Windows-98 and PCI-Express video cards

[98 Guy]

Has anyone been able to get a PCI-Express video card working under windows 98se?

This is what I've just been working on:

- Asrock 775Dual-VSTA motherboard

- http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=775Dual-VSTA

- Via PT880 Pro/Ultra northbridge

- Via VT8237A southbridge

I've gotten win-98 running pretty much 100% on that board, booting off a 160 gb SATA drive, Radeon 7000 video card (PCI). I removed the Radeon and replaced it with a PCI-Express NV-6200LE video card.

When I try to install nvidia driver (win-98 downloaded from Nvidia) I get this:

----------

Setup was unable to locate a detected device's PCI ID in NVAGP.INF The installation will be terminated.

-------------

So I located a modded Nvidia driver (81.98) as described here:

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=2111805

(downloaded from here)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Y6CQH0O2

But I'm not having much success getting the driver to work. This is some off-brand PCI-Express video card (XFX on the box) GeForce 6200LE.

Here is more detail on what this is:

Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) [unknown]

Chip Vender: NVidia Corp

Device: Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA)

OEM: Vender Pine Technology Ltd

PnpID: VEN_10DE&DEV_0163&SUBSYS_215E1682&REV_A1

OEM Device from Pine Technology Ltd

The install seems to work properly, but sometimes when I boot I get no screen. Other times it will boot into standard VGA, and when I try to change resolution, I can only change to 1024 x 768 (max) or when I try to change colors I get (max) 16k colors but even then it says I must restart and it never restarts properly.

Can someone here explain the differences between the different NV-6200xx cards, and why the "LE" is not listed in the support list in Nvidia's driver?

I also have an AGP version of an NV-6200LE that I will also try soon on the same motherboard.

What should I look for to see if the PCI-E bus is being supported properly by the OS?

[glocK_94]

I may be wrong but:

LE is for Lite edition -> cheapest

SE is for soft edition I think -> middle (originally ATI but nvidia uses it sometimes now)

TC is for turbo cache -> uses the mobo memory instead of GPU memory

You're saying the LE isn't listed in the official drivers?

I myself got a 939-Dual-Vsta so it has both AGP and PCI-e. To make one the AGP work, you've got select it in BIOS as primary, install the AGP drivers, then the GPU drivers and disable the PCI-express slot in Windows (VGA PCI adapter for me).

SO: if you want to make the PCI-e work, select it in BIOS and disable the AGP port in 98 if you see it. I'm guessing you might have problems with the nvidia drivers (supposed to be AGP only) and the fact they see an AGP slot.

Personnaly I have both AGP (win98) and PCI (winxp) cards so that's why I see a standard VGA PCI adapter. Try pluging a card in both and disabling it after.

[98 Guy]

You're saying the LE isn't listed in the official drivers?

Worse than that.

I don't see any mention of 6xxx chipset support in the 81.98, 71.84 and 66.94 win-98 drivers.

I don't see any win-98 NVidia driver that lists 6xxx products.

As well, I've downloaded the 81.98, 71.84 and 66.94 and don't see this:

VEN_10DE&DEV_0163

In any NVAGP.INF file.

Can someone provide a summary of EXACTLY what the story is with NVidia 6200xx win-98 drivers?

Did NVidia EVER release win-98 drivers for any 6200xx board? AGP or PCI-x ?

If they did, which version of their driver set was it?

[xtrm]

Ehm...of course there are nVidia drivers for the 6-series, but just not for any PCI-E card. I have the 6800GT running just fine with the 71.84. But honestly, why you want a PCI-E card when you have this 6200 thing? This card isn't worth anything. IF you want to make PCI-E run on 98, then it should better be worth it i'd say.

[98 Guy]

Ehm...of course there are nVidia drivers for the 6-series, but just not for any PCI-E card. I have the 6800GT running just fine with the 71.84. But honestly, why you want a PCI-E card when you have this 6200 thing? This card isn't worth anything. IF you want to make PCI-E run on 98, then it should better be worth it i'd say.

Well, explain this. This link does list 6xxx products:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/81.98_9x_supported.html

But the readme file inside (81.98_forceware_win9x_english) doesn't.

And answer this: How does Nvidia make a distinction between AGP and PCI-e in those product support lists?

Where inside the driver readme or inf files does it say specifically that they are for AGP or PCI-e ?

Is it because the name of the inf file (NVAGP.INF) contains "AGP" ??

Do they have another INF called NVPCI.INF and NVPCIe.INF too?

"IF you want to make PCI-E run on 98, then it should better be worth it i'd say"

I'm not going to buy a $300 PCI-E card unless I have *some* evidence that it will run under 98. That's why I'm trying it first with a $30 card.

What is YOUR experience with running win-98 with a PCI-E card?

Edited February 14, 2007 by 98 Guy

[glocK_94]

Eh. Chill out guys!

I have a 6200 right now on my AGP port. I'm writing here with it on Win98. It uses 81.98 drivers and works perfectly fine (play games and stuff). So 6200 IS supported officially since a long time despite the fact it doesn't appear in the readme.

In fact, here's what you find in nvaml.inf: NVIDIA&DEV_00F4.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6600 LE"

Anyway, the Win98 drivers were not made for PCI-e cards when XP/2K drivers were. So I don't know, have you tried comparing the XP package with the 98 one? 98's is 19mb big when xp's is 29mb.

98 probably can't use the whole speed of PCI-e (well I don't have a clue actually) but I'm sure it detects it as a PCI port. I know ATI X8xx PCI-e cards work in 98 (look at older topics, there are several testimonies about that).

Hope you make it work.

[j7n]

PCI-E card that does work under Win98SE:

- ATI Radeon X550 256 MB (ASUS brand), limited DOS video memory

- Gigabyte GA-8I915P Duo motherboard

Since old dos programs (games) are important part of Windows 98, it is worth to mention that this videoadapter has limited DOS memory. Many games from nineties (Duke3D, SEA graphics viewer to name a few) could render to very high VESA resolutions, like 1280*960. You cannot do this with the X550. On the other hand dos console windows now open with less delay.

nVidia 6200 Turbo Cache also kinda worked with this motherboard, however…

- the display was being reset about every 20s (it just went black for a moment and sometimes went permanently into standby mode),

- the system could not shut down properly,

- DOS memory was NOT limited, I could set very high VESA resolutions.

I quickly acquired another brand of X550 and installed on my other GA-8I915P. It also worked flawlessly. I think I'm never gonna purchase GeForce again, although my newest motherboard could not run Windows 98 anymore.

Edited February 14, 2007 by j7n

[xtrm]

Well, explain this. This link does list 6xxx products:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/81.98_9x_supported.html

But the readme file inside (81.98_forceware_win9x_english) doesn't.

I had the 81.98 driver for 9x and it worked but it sucked, so i went back to this one. And honestly, officially pci-e doesnt work with nvidia cards and 9x, i guess thats why you started the topic anyway.

[halohalo]

According to the release notes of 56.64, PCI-E are supported. But there is no information about PCI-E video cards in NVaml.inf.

66.94 supports GeForce PCX GPUs officially, but 6 series(PCI-E version) are not included.

Besides, 6200LE also supports Turbo Catch.

[98 Guy]

According to the release notes of 56.64, PCI-E are supported. But there is no information about PCI-E video cards in NVaml.inf.

66.94 supports GeForce PCX GPUs officially, but 6 series(PCI-E version) are not included.

Besides, 6200LE also supports Turbo Catch.

How does someone know if a particular NVidia driver download contains, or IS, for PCI-E boards?

Are there 2 different driver packages, one for AGP and another for PCI-E?

What's the difference between NVAML.INF vs NVAGP.INF?

If a driver package does not contain NVAML.INF, then does that mean it does not contain support for PCI-E boards?

And what is the significance of "turbo-catch" (cache?) Does turbo-catch/cache have some special significance to win-98?

How does this:

Chip Vender: NVidia Corp

Device: Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA)

OEM: Vender Pine Technology Ltd

PnpID: VEN_10DE&DEV_0163&SUBSYS_215E1682&REV_A1

OEM Device from Pine Technology Ltd

Tell the driver install package if the board is plugged into the PCI-E bus or the AGP bus?

What is contained here:

PnpID: VEN_10DE&DEV_0163&SUBSYS_215E1682&REV_A1

That tells the OS or the driver install package that the item in question is connected to the PCI-E bus?

[halohalo]

All cards use same driver package.

You can download the driver and check Nvagp.inf(U.S. English version) or Nvaml.inf(International version) for information.

For example:

[strings]

NVIDIA&DEV_0221.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6200"

NVIDIA&DEV_00F1.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT"

NVIDIA&DEV_00F3.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce 6200"

NVIDIA&DEV_00FB.DeviceDesc="NVIDIA GeForce PCX 5900"

"00Fx" means the product uses BR02 bridge chip.

Because NV43 is a native PCI-E chip, that means the products should be GeForce 6600GT(NV43) and GeForce 6200(NV43) with AGP interface.

NV35 is a native AGP chip, so it should be GeForce PCX 5900 with PCI-E interface.

I guess "0221" should be NV44(with Turbo Catche technology) relative.

According to the statement from NVIDIA, Turbo Catche technology is only available for products with PCI-E interface.

Under Win98, GeForce6 with PCI-E interface are not supported by NVIDIA, so I think it should be GeForce 6200(NV44a) with AGP interface.

NV44 supports Turbo Catche, while NV44a doesn't support Turbo Catche.

AFAIK, NV44(with Turbo Catch technology) may not work properly in Win98.

However, I don't know if NV43(PCI-E interface) or NV44/NV44a are usable.

[Philco]

Unofficial corect driver: nVidia ForceWare 82.16

http://windows98.ic.cz/vga/fw9x8216.zip - 21,3MB

I install full (functionality) MSI GF6800GT PCI-E and MSI GF6600GT PCI-E / with .inf files.

Edited February 17, 2007 by Philco

[fstue]

Hi,

if the NVidia driver does not recognize your card, just choose one manually!

I have a Geforce PCX 5300 card working under Win98, without any problem.

The driver installer (81.98) didn't want to install it, so I went to device manager, said "New driver" for the card, told Windows that I wanted to choose a driver from a list, directed Windows to the place the NVidia files were extracted, and chose a card similar to mine (Geforce FX 5200). And this worked! AFAICS it should not even make a difference which card you choose, since all cards use the same driver files with the same settings (browse the inf-file to double-check...).

Good luck,

Frank

[98 Guy]

Unofficial corect driver: nVidia ForceWare 82.16

http://windows98.ic.cz/vga/fw9x8216.zip - 21,3MB

I install full (functionality) MSI GF6800GT PCI-E and MSI GF6600GT PCI-E / with .inf files.

I've downloaded and installed that driver, but I'm still not able to get this PCI-e based NV 6200LE video card to work properly.

The card shows up in the device manager with NO listed problems. When I bring up the display properties/settings, I see a dual-display configuration (which I should be seeing) but my resolution choices are upper-limited to 1024 x 768 x 256 colors - and when I try that I see that the setting is quickly scaled back to 640 x 480 before a message box comes up and tells me that I have to re-start for the settings to take effect (even though I told it not to force a re-start in another section). It's basically stuck in 640 x 480 x 16.

Every time the system is booted, I get a message something like "there is a problem with your display settings" and the display properties settings-tab comes up. This is before the desktop is rendered.

I get no "detecting new hardware" messages when the system is started (I used to see problems like this back 4, 5 years ago with some ATI AGP cards).

The video card in question is branded as "XFX" which is aka Pine Group Inc.

Ordering code: PV-T44E-PAND

GF 6200LE Supporting 512mb DDR2 TV DVI PCI-E

It does say that "for full 512 mb support, 1gb system memory required." Anyone know what that caveat is all about?

So my thoughts are:

1) maybe I need to completely remove all previous traces of video drivers?

2) 512 mb video memory is too much for win-98 (for PCI-e maybe?)

3) Maybe other Nvidia boards (5xxx or 6800) PCI-e will work for win-98, but not 6200?

4) Maybe the problem is caused by this "turbo-cache" thing? If so, which Nvidia boards don't have it?

PS: 256 mb NV-6200LE AGP board (eVGA brand) works fine in this same motherboard.

So what I've read so far is that some ATI PCI-e boards will work for win-98, as well as NV 6800GT. I guess I'll try getting one of those next, but I'd like to know if anyone out there has gotten a 6200 PCI-e to work on win-98, or could explain why mine isin't working properly.

[glocK_94]

I think the fact it's turbo-cached might be the problem. Turbo-cache means the graphic cards uses the motherboard RAM instead of embedded video RAM (to reduce the amount of GPU RAM -> expensive). That's why to benefit from the whole 512mb video RAM capacity, you must have at least 1gb of physical RAM.

This is probably something that Win98 doesn't support well. LE cards and SE cards are usually turbo-cached (look for the initials TC in products description). It's widely used on low-cost graphic cards and on laptops. You'll probably have more success with a non TC card.