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What do you rate for Windows 2000 in 2021


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1 hour ago, win32 said:

Yes, the leaked 2000 SP1 source code. But it wouldn't be a great idea to mess around with it and only about 15% of the entire source code leaked.

But someone made a functioning open source kernel32.dll. There are more details about it in his PE Tool thread:

Ximonite is basing his win2k stuff around WB's files, so maybe he could take this further. But it does depend on his skillset, which is unknown to me. I don't really know C++, just enough assembly to aggressively patch stuff, which doesn't need source code of course.

And then one could advance to creating FOSS versions of other win2k components like ntdll, user32, the HALs, etc. And then go even further by adding desktop composition support, newer DirectX support (or resort to WineD3D or DXVK) etc. These could also be compiled for x64, and we could build a WOW64 framework to go along with that. Maybe embrace .wim-based installs too.


Though it will take a very long time for one guy to rebuild the whole OS. There were a solid thousand (probably more) working on Windows 2000 which took over 3 years to make, with 1 billion USD in development costs. To make reasonable progress in reasonable time, this would have to become a dayjob, but how would we able to cover the costs of daily expenses and testing hardware?

I wish I were 8-way SMP-capable. One CPU would work on extending Vista, one works on Windows 2000, another one on Server 2003, NT4, Windows 7, one actively learns C (moving on to other things once I'm done of course), one learns C++ (same as before), while the last one does the normal daily tasks expected of a person. ;)

Your words are reasonable. It's not easy and takes a lot of time. I prefer Windows 2000 a lot, and I always want it to be able to run most applications. That is why I always look for solutions. I hope Ximonite teaches professionals his development skills, so they can help him. I study in high school programming. I wish  had been with you to teach me your skills. After graduation, I am ready to sacrifice for the sake of trying to develop Windows 2000

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I would rate Windows 2000 9/10. It's new enough to be used as a daily OS. Roytam1's browsers run on it (with BlackWingCat's kernel), and it doesn't consume RAM like the newer versions of Windows do, and has no telemetry. There are some downsides though, like not having any good antiviruses and the fact that not very many security patches after 2011 have been made for it.

I have been working with WildBill's files because there is lots of documentation, they seem to be more stable, and there are no stubs. I also plan to document my own changes in a similar manner once I release something new.

I don't have lots of assembly knowledge, but I want to learn more and I have the necessary tools to do everything I want to do in the future (IDA Pro, Hex Rays decompiler, UEStudio, Beyond Compare).

My current W.I.P. projects (in order from highest to lowest priority): My extended kernel, NVMe support, porting longhorn HD audio drivers.

These projects may stay W.I.P for a long while because of their size/complexity and me being busy with school.

Edited by Ximonite
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2 hours ago, Ximonite said:

I would rate Windows 2000 9/10. It's new enough to be used as a daily OS. Roytam1's browsers run on it (with BlackWingCat's kernel), and it doesn't consume RAM like the newer versions of Windows do, and has no telemetry. There are some downsides though, like not having any good antiviruses and the fact that not very many security patches after 2011 have been made for it.

I have been working with WildBill's files because there is lots of documentation, they seem to be more stable, and there are no stubs. I also plan to document my own changes in a similar manner once I release something new.

I don't have lots of assembly knowledge, but I want to learn more and I have the necessary tools to do everything I want to do in the future (IDA Pro, Hex Rays decompiler, UEStudio, Beyond Compare).

My current W.I.P. projects (in order from highest to lowest priority): My extended kernel, NVMe support, porting longhorn HD audio drivers.

These projects may stay W.I.P for a long while because of their size/complexity and me being busy with school.

You deserve a lot of thanks for all your efforts in trying to develop Windows 2000. I hope that you document your gains because I want to become a Windows 2000 developer like you. I have a question. Where is WildBill? Does he keep making his own .dll files like kernel32.dll?

Edited by windows2
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14 minutes ago, windows2 said:

I have a question. Where is WildBill? Does he keep making his own .dll files like kernel32.dll?

The most recent info about himself on MSFN is that he was dealing with anemia, and that was in September 2015. The latest version of his kernel32 rewrite was in December 2016, so he stayed well for over a year after. I hope he is still around, but I'm pretty sure he isn't working on Windows 2000 anymore.

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4 minutes ago, Ximonite said:

The most recent info about himself on MSFN is that he was dealing with anemia, and that was in September 2015. The latest version of his kernel32 rewrite was in December 2016, so he stayed well for over a year after. I hope he is still around, but I'm pretty sure he isn't working on Windows 2000 anymore.

Hope he is present and in good health :unsure:

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  • 3 months later...

I would say 8/10 for fully patched vanilla windows 2000 and 9/10 to one with extended kernel. I am running win2000 vanilla on Fujitsu Siemens lifebook c1320 (2.00ghz Pentium M, 1gb ram, gma 900, 14" 1280x800 display 160gb hdd achi mode).

For browser I use Palemoon 26.5 for win2000 (from this forum) with noscript and ublock origin and until lately it could play youtube. I got codecs so can play  all of my movie files on it and browser web wirelessly (boingo client to wpa2), for games I got lot older titles that some needed appcompat tool. What is funny back in day I said I will never play games on win2000 since it cannot run them properly. How wrong I was on that.

And for messaging I can use escargot MSN messenger 4.5, for office older openoffice and office xp. That is just surface scratch what all I have done on vanilla win2000.

 

For non vanilla I am currently looking create core2duo/nvidia 8xxx config to win2k. Only tried extended kernel on vmware where had promising results

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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  • 4 months later...

Was using W2K myself up to the beginning of 2018. Predominantly for (some) research and typing, light internet browsing (I still frequent some forums that are friendly to the antiquated browsers). Was useful for the work aspect, as, with the system incapable of handling the modern web (2.4GHz P4 Northwood, 512mb RAM etc), there was no use trying to meander around the internet in a cloud of distraction. There was something wrong with the system, as under W98, W2K or even XP, it's performance was never particularly good. Even a faster 2.8GHz Celeron did not help. 

So for this, I'd happily rate it 9 or even 10 out of 10. I appreciated the extended kernel, but trying to get that working amidst of a myriad of conflicting unofficial update packages is not something I'd have any great interest in now. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if you can get away with period-correct software on W2K, use that. And use a newer system for those data-sensitive tasks you might have to do (internet banking, for example). 

Edited by nostaglic98
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  • 3 months later...

5/10, stabile, has a good interface, classic and nostalgic but really outdated even with extended kernel, security exploits closed by system's olderness and "The function is not located at (insert a system file)".

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/18/2021 at 11:55 PM, husara1 said:
On 9/18/2021 at 11:55 PM, husara1 said:

security exploits

 "The function is not located at (insert a system file)".

Install the latest BWC update that may solve your problem.

http://win2k.org/wlu/wluen.htm

BWC said in one of its articles on Twitter, that there are no security holes in Windows 2000 .

Use fcwin2k to run programs that refuse to start on Windows 2000 ,find it in C:\WINNT

Edited by windows2
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On 10/20/2021 at 10:59 PM, windows2 said:

Install the latest BWC update that may solve your problem.

http://win2k.org/wlu/wluen.htm

BWC said in one of its articles on Twitter, that there are no security holes in Windows 2000 .

Use fcwin2k to run programs that refuse to start on Windows 2000 ,find it in C:\WINNT

I know about BWC's updates and kernel but XP programs can't stand forever.

There are security holes in Windows 2000. In fact, all operating systems have security holes.

Programs will refuse to start because, we are in 2021, not 2000. Technology doesn't stop, it moves constantly.

So, Windows 2000 in 2021 is a bad idea if you are a very casual user but, you can use even Windows 1.01 if you have some knowledge about how Windows works and you could operate nicely with that version of Windows.

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I don’t usually comment on forums but I have to say that
I used to run Windows 2000 on my main system until about early 2018.

Sadly I found games are the way back from 2012 (more info later) that are no longer compatible with it same as Windows XP. even some games like Otome ga Musubu Tsukiyo no Kirameki is struggling with Vista in 2017.

That it calls something in Sexur32.dll same as Windows XP but atless runs in Vista. also d3dx9_43 & sometimes ntdll.dll. That if is calling d3x11.dll so no platfrom Update. now as of d3dx9_43 was backported by blackwingcat. Which I also use with my Learning-Creative 64-bit Installation (Final V.3.6). If you're seeing this blackwingcat think you.

That is off-topic. In 2018 I was testing Windows 7 or Vista. The reason why I choice Windows vista was for Windows NT 4 compatibility. which does not work under Windows 7. I did read that Win32 that who is making the extended kernel climes NT 4 does not work. I do not understand why?

Back on topic. The game is Madeline Math 1st & 2nd grade also does not work with windows 2000. even though the game was made in 1999. even using the BWC kernel & updates also did not fix the problem. But worked on Windows Vista With NT4, I did over the years fix some of the Problems.
In that time frame in 2018, I did not know that Windows 2000 had Compatibility-Mode Technology.
Disabled until somebody emailed me about regsvr32 %systemroot%\apppatch\slayerui.dll.

I did test Madeline math again in November 2020. even some new ones like 12 no Tsuki no Eve.
Once more the originals refuse to install even with NT 4. now in that time Version 3.2 did install. However launching the game failed with a white screen, Compered to Windows XP & Vista it runs.
Even somewhat in that time frame manage to to get to Work With unstable Windows 7 in beta at that time.

As for 12, the no Tsuki no Eve game from 2013 did or could not install at all With Windows 2000.
So what I did was install it on Windows XP, That coped the files and regedit, To Windows 2000. it worked with server computability issues. I thought it was Windows Media Player 11.
so I used blackwingcat Windows Media Player 11 for Windows 2000 International Version(English) v2.exe.

Things like Lip Sync did somewhat work but not completely. It fixed and caused other problems.
In that time frame got so frustrated, I tried an older release called Natsuzora no Perseus.
Now the install did fully install. Again the game itself is as broken as 12 no Tsuki no Eve.

Point Who is if Windows 2000 does not work Against a 1999 Game with NT4 compatibility enabled or new games from 2012 2 years after its end of support by Microsoft. Even with BWC Kernel and support Updates From blackwingcat which I truly respect. I in my opinion think you should Run Windows Vista in 2021. even more so with updates on Server 2008. which I believe is supported in 2023 under the ESU program I am not positive about this, however. Even if it doesn’t Work on it. 1 year out of date compared to Windows 2000 11 years. And more so with Win32s extended Kernel on the way that our younger sister uses it for Window Server 2008 Web Editon. allthough the rest of our familly has fully moved to linux due to questionable direction with Windows 11.

I have to give Windows 2000 2 out of 10 it might be true that Windows 2000 is the last system with the classic style looks for windows 98-ME. But Windows server 2008 or vista is 2nd best to that classic style. Unlike windows 7 removed classic start and tons of features from the classic mode under Windows 7. if you read this post I have to say thick you for trying to red. if you respond i might not respond on a mouth since i'm basy helping out with 8 other foriums. Again Think you.

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@husara1 @MicahMoo11 There will be better updates in the future than BWC updates. It will be able to run newer software. With the removal of the shortcomings, and perhaps Windows 2000 will be a high match in the coming years, stay tuned. Wish this person success in his work. Don't tell people that Windows 2000 is over, There is someone who tires of developing new, cutting-edge updates.

Edited by windows2
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I would rate it 10/10 without extended kernel, and 6/10 with extended kernel.

It's overall a great OS, easy to explore, and nostalgic. My rating for this OS with extended kernel would be 7/10 if it was capable to install Office 2010, as I like that version a lot, but Office 2007 still looks good. :)

And also, 8/10 if XP programs can get installed without NNN4NT5 spoofing (except MSI installers), 9/10 if newer versions of web browsers can install and run (Chrome 50, Vivaldi 1.1, Opera 37, Firefox 53), and finally, 10/10 if some newer versions of programs can run without crashing (ex., Adobe Acrobat Reader DC can install, but crashes upon running it ]EDIT: It actually runs after installing VC runtimes from 2010 to 2019, but crashes upon opening a PDF.], Same goes for LibreOffice 6.0.0.1 also.)

I don't mean to say that extended kernel makes Windows 2000 bad, but it's just that there are some catches. If there are workarounds for them, that would be helpful.

But, however, what I liked about it is that, with extended kernel, you can run a bit of Windows Vista/7 Programs on it (Foxit Reader 9.6, Audacity 3.0.2), and that the fact WMP11 is installable on it. I never lost my hope for that OS. ;)

Edited by mina354
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On 10/30/2021 at 12:44 AM, mina354 said:

I would rate it 10/10 without extended kernel, and 6/10 with extended kernel.

It's overall a great OS, easy to explore, and nostalgic. My rating for this OS with extended kernel would be 7/10 if it was capable to install Office 2010, as I like that version a lot, but Office 2007 still looks good. :)

And also, 8/10 if XP programs can get installed without NNN4NT5 spoofing (except MSI installers), 9/10 if newer versions of web browsers can install and run (Chrome 50, Vivaldi 1.1, Opera 37, Firefox 53), and finally, 10/10 if some newer versions of programs can run without crashing (ex., Adobe Acrobat Reader DC can install, but crashes upon running it. Same goes for LibreOffice 6.0.0.1 also.)

I don't mean to say that extended kernel makes Windows 2000 bad, but it's just that there are some catches. If there are workarounds for them, that would be helpful.

But, however, what I liked about it is that, with extended kernel, you can run a bit of Windows 7 Programs on it, and that the fact WMP11 is installable on it. I never lost my hope for that OS. ;)

Your words are wonderful, right and realistic. I promise you that there will be a new extended nucleus in the middle of next year, in which there will be great progress at the level of running modern programs. There is a person who is giving everything he has to issue this extension. I pray to God to grant him success in his work.

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7 hours ago, windows2 said:

Your words are wonderful, right and realistic.

Thanks, that means really a lot to me! :yes:

7 hours ago, windows2 said:

I promise you that there will be a new extended nucleus in the middle of next year, in which there will be great progress at the level of running modern programs.

Hope so.

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