JorgeA

Paul Thurrott takes another step back from Windows 8 cheerleading: I'm glad to see that the more he uses Win8, the more balanced and better aware of the new OS's drawbacks that his approach has become. Let's hope the trend continues! --JorgeA

bphlpt, Ohh, NOW I see it! Thanks for blowing up the image. Just checked, and I have that too (Vista Home Premium x64). My laptop (same OS version) has it, as well. I'll bet if we got to talk to the Vista design team, it's intentional and it has to do with some sort of 3D or shadow-type effect, like the "convex" taskbar. But if you're on Vista and you're not getting the line, and you haven't customized your visual effects, then my hypothesis is suspect. Funny, it's the thicker line that I mentioned, which goes up only about two-thirds of the way instead of the whole length, that makes me scratch my head. --JorgeA

I'm not sure if that's a bug or an intended behavior, but I get the same thing. However, it seems to depend on what's behind the window. If the background is light, then the entire length of the sides is light, but if the background is dark, then the top third or so (as seen in the screenshots) is light and the rest is dark. If the background is light, as you look down the sides of the window turn just a little bit darker right at that point. Funny, I only noticed that myself a couple of days ago. Probably been there all along and I never noticed it, or forgot. --JorgeA

This newspaper headline was about something else entirely, but I couldn't help but think that it was somehow appropriate to our discussion: Metro derailed by culture of complacence, incompetence, lack of diversity --JorgeA

Joseph, Interesting point. No doubt the MS folks have wondered what it might do for sales to Metrofy everything so that customers have to buy new versions of all their favorite programs. OTOH, the risk is that sales will plummet rather than soar, as the market rebels and users either stick with what they've got or switch to Linux or some other stabler, less grasping platform. Can you say, LibreOffice? --JorgeA

jaclaz, It certainly was OT , but interesting nonetheless. I also liked this other thing the guy said: [emphasis added] --JorgeA

Tripredacus, If I understand it, MS's intention is to offer only WOA for tablets, no? And it's been announced that WOA will offer no desktop or desktop applications, a purely Metro experience. (In any case, I can't imagine launching desktop programs or clicking on itty-bitty arrows on the Office ribbon with a finger on a tiny tablet screen.) If that's the case, and WOA devices can't join a domain, then they would be no better off than iPads and Android tablets when it comes to acceptance in the Enterprise environment. Windows 8 is said to be a fine OS for tablets -- I'll take people's word for it, I have zero interest in using a tablet. But If the above is true, then when it comes to tablets there's nothing particular to recommend Win8 over the existing choices. I guess they might bring back Intel-based tablets, with suitable Metrofied applications. Maybe that's the angle? Please do correct me if I'm wrong. --JorgeA

cyberpyr8, That would help, for sure. On startup, Windows 98 has a "Welcome to Windows 98" that invites the user to explore the OS's features and innovations. I've never taken it off my Win98 machines, as I like the cool music that plays as the resident programs load. And Vista has a Welcome Center, which also shows on startup and among other things has a place to click if the user wants to learn what's new in that OS. Given the radical changes in Windows 8, Microsoft would be crazy not to include something like this in the RTM. --JorgeA

MagicAndre, Oh yeah, no question about it. I'm using Start Menu X, with a comparable (that is, much more tolerable) experience. Does ClassicShell remember and list your most frequently used programs? Neither ClassicShell nor Start Menu X look anything like like the Vista/Win7 Start Menu. I'm still hoping that somebody will replicate the "look and feel" of the real Start Menu, like Vistart but without its drawbacks. We might call it a "no compromises" Start Menu. --JorgeA

CoffeeFiend, Very funny (and appropriate), I'd forgotten that scene from the movie! Uh-oh, looks like the obsolescing of my Vista has started. Well, at least I have Vista SP3 (Windows 7) to fall back on. BTW, I'm curious what you, as a developer, think about ADRz's take on MS's strategy: --JorgeA

I was laughing outloud at this, till I remembered that I'm the one (along with millions of others) who's being told to play with these stupid blocks or find a different playground. --JorgeA

One of the best short analyses of what's going on with Microsoft and Windows 8 appeared in the comments section to this article: What do you think of the idea of Windows 7 as an "orphaned OS"? Read the entire comment by "ADRz" dated March 24 at 04:00 PM -- all of it is worthwhile. And Paul Thurrott seems to be having more second thoughts about Windows 8 -- see the article itself. --JorgeA

cyberpyr8, I agree with every single word you said there! Regarding a fix for desktops, check out this teaser: [emphasis added] Thurrott seems to have a schizophrenic approach to Windows 8. In one article, he'll say people need to stop complaining about Metro and get with the program (so to speak), next article he'll see things clearly and acknowledge that Metro isn't the best thing since sliced bread. (For example, see the rest of the quoted paragraph on his site: he intends to "stick to" the desktop interface.) But he seems to have good contacts within Microsoft, and if there's any truth to this teaser, it'll be the best Windows news of the year. --JorgeA

belgianguy, Thanks, you've given me some more ideas about how to use OneNote. Been a busy couple of days, but this is definitely on my to-do list. I guess the first thing I could do with OneNote is to put in a reminder to start exploring it! --JorgeA

cyberpyr8, My displeasure with Windows 8 has eased a little bit since the Consumer Preview came out, as they made some of the functions and utilities easier to get to. But by and large it's still harder to get things done in Win8 than in Win7, and I still have to look at that fugly Metro start screen every so often. Every time I saw XP's default "Luna" theme I expected the Teletubbies to come hopping over the crest, but the Metro screen makes me think I'm stuck in a kindergarten. I wouldn't want that on a phone or a tablet, let alone a 23" monitor. The iPads and Android screens I've seen out there look so much sleeker. That was an excellent promo for Office, BTW -- glad you posted it. If I didn't have Office already, it would make me go out and buy it, no joke. I'll even start poking into OneNote, a program I've never ever opened. --JorgeA

LOL and Pretty funny how they edited that clip, and with the music added. --JorgeA

The "Fixing Windows 8" blog still seems to be down. Or at least, I can't get to it from my computer. Here's the best I could come up with -- the Google cache -- but the only graphical element I get is the YouTube video. Any word on the grapevine as to what happened to that website? Maybe I'll try the internet Archive. --JorgeA

That's too bad... ...although I have to admit that this looks pretty good. Thank you for the link. Have you tried the Vista VS for Windows 7 by fediaFedia? It, too, looks attractive. Thanks to @UltimateSilence for suggesting that one. --JorgeA

Funny and revealing video in the Tom's Hardware article CoffeeFiend linked. It should go out to everyone considering Windows 8. Not that I want to help Microsoft succeed with this Metro monstrosity, but there is a simple fix for this problem where users can't figure out how to get things done in Win8. The default Windows 98 bootup process includes a "Welcome to Windows 98" that offers to take you on a tour of the OS and how it works. A sensible and useful feature. It would be so simple (and it's certainly desperately necessary) to do something like that for Windows 8, but I guess that the novelty-crazed developers at Microsoft are way too cool to find good ideas in the past. --JorgeA

tomasz86, Very good comparison! My only experience with a tablet is for a few minutes at a friend's house, so I can't offer a well considered opinion on what it's like to use them, but based on that video the iPad looks so much sleeker and polished. What's with these huge, blocky, single-color tiles in Metro? Based on looks, if I were in the market for a tablet, there's no way I'd pick a Metro device. --JorgeA

CoffeeFiend, Very interesting set of articles, thanks very much. Especially good was the batch of writeups from Info/Computerworld that I got deeper and deeper into as I clicked on successive links from one article to another. A commenter to the Tom's Hardware piece offered some incisive observations. Writing about Windows 8 and Metro, "Marcus52" (he's on page 3 of the comments) said the following: Curiously, the "fixingwindows8.com" website that the Tom's Hardware article refers to, seems to have disappared off the face of the Earth. I wonder if MS lawyers leaned on the guy to shut it down, on the pretext of unauthorized use of the Windows 8 trademark. --JorgeA

Here's what the Windows 8 desktop looks like with the Start Menu X displayed in its full glory. Also, a shot of the program's extensive shutdown menu. And, note what's back in the lower left corner...

Tripredacus, OK, I just finished trying out some of the ideas in the thread that you told us about from the other forum. Haven't used it extensively, but it looks like if you put together the suggestion in post 16 with the idea from post 30, then you can (1) boot to the Desktop and (2) easily access files, programs, and tools without (maybe) ever having to go into the Metro Start Screen. You can still go into Metro if you want, and you'll still be seeing that screen for a few seconds during startup, but otherwise it appears that it may be possible to live and work in Windows 8 without that Metro clunkiness+ugliness. The Start Menu solution doesn't look like the Start Menu from Windows 7 and Vista, but it seems to have more functionality than the ViStart product. Some people may not care for the way that programs or documents flare out to the right, Windows 98-style, but as a Win98 fan that doesn't bother me. And they pop out automatically, so it requires no additional action by the user. You can customize the skin, and it's simple to resize the menu by dragging the edges in (and they'll stay the way you left them the next time you open the menu). The best features are that you can shut down the computer (or access other tools) every bit as fast as in Vista. I can launch Defender (or any other program) in just two clicks. And that shutdown menu is quite impressive. And... we got the Start Orb back!! We're getting closer and closer to the optimal solution that Microsoft has thus far refused to offer -- choice with "no compromises." --JorgeA

Maybe the attack is from MS fanboys trying to extend the "abandon IE6 already" campaign to Win98? You know, the kind of people who would say, "Stop keeping that obsolete OS alive, and pay MS for a new one!!!" --JorgeA

Tripredacus, Thanks for that link. I see your name in there! That was a very informative thread, BTW. When I get the chance to, I'll be trying the Start Menu 7 and the suggested method to get the computer to boot into the Desktop (see post #30). Maybe, just maybe, the combination of these two changes might make it possible to use Windows 8 without ever having to see the Metro Start Screen. (Or at least, only rarely.) --JorgeA