Java 8u181 as default Java on Win 98SE

[WhiteArmpits]

Just now, loblo said:

What did you try?

Putting the command line of the launcher copied from ProcessExplorer into a batch file 

[loblo]

It doesn't work for me either and neither does it work by using the run box, I guess the command line is way too long to be run this way.

It does work fine by running the batch file from Mintty however meaning that if you want to fiddle with this command line you need a bash environment to execute it.

[WhiteArmpits]

3 hours ago, loblo said:

It doesn't work for me either and neither does it work by using the run box, I guess the command line is way too long to be run this way.

It does work fine by running the batch file from Mintty however meaning that if you want to fiddle with this command line you need a bash environment to execute it.

I ran the batch file from Mintty, got the access denied error anyway... Should I give up?

[loblo]

I don't know, you're the one to decide.

What happens if you paste the command line in an open Mintty window and then press enter on the keyboard?

[WhiteArmpits]

18 minutes ago, loblo said:

I don't know, you're the one to decide.

What happens if you paste the command line in an open Mintty window and then press enter on the keyboard?

That was a close one! It tries to launch Minecraft, but crashes anyway... It seems like that it's now impossible to run MC with mesa, but if it actually is possible then there's something wrong with my laptop or Win 98 installation... In case my installation is in fact fine then I'm gonna move to another laptop I have, a Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo Pro V3515, even though I don't know if it comes with Win 98 Drivers too, by the way, I tested it with XP and it runs up to 1.12.2 without mesa

[WhiteArmpits]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:01 PM, loblo said:

I don't know, you're the one to decide.

What happens if you paste the command line in an open Mintty window and then press enter on the keyboard?

Well, I've only found sound and graphics Drivers on that laptop, unfortunately no Ethernet or Chipset Drivers, I think I should wait for someone in my country to put on sale a T42 with a Radeon 9600 video card

[Eddie Phizika]

Would anyone mind to explain me, in a historical context, why Sun/Oracle gave companies who used 9x and 9x users the respect they deserved and let they have reasonably developed JVMs and runtimes for a while? It may be a bit offtopic because this is related to java 8 on kernelex (and not java 5 which was the last version for 98 oficially), but i would be pleased to hear about.

Edited March 25, 2023 by Eddie Phizika

[awkduck]

4 hours ago, Eddie Phizika said:

Would anyone mind to explain me, in a historical context, why Sun/Oracle gave companies who used 9x and 9x users the respect they deserved and let they have reasonably developed JVMs and runtimes for a while? It may be a bit offtopic because this is related to java 8 on kernelex (and not java 5 which was the last version for 98 oficially), but i would be pleased to hear about.

That is a kind of "wide open" question.

-Why did they not charge for it?

They can charge for several types of support. It should be noted, some features were developed to meet "paying" client needs. That kind of support is worth a lot of money. Also, having a developer walk you through your difficulties, while using their product, isn't something you'll often get for free. Especially if it is a big project, you needed done yesterday.

-Why did they build it in the first place?

To make a standardized platform, on top of platforms that are incompatible. Looks good, If you need something to work; but you don't want to rewrite it, for every platform.

Why did they make it for Windows, and not just for *nix and Apple/Mac?

If you are going to sell advice, on using a wrench, that advice should apply to as many cars as possible.

Although, I'm not sure I would consider Windows users deserving? And considering the result that Java is, I'm not sure what kind of respect it is, that you are insinuating the users/companies deserve. You can hold others in poor or low respect. If Java is the symbol of that respect, I am not sure that you are saying anything nice about Windows users.

Note: I mean this all kindheartedly. No actual terseness is intended.

Edited March 26, 2023 by awkduck

[Eddie Phizika]

3 hours ago, awkduck said:

That is a kind of "wide open" question.

-Why did they not charge for it?

They can charge for several types of support. It should be noted, some features were developed to meet "paying" client needs. That kind of support is worth a lot of money. Also, having a developer walk you through your difficulties, while using their product, isn't something you'll often get for free. Especially if it is a big project, you needed done yesterday.

-Why did they build it in the first place?

To make a standardized platform, on top of platforms that are incompatible. Looks good, If you need something to work; but you don't want to rewrite it, for every platform.

Why did they make it for Windows, and not just for *nix and Apple/Mac?

If you are going to sell advice, on using a wrench, that advice should apply to as many cars as possible.

Although, I'm not sure I would consider Windows users deserving? And considering the result that Java is, I'm not sure what kind of respect it is, that you are insinuating the users/companies deserve. You can hold others in poor or low respect. If Java is the symbol of that respect, I am not sure that you are saying anything nice about Windows users.

Note: I mean this all kindheartedly. No actual terseness is intended.

My question was mostly about the market ideas Sun had about Java on Windows and the impact it had at the time. I think this explained a lot about it. I actually think Windows was and still is a very respected platform and i definitely agree had a lot of things going for it in the 9x era. Thanks for giving me the historical background of it.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Eddie Phizika

[awkduck]

I'd say the average "Windows" users didn't really acknowledge that a Java application they used, could likely run on another operating system. But there were hobbyists writing Java applications. Maybe because they didn't pirate VisualBasic, and Java was free. For most of the uninitiated, Java seemed something like VisualBasic; even though they only had a few things in common. But, if you weren't contemplating the multiple platform aspect, you where likely only looking at concepts like bytecode.

From a programming point of view, VisualBasic made for faster development of light-ish applications. But Java was a more expressive language. VisualBasic could use the native U.I., in a Rapid-Application-Development like style. Still, Java's U.I. tended to be more expressive. The run-time penalty was higher for Java. And Java was bulky.

It did seem like Java gained some popularity, when VisualBasic was initially killed. I don't think it ever got as popular as Delphi, untill after Delphi initially died. C++ was king.

I think 2005-2010ish Java seemed to gain some average user traction. It probably started with the switch to JAVA, in AP Computer Science classes (2004). For a short time it was C++ (1999-2003). Starting in 1984, it had been Pascal.

I don't have any hard data to follow. But I wonder where Java would be, if it hadn't been for its long standing place in education. It is still there, today. If some other language had be used, would Minecraft have still been written in Java?

Edited March 28, 2023 by awkduck

[pangoomis]

Actually, Sun and Microsoft weren't too friendly back in the day:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Java_Virtual_Machine

MSJVM is one of the reasons why Win98/ME was killed prematurely, as sad as it is...