JorgeA

this is Microsofts logic, but this is wrong. here is why: They see that PC sales drop or stay the same but Tablet sales increase. Now they made the MISTAKE: Business economics only accepts endless growing, but todays PC are so powerful that you can use them for 3-5 years. So the users buy tablets as ADDITIONAL devices, NOT AS REPLACEMENTS!!!!!!!! This is why Windows 8 was completely wrong designed with this ugly Metro hell and will fail completely. Excellent point, Andre! Microsoft's obsession with making it in the tablet market -- and its subsequent move to drag its customers into a tablet OS -- is truly a case of the tablet tail wagging the PC dog. If we look at the raw figures for units sold in 2011, we see that, for all the hype about tablets, PC sales were MORE THAN FIVE TIMES those of tablets. It would take 1) continued skyrocketing tablet sales (a speculative projection) and 2) a catastrophic decline in PC sales (which has never happened) for tablets to even catch up to PCs. And yet Microsoft would have us believe that tablets are the future, and so we must all adjust to an environment designed for the 10-inch screen. Far too many news reports misleadingly focus on percentages of change rather than actual unit sales, which leaves the public with the impression that the underpowered and underfeatured tablet is killing off the desktop PC. --JorgeA

looks so. Best would be that ALL MS employees who say Metro is fine should through Mouse7keyboard out of the Window and use touch Monitor 8 hours at work. After 1 day they can't move their arm any longer and understand that this is crap. LOL

Sorry jaclaz, I forgot to insert the link to the page -- and now I can't get back in there for some reason. The pages are loading slow as molasses and then stop with a "the page you requested is not available" error from Microsoft. The information Tripredacus described matches what I read. Good to know that security updates look like they'll continue after April 10. Thanks guys, for the information. This is reassuring. --JorgeA UPDATE: I was finally able to go back into the Microsoft site tonight. Yes, the pages that Tripredacus linked to are pretty much the ones that I'd seen (the only small difference is that I was looking at the page for Vista Home Premium 64-bit Edition instead of the 32-bit version.

In the Vista desktop, it takes at most four actions to launch Windows Defender: Start --> All Programs --> scroll to Windows Defender (if necessary) --> click on Windows Defender. From the Windows 8 DP desktop, you can click on Start, type "def" (three keystrokes), click on Settings, and then click on Windows Defender. That's a total of six actions. How is that better? There is no Metro tile for Windows Defender. There must be a way to create one. Then you could be in Defender in one click. Even so, that's no improvement over having a Defender shortcut on the Desktop, which also gives you one-click access. And I still haven't found a simple way to open a context menu for an application, comparable to right-clicking the program's listing on the current Start Menu. --JorgeA

Hello, I just came across the following page indicating that, as of April 10 of this year, "mainstream suppport" for consumer versions of Vista will end, and there is no extended support period. Business editions will enjoy extended support through April 11, 2017. Vista is the OS on my main PC -- the one I use for my work and to do most of my Web surfing. A couple of questions: Should I be concerned? Presumably, Windows Defender definitions would continue to come in, although other security updates and non-security fixes would not. If the answer to 1 is Yes, then should I consider buying Vista Business (assuming that's even possible still)? If I did make that change, would I be losing any features from my Home Premium? I know that Business and Home Premium don't have the same feature sets, but I don't know if installing Business over Home Premium would remove Home Premium features that Business lacks. Thanks in advance for any information on this. --JorgeA

Aloha, Thanks, but I don't trust having a single malware application, that's why I use Spybot resident as a second line of defense (it doesn't conflict with your main AV program). Most importantly, though, I set it up on this Windows 8 Preview as a test of the new OS. It passed that one. --JorgeA

jaclaz, Thanks for these links. Back in the day I never heard of Microsoft Bob and totally missed it. (I stayed on my Windows for Workgroups 3.11 PC till 2002.) What a ridiculous idea!! --JorgeA

this is the default setting for the last Windows version. Uncheck the option in the advanced system properties. Thanks, Andre. I have yet to get a BSOD in Win7, so I hadn't run into this issue. I guess I can say that I got a BSOD in Win8 before I ever had one in Win7. (For Win8 fans -- yes, I know this is only a pre-beta version...) when you try a rightcclick you see a new bar at the button with advanced settings and the option to unpin apps. Here you can choose to run applications as admin. Hmm, I did see that bar along the bottom, but it didn't register -- attention was focused on that mysterious new checkmark in the top right corner of the tile. Now, let's do a click comparison. Suppose you're in the Desktop and wish to run Spybot (or any other program) as an administrator, and you don't have a desktop icon for it, but it's listed (without being pinned) on the Start Menu because you use it fairly regularly. In Vista and Windows 7 you can click on the Start orb, then right-click on the icon for Spybot (or whatever), then click on "Run as Administrator." That's three steps. In Windows 8, to accomplish the same thing from the desktop (which is where most real work will be getting done from), you click on the Start thingie that replaced the orb, then (assuming you've moved the tile to the initial screen because you use it fairly regularly) you right-click on the program tile. Next you click on "Advanced Settings," and then click on "Run as administrator." That's four steps. And if you want to rename the file, or scan it with an antivirus program, or view the Properties, then after clicking on Advanced Settings you have to click on "Open file location," then right-click on the file in Windows Explorer, and only then finally get to perform the action you desire. That's two additional steps, for a total of six, or twice as many as in today's Desktop. press SHIFT and F8 the same time. This took me 2 weeks to figure this out Wow. But, thank you for the information! --JorgeA

Well, I've been experimenting with the Windows (8) Developer Preview in more depth, and I'd like to share my thoughts and experiences. Program compatibillity is of course one of the most important factors in deciding whether to switch to a new OS. I was also curious to see how the Metro interface would handle newly installed programs. So I downloaded and installed current versions of Firefox (9), HandBrake, and Spybot Search & Destroy (1.6.2). These three programs have worked flawlessly so far. If the program goes through an installation process, a new plain tile with the program's name will appear at the far end of the Metro start screen. If you expect to use the program often, you can drag the tile over to the left end, although that process is somewhat clunky. One interesting (not sure if good) outcome is that the individual subprograms within a main program get their own tiles. For instance, after installing Spybot I ended up with tiles for main Spybot, the file shredder, the update function, and uninstall. I wonder if it's possible to merge these back into one tile -- install enough applications, and you could end up with hundreds of tiles and tons of Start screen pages to scroll through. The current, "classic" All Programs menu makes for a much more compact lookup experience. One note about Spybot 1.6.2: Remarkably, this little program works without modification or glitch not only on Windows 8, but all the way back to Windows 98 (and 95, for all I know). The same thing, unfortunately, can't be said for the Spybot 2 beta, which I tried using before 1.6.2. It didn't work: I kept getting errors about a missing this and an invalid that, culminating in one of the newfangled BSODs with the "sad" emoticon. I suppose that it was a bit optimistic to run beta software in a pre-beta OS and expect everything to work. The crash leads me to an observation about the new BSOD: It automatically reboots the system after a few seconds -- plainly not enough time to take down the error information (which additionally is given in small, low-contrast type, which means that it takes even longer to discern what it says). This is not a step forward. Feature improvement: Do NOT reboot automatically, give the user the chance to pause the process so he/she can write down the error information! If this is already possible, then for heaven's sake tell the user how to do it (in easy-to-ready type) ON THE BSOD SCREEN. I just returned to the Windows 8 preview after letting it work overnight. Went back into the Start Screen, and lo and behold! the weather app has once again returned to showing me the weather in what it sems to consider the center of the universe -- Anaheim, California. I've already changed it to a town in my own state TWICE, and (thought I had) removed Anaheim from the display options. What's up with that? Update: Next time I returned from typing this to the Metro screen (it's on a different PC), the local weather info had returned on its own. That's good, but I thought that a selling point for these Metro tiles was that they provide information the user wants, so why not just give the local weather that the user has selected, in the first place? More about app tiles: You can't right-click on an app in the Metro Start Screen to reach the context menu in order to look up properties, rename it, scan it with security software, or run it in administrator mode. For that you have to go to the Desktop... and be lucky or prescient enough to have a program icon for it, since you can't get into the REAL Start Menu. Right-clicking on a tile (or on the search result, if you used the Metro Search function) simply places a check mark of mysterious significance in the upper right. One last thing: I haven't found a way to select Safe Mode if you want to boot into it for a given reason. --JorgeA EDIT 2/26/13: Added subtitle

cluberti, Thank you for the explanations. One hopes that most of these issues have been or will be taken care of. I had a chance to dig a little deeper into Win8 today. For instance, I tried downloading and installing (or using directly) some programs I use on other PCs, to see what happened with them on the Metro start screen. Firefox did show up -- albeit as just a small, mostly green rectangle at the far end of the screen, though I could drag it over to the initial screenful for quicker access. Then I was able to type "msert" for the Microsoft Safety Scanner (I deliberately chose a program that doesn't actually get "installed"), and I got a new screen with the filename that I could then click on. Finally, a welcome feature is the inclusion of a number of important OS utilities on the last screenful. So, some of my concerns have been allayed. It looks like I can still do most of my work in the Desktop, as clearly one purpose of the Start screen is to replace the previous Start Menu. But then that leads to a new concern, which is that I don't necessarily want to begin my Windows session with the Start Menu (in effect) on display. I would prefer to start off with my clean, neat desktop and then decide if I even want to go into Start: as a paying customer, I may, or may not, wish to begin receiving news updates, weather reports, and stock tickers as soon as Windows finishes loading. And that leads to another issue, which you may be in a position to answer: Is there a way to suspend (not unpin, not remove, but simply stop or close down) the continuous updating of stock prices? The constant movement in that tile is distracting and annoying. Last question (for now, anyway ): What is a "TAP customer"? Thanks again. --JorgeA

Thanks very much, PROBLEMCHYLD. I have a fresh Windows 98 installation on a P75 where this is sure to come in handy. --JorgeA

OK, more impressions about Windows 8. Tonight I downloaded and installed a bunch of Windows Updates. When the process was finished, I wanted to check the details for each update, knowing that that would take me to the relevant Microsoft page. Even though I was on the Desktop, IE10 went into what I've learned is called "immersive" mode -- a "clean" screen (read: almost completely lacking in tools, menus and useful browser info) showing the Web page. After reading the description for the first update, I wanted to close the browser... BUT THERE IS NO 'CLOSE' BUTTON. Trying various things, I discovered an icon toward the bottom right that looks like a Word document logo with the dog-eared corner. Clicked on that, and it gave me two choices: to "find" something, or to go to the Desktop version. After clicking on the latter, I was finally able to close the program altogether. (Or so I thought.) I also found that if you right-click on the page, you get a crude-looking set of thumbnails across the top, with big black circles and a white X. You can click on those to close the pertinent tab. However, after you click on the last remaining tab, IE10 stays open AND THE 'WORD' ICON NO LONGER TAKES YOU TO THE DESKTOP VERSION, so there is no d*mn way to leave the stupid program!!! Eventually I figured out that I could get back to Metro by hitting the Windows key, and then back to the desktop by clicking on its Metro tile... so that THEN I could click on the IE icon in the taskbar and THEN at long last click on the red X to close it. How clunky and awkward is that??? The rational part of my mind tells me that the geniuses at Microsoft MUST have devised some simple way to close the browser, and I simply haven't discovered it. Next I spent some time poking around in IE10. I went to a safe website (grc.com), since I have no security software installed beyond Windows Defender. One too many right-clicks later, and now I'm not even getting the thumbnails across the top or the search pane or icons across the bottom!! So I can't even leave the website now, let alone the program itself. No function keys or combination of other keys that I've tried, does anything. All I can do is scroll up and down. WAPOS. All right, clicking on a link took me to a different page, and the stuff across the bottom came back. But I'm still not getting the thumbnails across the top to close them -- not that that would do any good, since no matter what I do (even if I switch it to Desktop view and click on Close), every time I go back to Metro and launch IE it turns out I'm still in grc.com. It looks like in Metro the only way to actually close the program is to go into Task Manager. Un&^%$#@^^^believable. Oh, and after killing the process, next time I clicked on IE in Metro I was taken to the last page I had visited, rather than to a homepage (not that I could tell where to adjust those settings, if there is even a way). There's a heck of a lot of room for improvement in the Windows 8 beta version. --JorgeA

yes, negative feedback on the B8 Blog is not published and than he said, that there is only a small number of users who don't like it: "We've seen some small amount of visceral feedback focused on "choice" or "disable"—a natural reaction to change". Also in Office he used this arrogant way to threat users like idiots if they don't like what he thinks is the best. As CoffeeFiend pointed out, the Metro interface hasn't exactly been a resounding success on other devices, and now Sinofsky wants to port it to the PC. Amazing. So the guy seems to have a limited ability to learn from experience. Combine that with the arrogance you report, and we have a toxic mixture. We (paying customers) will just have to show him who's boss. --JorgeA

Sheez, you're kidding!?! Did he (they) really do that?? Unbelievable... --JorgeA

PROBLEMCHYLD, Thank you very much. Would you happen to know if the unofficial Windows 98 SP2 contains everything that SP1 contains? In other words, for a fresh Win98FE install, should one install SP1 and then SP2, or can one move straight to SP2? I know it says that SP2 contains all hotfixes, updates, etc., but it's not entirely clear if that means (1) all updates ever released, or (2) all the updates released after SP1. --JorgeA

Joseph, That was very interesting reading, thanks for the link. --JorgeA

yes, this is this ugly Metro crap. Slow, useless animation all over the place. And Windows 8 uses this by default. You're forced to use this so often because a lot of action cause switching from desktop to this world. Becasue of this penetrating switching I get headache after a few minutes. This is really the worst UX I ever see :realmad: :realmad: Amen to that, Andre! --JorgeA

CoffeeFiend, Yes, I agree that this is definitely more than a cosmetic change -- they're trying to change we relate to our PCs. I'm OK with change that actually makes an improvement. Windows 95/98 was both more functional and easier to use than Program Manager in 3.1. But change for change's sake, let alone change that makes things worse, I'm not interested in. I'll be curious to see if PC vendors (or Microsoft) end up offering customers the choice to "downgrade" to Win7 on their new computers like they did with Vista and XP. --JorgeA

A quick question (and I hope it's the right place to ask it): Does any comparable pack exist, incorporating all of the official Microsoft updates, for Windows 98 Standard (first) Edition? Thanks! --JorgeA

Another thought I had is that Metro is the latest iteration of the concept of the Active Desktop that Microsoft has been trying to push, without notable success, since Windows 98. It went away (AFAIK) for XP and returned as Gadgets in Vista. Gadgets receded into the background for Windows 7, but are now coming back with a vengeance for Win8... to the point where gadgets are the main thing you're going to have on the initial screen. --JorgeA

Considering that for Win8 MS is reviving the tiling concept from Windows 1.0, maybe for Win9 they'll bring back the Program Manager from Windows 3. Oh, and the fanboys will proclaim it the BEST AND GREATEST THING, and ridicule us fuddy-duddies and haters who can't stand change. --JorgeA

This is odd -- I just received an e-mail notification that CoffeeFiend had just posted a reply to this thread, but when I came here, not only was there no new reply by CoffeeFiend, but the most recent posts seem to be missing. I did see where MagicAndre requested moving some posts to a Linux subforum, but I went in there (the "Other Operating Systems" subforum) and there's nothing to be found. Also did a search by CoffeeFiend as the search term, and nothing that was evidently relevant turned up. Where'd you guys go?? --JorgeA

Thanks submix8c, that did the trick. I'd always wondered what that "Undo Immunization" button was for -- now I know. --JorgeA

Today I finally got annoyed enough by the constant automatic reloading on The Drudge Report's website, that I looked around for a way to put a stop to it. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to click on a link, only to have the d*mn reloading start yet again just as I was clicking, forcing me to twiddle my thumbs (yet again) while the page refreshed. I found several sites that recommend (this is for IE8) going into Tools --> Internet Options --> Security --> Restricted sites, then adding the desired website to the list. Well, the method "works" -- the Drudge Report page is indeed no longer reloading automatically, but now clicking on links doesn't do anything at all. And clicking on links to news articles is kinda the whole point of visiting that website. I went back into the Restricted sites to remove the page from the list, but www.drudgereport.com (which is what I'd typed in) doesn't show up on the list of restricted sites. There are thousands of sites listed, probably added there by Spybot Search & Destroy; one website suggested that the list might be "full," so to delete a few of the listings and see if the one I manually added came into view. Nope, didn't work. I also closed IE8 and opened it again -- no difference. Restarting Windows didn't help either. What else can I do to delete this manually added website from the restricted zone?? Is there any other way to get into that list and edit it? I have Firefox and that still works, but IE8 is my preferred browser (sorry) and I'd rather be able to surf around freely than have to plan ahead to use a particular browser when I want to visit a specific website. Thanks for any suggestions! --JorgeA

Andre, What throws me are the references to "Windows Server" and "client." Are you sure that this also applies to the versions of Win8 that individuals would be buying? If the removal of the Start Menu code also applies to "home" versions (as opposed to "server" versions of Win8), then I see no reason to downgrade to Windows 8. --JorgeA