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johnblood

Having trouble with drive ordering on NT 4 for mirroring

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I'm trying to setup mirroring on my Windows NT 4 server with SCSI drives. I plugged in a new drive and booted. For some reason it put the new, blank drive as drive 0. How can I set which drive is Drive 0? If I use jumper will that screw up the mirroring?

Edited by johnblood
updated

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SCSI devices have an ID.

Check ALL your drives for what ID they are set to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCSI

https://www.pctechguide.com/how-to-install-a-scsi-device/scsi-internal-configuration

http://www.obsolyte.com/faq/

jumpers may be different on different devices.

The SCSI ID, as well as the controller/BIOS, may affect the order in which disks are seen in NT. 

jaclaz

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I tried using the jumpers, but the new drive is still listed as disk 0. I wonder if the drive ids are set via software. The system I'm using has a Adaptec SCSI Card 29160.

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No. SCSI is dependent on ID's (read as jumper or rotating selector or dip-switch) and (it depends on the specific device/model of the cable(s) used) also in some cases on a terminator.

The card manual should be this one:

http://download.adaptec.com/pdfs/installation_guides/29160_install_guide.pdf

read attentively pages 7 and 8.

This should be the user's reference:
http://theor.jinr.ru/guide/archive/dxcore/29160_users_reference.pdf

And this the manualfor the software/driver/firmware you are using, right?

http://download.adaptec.com/pdfs/user_guides/ultra160_fms_v110_ug-b.pdf

The SCSISelect should allow you to change the SCSI ID of the card (leave it alone, set as 7) and to choose which SCSI ID disk to set boot from, that's it, all the rest is via jumper/dip-switches/selectors.

What are the "old" disks? (EXACT make/model)

 How (EXACTLY) are they configured?

What is the "new" disk? (EXACT make/model)

How (EXACTLY) is it configured?

How (EXACTLY) are you connecting the devices? (I mean are you sure they are connected to the cables properly and that last device or the cable itself is properly terminated)?

 

jaclaz

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I uploaded images of the two drives. The IBM is the old drive that I want to mirror to the Quantum. I'm not sure how either are configured.

Could you please explain what you mean by "properly terminated"? Both of these drives or on the same cable and the termination comes after the second (Quantum) on the cable.

Another quick question: According to the SCSISelect Utility, the IBM has a capacity of 8748 and the Quantum has a capacity of 8683. Will this cause be an issue? Will I need to get a different SCISI drive?

Thanks for all your help.

hp-scsi.png

quantum-scsi.png

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Yep, good :), but how are the jumpers set?

A disk (or more generically a SCSI device) may have an internal terminator, so called on-board terminator (that may conflict with the cable one). 

The "new" Quantum has a scheme of jumpers, 

The "old" IBM seemingly not, this should be it :unsure: (or however similar):
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1396588/Ibm-Ultrastar-9es.html

About size, it may depend exactly how you are going to mirror them (I mean is it a feature of the Adaptec card? or a software mirroring?)

jaclaz

 

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The IBM has no jumpers. For the Quantum, I tried putting jumpers in the first and second row from the left. (I didn't realize that there there was a map of the jumpers on the drive and went by what I saw on the web.) Both times the system saw the Quantum as drive 0 and the IBM as drive 2. The IBM drive used to be the second drive in a mirror setup, but the mirroring broke a couple of years ago. 

 

I'm planning to do software mirroring with Windows NT 4. That is how the previous set up was.

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Re: termination

 

I'll have to check to see if the Quantum drive has software termination.

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IF the IBM doc I found is the right one  or similar, it has jumpers allright, only they are in the "inside".

BUT IF ( it normally is) it is already set to be ID 0, it is fine and you can leave it as is.

About the Quantum:
https://www.seagate.com/files/staticfiles/maxtor/en_us/documentation/quantum_jumper_settings/atlas_ii_scsi_jumpers.pdf

The "spare" jumper on the left should be left as it is in the scheme.

The other spare jumper should be set vertically on the fourth column of pins from left, that should make it ID 1.

OR vertically on the third column of pins from left, that should make it ID 2.

Try connecting one drive at the time first the Adaptec BIOS extension SCSIelerct (Ctrl+A) should be enough to see the ID of the connected drive.

About the mirror, the software one should mirror volumes, so, as long as the size of the volume "fits" it should be fine.

We need to check the volume(s) size(s) and offset(s), to the byte, with *any* MBR/partition table viewer.

jaclaz

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I used  SCSISelect to boot to the IBM drive. In Windows NT, I opened up disk manager and even there the Quantum drive was listed as disk 0. Anyway, I was able to format the Quantum. According to disk manager, the status of the IBM is Mirrored (Broken). So, I just need to break the mirroring and tell it to mirror to the Quantum, right?

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Adaptec SCSI Card 29160 is not a raid controller so you will have to use a software raid program to mirror the drive or use an auto backup program. What is disk1 by the way as disk1 OS assignment is not on the SCSI bus. Always have boot target ID as 0 set in the 29160 BIOS settings this will make the boot drive the lowest ID on the SCSI bus and always have the boot drive as the lowest ID on the SCSI bus. Ctrl + A will enter the SCSI BIOS on booting up the controller. Operating systems may write registry settings to lowest disk number on the SCSI bus if they are similar. You do not want to boot to disk1 for example, and then the operating system switch to disk0. The IBM has ID jumper settings next to the power connection. With the drive horizontal with label facing up, the first ID jumper bridge is from the RHS and if shorted so the jumper is placed like that shown on Delay Spin in the picture on the Quantum label, it will make it ID 1. The Quantum will need a different ID. Shorting SCSI ID 1 on J3 as shown on the label will make the Quantum ID 2. If no ID bridges are shorted then the drive will always take position 0 on the SCSI bus and as mentioned drives have to be configured to have different ID numbers. When entering the controllers BIOS settings there will be disk utilities where you can check the disk media for errors. Do not do a low level format. When hardware Raiding drives they should have identical sizes.

Edited by Goodmaneuver

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So, I;m used to working with IDE and never drive which only have jumpers on the end of the drive next to the power plug. I didn't realize until today that there were more jumpers underneath. I set those jumpers and the drives came up correctly, Now I have just to set up the mirroring.

 

@Goodmaneuver , I'm using Windows NT's Disk Manager to handle the mirroring. That is how it was originally set up. @jaclaz, thank you for your help. It is much appreciated.

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17 hours ago, Goodmaneuver said:

When hardware Raiding drives they should have identical sizes.

Only for the record, not really (it is advised, for obvious reasons, to use identical disks, also exact same make/model, but it is not obligatory) , usually you can hardware-raid different sized disk drives BUT the actual accessible size will be that of the smallest disk drive.

https://ask.adaptec.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2409/~/can-different-hard-disks-be-used-to-build-a-raid%3F

jaclaz

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Yes, I was struggling with wording and my memory of what the RAID BIOS actually said like truncated so I said "should" and left it. Good to add that link though JacIaz. I left a cliffhanger about "Do not do a low level format" also but to go right throughout explaining it all I needed to look into the BIOS with certain drives connected to get the precise wording for parts of the explanation so I left it at that and included it as to say 'be careful, do not low level format by mistake'. Low level formatting can make things a lot worse and render the drive irretrievable ( factory fix or hard-drive firmware adjustment perhaps required - to swap hard-drive circuit boards the firmware build must match AFAIK ). The drive has to be in good condition for a low level format to be successful in which case the number of sectors the drive has available for use can increase to that of what it was by reassignment. The BIOS must be capable of reading the full drive size of course.

Edited by Goodmaneuver
more info

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