzzling Windows 10. I've been developing a Win 10 configuration where a bunch of stuff is disabled and a bunch more is blocked from contacting just anyone it feels like. So it *MIGHT* be possible to employ Win 10 to some gain while minimizing the risk of loss of private data. I HAD thought that maybe it should be possible to have a setup that was "deny by default" but with just enough whitelisting that it would succeed a Windows Update. I'm still working on that. The next alternative will be to see if there's any easy way to develop a "dual personality" configuration that doesn't allow anything online until such time as Windows Updates are specifically enabled - not terribly different from unplugging the network, except that it should be possible to allow applications and things like web browsing to work all the time. -Noel

Gamers change video cards (and complain bitterly on the AMD or nVidia forums, depending on which one they switched FROM) like normal people change underwear. It's hard to complain, though, since they've funded so much development. TERAflop computing - the stuff of legend 40 years ago, has now been around a while and is actually CHEAP. Way back when, did you ever think you'd ever be able to own such power? -Noel

I'm apparently pretty decent at projecting adoption curves. Another whole week has gone by and the actual Win 10 adoption fits my projected curve pretty darned well. Only thing is, there's been a slightly bigger drop in Win 7 usage and a faster falloff of updates from Win 8.1 than I predicted. That's not terribly surprising I guess... As one who has thoroughly evaluated Win 8.1 vs. 10 myself, I still prefer the former. -Noel

Good plan. Just FYI, you may not be able to stop the "secret, hidden" update process with any of the provided settings unless you specifically block it with a firewall. That being said, with a complete "update only" setup here on my Win 7 system, after tightening down my firewall config yesterday I've only caught it the one time trying to contact the mothership, and that was GWX. I'm continuing to watch it very closely. Nothing says it has to call home daily. Based on one day's observation, it's clear Win 7 is NOWHERE NEAR as chatty online as the later systems. As a SWAG, it looks like there's about a 10x increase in network activity between 7 and 8.1, and another 10x increase between 8.1 an 10. I wonder how they think corporate networks are going to be able to handle that. Edit: It just called home to 23.14.84.113 and 23.14.84.152. The latter is identified as "crl.microsoft.com" - "check real license?" -Noel

So apparently my strategy of not hiding ALL of those updates but being more selective is what bit me. Live and learn! And I do respect your decision, bphlpt. At this point, since probably the lions' share of Win 8.1 users are going to upgrade, I'll pretty much be left out in the cold by remaining on Win 8.1, as compared to there being a substantial number of people who remain on Win 7. We're not there yet, though - the adoption graph is continuing to level off exactly as I predicted. If anything, perhaps maybe a little more quickly! At this point I've all decided to look at what's offered, but unless something compelling is documented I'll stop accepting any more updates on the general principle that Microsoft is no longer aligned with ANY of my needs. I'm not even sure I even trust them to deliver proper security updates any more. I don't have any bugs that need fixing. -Noel

Cool! Could you make it a registry option that could be enabled but not on by default? I'd surely opt for more color saturation than I'm able to get now. -Noel

New info: Apparently there was yet ANOTHER way GWX could have gotten onto one's Win 7 system - quite a while ago! Specifically, some update was already available on April 29 that put it in on my Win 7 setup, and I caught it trying to communicate online this evening. More here: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174428-gwx-microsoft/ -Noel

As careful as I've been, I now find out that even way back in late April when I set up my new Win 7 x64 Ultimate system some Windows Update must have put in an early version of GWX! My new firewall setup just this evening caught it trying to communicate online! Thing is, I HAD hidden KB3035583 on this system, before it ever was installed. Apparently an even older update had already brought it in. I've just swept my registry and file structure clean of all evidence of GWX, and fortunately the system still passes an SFC check. Even if you think you've never allowed GWX into your Windows 7 system, double check by looking for this folder: C:\Windows\System32\GWX If you find it there a number of sites, including some threads in this forum, describe how to expunge that sucker. The following is a good one, and at the end he describes just how I feel about Microsoft sneaking this shit onto my system. http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-7-to-10-gwx-how-to-remove.html -Noel

Got an updated build today that fixed the one failure I had seen where I couldn't add a remote "Agent" system. I now have my Win 7 system under control as well as Win 8.1. Next stop will be to rework my Win 10 system to use the new Network/Cloud central point of control instead of the standalone trial version I had put on there before. -Noel

So far I'm getting good results with Sphinx Windows 10 Firewall Control. See also: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174417-sphinx-windows-er-10-firewall-control/ -Noel

It's good to know that the real world still rewards companies for things that provide value, and that it's not turned into "The Devil Wears Prada" out there. Tech is not fashion, fashion has no place in tech. -Noel

A mod can move the posts if they like. -Noel

That seems a bit extreme. Generally speaking, we have (with up to Win 8.1) as good an OS today than as we ever had before - though some might say it's not been getting better in any substantial way since Win 7, and that would be hard to argue against. But there's no question that the business model of "provide value for the user so the user will buy the software" has been followed in the past. Now, not so much. -Noel

More and more I'm becoming convinced that if one wants to continue to run one of the older systems then it may be best to switch to a "deny by default" strategy for Windows Updates... Vet every one and if it doesn't fix a specific problem you know you have just hide it. Or maybe just cut off updates entirely. I'm not sure, for example, that it's actually possible to configure a system with ANY combination of settings, firewall, etc. to succeed a manually-initiated update but NOT do the stuff in the background they shouldn't be - such as secret, silent updates. Today I checked my logs and I see it managed to contact ctldl.windowsupdate.com (a CDN run by Akamai) several times while nothing else was running. This because I had specifically allowed those addresses as being needed during a manually-initiated Windows Update. I mean, if Microsoft is no longer willing to document just what an update does, and is clearly working hard to do things behind our backs, then why should we trust them any longer to have our best interests at heart? They've already proven that they're willing to co-opt the Windows Update process to "Improve Windows" - for them! -Noel

http://www.glass8.eu/win_future.html Note the wording on the above page, specifically Aero Glass for Win8.1+ v1.4.x provides support for Windows 10 up to build 10240 and experimentaly for build 10525. I recommend watching that page, and once that wording changes THEN report on compatibility with newer builds. Big Muscle is quite clearly on the insider program and getting the new builds just as others are. -Noel

I'm curious, dhjohns, and I don't mean to be critical or confrontational because I have a lot of respect for you, but... What is your motivation for these kinds of statements? Are you naïve or have you bought into Microsoft stock or what? Seriously. People who know what they're doing are showing you how they are detecting the gathering of data - even with all the switches turned off. What do YOU call that? Not long ago software that installed itself without our permission and sent data to online sites was universally considered spyware / malware, and was vehemently blocked. Have you never had anyone close to you be the victim of identity theft, had credit card info stolen, or had some other electronic crime perpetrated against them? I mean, I understand that you may just be saying you're comfortable with Microsoft gathering data on you, because you weigh that as less problematic than the value from the benefits you're getting. I'm sure that's what Microsoft intends. I've got layer upon layer upon layer of protection in place and my 40 years of engineering experience tells me that I can't honestly say yet that I'm not being spied upon. There are STILL packets getting out from Windows 10. -Noel

We all have our limitations. I simply don't have the information that it takes to create the whole file. I've asked Big Muscle how he created the data and he says he co-opted DWM to produce it directly. Unfortuantely I don't know the specifics of how to do that to get all the numbers for the stock Windows 10 build 10240 theme, nor to the best of my knowledge has any listing of said data been provided by Big Muscle. My approach above assumes DWM knows how to access its own 10240 theme atlas layout by default and only overrides the setting(s) I could determine by experimentation that make the borders work right. -Noel

So, is that an either/or sign? -Noel