Windows XP: new Z68/Z77 rig in 2017

[dencorso]

14 minutes ago, Tomcat76 said:

Just wondering... Everyone keeps talking about USB 3.0, but what about the rest?  How do I know there are chipset drivers, sata drivers, onboard video drivers, etc. compatible with Windows XP if the board manufacturer won't list any?  For example:

Chipset and Sata drivers, even when there is no official one, can be found on Fernando's Win-RAID Forum. Now, in what regards Video drivers, that depends on the processor one selects, in the case of the intel Core i3/5/7. Some other drivers, like ACPI drivers and sound drivers are also know to be available, just as for most USB 3.0 controllers, except for intel (and via, IIRR). However, the problem is intel usb 3.0 rivers are integrated into the southbridge (or chipset, if you wish, because those processors dont use a northbridge), from the Panther Point (= B/H/Q/Z7x) and Patsburg (X79) onwards, so it's unavoidable to have a handful of those ports (controlled by the intel usb 3.0 controller) on any of those boards...

[98SE]

11 hours ago, dencorso said:

You, not me, are operating on a fallacy. Of course the intel ports operate at USB 2.0 speeds and aren't "dead" or "unusable". That's what I said: they operate lamely. If they don't operate as USB 3.0, IMO, they're unusable (for what they were intended). Of course one can sort of run XP SP3 very lamely even on Z5xx or X5xx. But one can enjoy the full potential of, at most, the Cougar Point chipsets. As I said before, until the ReactOS xhci driver is working, and well-tested, I'm out of using any later chipsets.

No, they don't. The attached tests show they run much above USB 2.0 speeds.

 

 

2017 Pen Drive Performance Tests.pdf

2017 Pen Drive Performance Tests Xtra.pdf

Need I remind you that I have the same board as you for the Z68 (Asus P8Z68-V LX) and as the daily driver for DVR and I have about dozen mix of other Z68 and Z77 boards.  They operate at USB 2.0 speeds by design because Intel didn't want to create fully compliant xHCI drivers for XP-32 bit or even Vista which was shocking at the time but decided to do it for Windows 7 as probably a marketing ploy to make W7 look more attractive to consumers even though most real users including myself have dissed Vista when it first came out but I find it today a better than W7.  I can't see the PDF since I don't install AAR on this system.  But given the title you are using a Pen Drive I'd say you're going to get slightly better performance than going from USB external to USB external.  You'd get better speeds going from USB 3.0 straight to RAM which I do a lot for video editing.  But none will ever approach full USB 3.0 speeds when in XP 32-bit.

 

You might want to explain further what you meant here "Of course one can sort of run XP SP3 very lamely even on Z5xx or X5xx. But one can enjoy the full potential of, at most, the Cougar Point chipsets".

Are you speculating on post Cannon Lake chipsets?  What are you describing as "lamely" that can't be done?

Cougar Point Z68 was a good chipset when it came out but if I remember correctly there was some bug that caused early SATA ports to fail and got fixed on Z68 Gen 3 MBs.  If it wasn't for Z68 Gen 3 I don't think I would have upgraded from a P4.  Too many good points coincided to build a passive machine still capable of running XP 32-bit.

 

On 9/30/2017 at 8:58 AM, dencorso said:

Z77 has unusable intel USB 3.0. The Z68 board I suggested has supported for XP ASMedia controllers and known-good drivers available, besides being less expensive for the same overall performance, albeit somewhat less easy to find on eBay (but not that much).

No, it's not. It has unusable intel USB 3.0, too. Until the ReactOS driver is working, and well-tested, I'm out of it.

I have multiple 8TB hard drives working in XP 32-bit and do tons of video editing and transferring between drives.  You are still operating under a fallacy if you think Intel USB 3.0 ports are unusable.  Also the pipe dream if you are going to keep waiting around for some ReactOS driver to miraculously save the day.  I've already spoken about a 3rd party developer that already has made such drivers for many manufacturers including for Microsoft.  I don't think most people would be willing to pay for it.

We could be waiting 3-5 years on this ReactOS driver to emerge?  I'm not sure even yourself would wait around that long when buying a USB 3.0 PCIe card can be in your hand in a few weeks.  Are you going to trust it for vital data assuming this driver worked in XP?  And why even wait around instead of upgrading as you already know Z68 and later don't have fully working USB 3.0 speeds in XP 32-bit?

Or let's assume the hypothetical and this ReactOS xHCI driver for XP 32-bit is done today.  Then what would hold you back from upgrading since now all Intel chipsets you can use the xHCI ports at full speed.

Even operating at USB 2.0 speeds the Intel USB 3.0 ports are "usable" and "utile".  Do you censor those ports and not use them?  If they were completely "dead" that would be upsetting for XP and most people would have chosen a board with only USB 2.0 ports which was an option then but the lure of seeing if USB 3.0 ports could work in XP even at USB 2.0 speeds is better than nothing at all.  Both Z68 and Z77 under XP 32-bit do not have full xHCI support at full USB 3.0 speeds no matter what but this is a bad excuse to not upgrade.  I already mentioned you could get USB 3.0 PCIe cards that work under XP 32-bit and way above the USB 2.0 speeds and not one have I seen operate at the claimed 625MBps.

The most you'll get with 3rd party like Etron or Asmedia is maybe half way between USB 2.0 speeds to USB 3.0 speeds.  And when I say USB 3.0 speeds I mean USB 3.0 speeds found in Windows 7 64-bit.

The fastest USB 3.0 speeds I've seen under XP-32 bit is around 130-140MBps.  This isn't anywhere close to 625MBps.

 

What is your definition of USB 3.0 speeds?

If USB 2.0 is 480Mbps = 60 MBps

and

USB 3.0 is claimed to be  = 5.0 Gbit/s = 5000Mbps = 625 MBps

In realistic day to day transfer from USB 3.0 External Hard Drive to USB 3.0 External Hard Drive using both xHCI USB 3.0 ports

I've probably only seen at most peaks up maybe 40MBps for USB 2.0.

On Etron maybe you could get 60MBps.

 

On XP 32-bit

Try doing a real benchmark on the same Z68 MB using the Asmedia USB ports.

Get a WD 2TB external USB 3.0 powered hard drive connect it to the Asmedia USB 3.0 port

copy 1TB = 1000GB straight of video files to another WD 2TB external USB 3.0 powered hard drive.

Time the whole thing and tell me how long it takes to complete the full copy.

 

Then do another test on the Intel xHCI ports with the same two WD 2TB external USB 3.0 powered hard drives.

Time the whole thing again.

 

If you're not really involved in a massive amount of data like me in copying and moving TBs of data around don't reference a benchmark on some Pen drive.  The sustained transfer rates might give it an advantage on small files or short copy times but doing a 1TB transfer from USB external drive to USB external drive you will see more accurate realistic transfer rate results.  If I copied from a USB drive to Ramdrive it would be a way to benchmark a higher result but not realistic everyday speeds but perhaps in a decade we will have 1TB memory capable systems to test such a large Ramdrive.

Edited October 2, 2017 by 98SE

[dencorso]

No. It wasn't the Z68. It was the H67, of which only the B3 version is good (pretty good, and easy to find, BTW).

5 minutes ago, 98SE said:

I can't see the PDF since I don't install AA on this system.

Then don't reply to my point, since you didn't look at the numbers.

[98SE]

On 10/1/2017 at 9:55 PM, dencorso said:

No. It wasn't the Z68. It was the H67, of which only the B3 version is good (pretty good, and easy to find, BTW).

Then don't reply to my point, since you didn't look at the numbers.

Your point?  I have actual usage proof.  Are you dealing with large amounts of data 8TB of hard drives constantly using the Intel USB 3.0 ports in XP 32-bit?  I used both on a constant basis and it's pretty sad and quite slow.  Even on Vista I tested the onboard Etron and they performed way better than in XP 32-bit (Intel xHCI and Asmedia).  If you want your stats posted then just import them as a jpg attachment so it'll pop up on the posting.  You make it sound like I don't care about your results.  Did you do the testing yourself?  You can find tons of other tests done on USB 2.0 vs USB 3.0 speeds all over the web.  And I've tested more USB cards then you have under XP 32-bit so I've seen the vast majority of speed differences in performance and I repeat not one even approaches the 625MBps max or even half that.  You can copy and paste the numbers if you want and I'll read it.  Now if you found such a USB3 card or onboard that can do 625 MBps (MegaBytes not Megabits) or even half that figure sustained for 1TB of data transfer between two External USB hard drives let me know.

 

On 10/1/2017 at 1:11 PM, Tomcat76 said:

Just wondering... Everyone keeps talking about USB 3.0, but what about the rest?  How do I know there are chipset drivers, sata drivers, onboard video drivers, etc. compatible with Windows XP if the board manufacturer won't list any?  For example:
ASRock Z97 Pro4
ASRock Fatal1ty Z97 Killer
 

I know mechanical hard drives don't saturate the SATA3 ports, but reading and writing operations are still faster than when connected to SATA2 ports.  I have tested this myself, both with the onboard SATA2 ports of my P7H55 board, as well as with the HighPoint RocketRAID 2640X1 PCIe card with SATA2 ports.  My onboard SATA3 ports are faster.
 

I will.  I don't plan to upgrade it again.  The board needs to be durable and be able to withstand 24/7 operation.

Chipset drivers - Usually this is a batch of drivers rolled into a setup package.  Some just identify Hardware IDs that don't need drivers.  So instead of the ? listed in Device Manager it is identified but no driver is actually used because it doesn't need one.  It's made to make it look pretty so you don't get annoyed.  Often times a few of these include IMEI and some others but even on a regular Z68/Z77 I opted not to install them and it has no effect on my XP stability.

You won't find any onboard drivers for XP past Intel HD 4000 - Ivy Bridge that are functional.  Once you get to Haswell it is Windows 7 only for the Intel iGPU.  That's why I recommended you stick with your video card or get that 960 OC Strix which has drivers for XP, Vista-10.  (There was some Haswell embedded video driver I stumbled upon but I never tested since but I heard it wasn't fully functional only partially).  Those Z97 MBs you listed are Broadwell so they will definitely not have any XP drivers for the iGPU and also Broadwell CPUs tend to be very pricy and not many were made.  You'll probably end up using a Haswell which is almost like Ivy Bridge in performance.  You could go with Skylake like me but honestly when you can get the 6C/12T for probably the same price as the the 4C/8T I don't see the reason why not wait a little longer until you can get it in your country.  How fast does something released on the US get released in Belgium?  Is there any delay?  If not then Amazon would be the easiest way to get it.

Now the MB I recommended (AsRock Z370 Extreme4) you could actually use the onboard audio on XP.  It's the same one on my Z170 and the same USB controller that has XP driver support.  Also this board can use the Cannon Lake CPUs when they come out as long as you update your BIOS so it's got some room to grow if you start out with a cheap Celeron to see how it performs and install XP and wait 1.5 to 2 years for the Cannon Lake and splurge on the i7-9700K.

But to simplify the headache I would recommend you use a 960 Strix video card instead and use the HDMI port so you get both audio and video solved.  I'm not positive if the onboard network has XP drivers or if someone has made them work but you can find a cheap Realtek brand with XP drivers just look at the listing details if its listed and double check the manufacturer website for the official ones.  There are some Intel ones also if you want to spend more and I've seen a few of these have Windows 2000 drivers.  The USB cards are pretty cheap and most have 4 ports some have 7 ports so you could actually end up with more working XP ports than the rear ones.  Just double check the chipset to make sure there are official drivers for XP and most of them I've seen have them.

I recommend that Coffee Lake AsRock Z370 Extreme4 MB and get the i7-8700K and pair it with the 6 core / 12 Thread CPU.  Since this is the first consumer class Intel MB that has 6 cores it is a big deal.  I wish this had happened on Skylake so I'm a little peeved.  But if all you care about is just using XP on some old MB then you can probably try a cheap AMD 990FX MB and pop in a FX-8350 Bulldozer and use your old DDR3 memory.

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-FD8350FRHKBOX-FX-8350-8-Core-Processor/dp/B009O7YUF6/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

Passmark 8,943

i7-3770K Passmark 9543

So quite close in performance and those i7-3770K are quite expensive to get.

If you want decent performance while on 24/7 operation I would underclock the i7-8700K down to 3GHz for the simplest and use Auto CPU Core Voltage.  But if you want it run even cooler you can work on tweaking the undervolting but that can be very time consuming and you'll have to burn in the CPU with Prime to find and keep track of the CPU temps and mark them down every 20 minutes and then every hour after until you find where the stable temp resides.  Then lower it in small increments till you reach instability and go to the figure where it was still stable.  Sometimes this can take a period of a day or two before I'm ready to finalize my CPU settings.  I don't recommend this for you because I think this may be a bit too technical and boring for you so just underclocking it to 3GHz would be enough without the extra work.  If you want it to run super cool and guaranteed to last 5 years or more you could probably go down to 2GHz on this and because it has 6C/12T it would still be pretty powerful compared to the Z77 Ivy Bridge top end I7-3770K or on par with less heat and could be run 24/7 for certain.  I have a Skylake underclocked to 3GHz and it runs fine and less heat but has only 4 cores.  So if you assume the cores are identical then 3GHz x 4 = 12, vs 2GHz x6 = 12.  It would be very interesting to benchmark this vs an i7-3770K to see how they compare in performance and energy usage.

If you decide to go for this let me know I could walk you through the parts to get XP working on it.  My Z170 is almost identical to it and it uses the same socket type so another Intel greed practice at work not allowing Skylake BIOS updates to use it.  It'll blow away any Z68/Z77 you were thinking about building and those CPUs are sometimes "obscenely" priced.  And if you wanted two machines you could buy identical MBs and use a cheaper dual or quad core Celeron on the other system and use the more powerful one on Windows 7/10.

Maybe some BIOS Modder could add the microcodes for Coffee Lake CPUs to work on Z170 if that was all required to get it to run.   I've seen some laptop mods use unsupported CPUs this way with identical socket type.

 

[Tomcat76]

There do appear to be drivers for the HD 4400 and 4600 graphics for XP.  liquidLD posted HD 4600 drivers here but he needs to update the links.  The same goes for the Killer E2200 chip, which appears to be an Atheros AR8161 for which XP drivers do exist (discussion here).  Realtek audio isn't an issue either.
 
As far as more recent chipsets go... I'd still like to have a working onboard video chip as a backup.  My video card could die, or I may want to put it in a temporary replacement PC for a customer whose PC I need to repair.  It can always come in handy.  Also, all programs I use currently and intend to use in the "new" XP computer are single-core applications, so more cores aren't necessarily going to improve my experience as opposed to "raw power".  The second computer I intend to build (storage + video editing) needs to be ready for programs like Premiere and Vegas Pro.  Having more cores might serve me better there.
 
So basically, we're back at USB 3
 
I don't mind a little tinkering around, but all USB 3 ports need to work, even if they operate at USB 2.0 speeds.  Having only one usable USB 3 port to which a USB hub needs to be connected is a bridge too far for me.  The same goes for a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card; I don't want to waste PCIe slots.  It's a bit unclear to me which chips work OK at 2.0 speeds, and which require the USB hub workaround.  Would that be 7/8/9-series chipsets vs 100+ series chipsets?  Or is it about USB 3.0 vs 3.1?
 
Currently, I think I'd either go with:
Z68 + Sandy Bridge,
Z68 + Ivy Bridge, or
Z97 + Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon (i5-4690K or i7-4790K)
 
I'm not yet sure how Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge compare in terms of heat (OC'd or not).  Still need to find that out.

[98SE]

9 hours ago, Tomcat76 said:

There do appear to be drivers for the HD 4400 and 4600 graphics for XP.  liquidLD posted HD 4600 drivers here but he needs to update the links.  The same goes for the Killer E2200 chip, which appears to be an Atheros AR8161 for which XP drivers do exist (discussion here).  Realtek audio isn't an issue either.
 
As far as more recent chipsets go... I'd still like to have a working onboard video chip as a backup.  My video card could die, or I may want to put it in a temporary replacement PC for a customer whose PC I need to repair.  It can always come in handy.  Also, all programs I use currently and intend to use in the "new" XP computer are single-core applications, so more cores aren't necessarily going to improve my experience as opposed to "raw power".  The second computer I intend to build (storage + video editing) needs to be ready for programs like Premiere and Vegas Pro.  Having more cores might serve me better there.
 
So basically, we're back at USB 3
 
I don't mind a little tinkering around, but all USB 3 ports need to work, even if they operate at USB 2.0 speeds.  Having only one usable USB 3 port to which a USB hub needs to be connected is a bridge too far for me.  The same goes for a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card; I don't want to waste PCIe slots.  It's a bit unclear to me which chips work OK at 2.0 speeds, and which require the USB hub workaround.  Would that be 7/8/9-series chipsets vs 100+ series chipsets?  Or is it about USB 3.0 vs 3.1?
 
Currently, I think I'd either go with:
Z68 + Sandy Bridge,
Z68 + Ivy Bridge, or
Z97 + Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon (i5-4690K or i7-4790K)
 
I'm not yet sure how Ivy Bridge and Sandy Bridge compare in terms of heat (OC'd or not).  Still need to find that out.

I have a Z87 but no CPU yet so I can't verify if that "unofficial" Haswell iGPU driver is stable, works, or is fully functional.  You have to remember that if you're using the iGPU it's very limited in performance compared to a real graphics card.  But if this "unofficial" driver does work then it might be possible to test if it works on SkyLake and Coffee Lake but a lot of times this fails.  So whatever those guys did to mod it it's unknown if the performance is equal to a HD 1000-4000.

You never mentioned your budget but if you're already eyeballing i5-4690K or i7-4790K you might be able to wait and get the i7-8700K instead for about the same price and get 2 more cores or 4 extra threads.

If you're operating on the cheap and the goal is two systems one XP and one for Newer.

Get an Ivy Bridge laptop that has an HD 4000 in it.  These will be more than enough for your XP needs.

Then use the I7-8700K as your XP/7 machine.

The AsRock Z370 Extreme4 has 4 total Asmedia USB ports for XP.  2 on the Rear, 2 on Board.

Just use something like this to make them usable and you don't use any PCIe slots and its in front of your computer where it's more convenient to reach than around the back of the system.  $10 same price as buying the USB card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5inch-Floppy-Internal-20Pin-4Ports-USB3-0-Front-Panel-Floppy-Bay-Bracket-Cable-/232249433113?hash=item3613251c19:g:wfEAAOSw~AVYrX1y

The onBoard Realtek Audio should work since it is identical to the Z170 that I use.  The onboard Intel LAN I think someone could have modified it to work but I haven't tested so if you search hard enough maybe you'd come up with one to save another slot.

If you're worried about using or not using too many cores you can choose a low end Dual core Celeron $50-$70 which might already be enough power for what you are doing and I hear $120 for the Quad core model.  You can reduce the cores in the BIOS to lower the heat if you're thinking is you won't be using any programs that uses more than 1 core.

If you're interested in a new AMD AM4, the user Ragnargd has tested one out recently and mentioned that he couldn't underclock or reduce the CPU cores.  So if that's true this actually gives Intel an advantage in cooling if you don't need all cores running or need all that speed.  Also it's unknown if it can work with XP so only AM3 is confirmed to work with official drivers.

If you're not into gaming you can try the Bear Windows driver for very basic VGA functionality in XP with the Coffee Lake iGPU.

http://bearwindows.zcm.com.au/vbe9x.htm

 

If you're still too timid to test the waters I'd go this route and purchase these items:

#1 eBay Used Ivy Bridge Laptop with CPU that has Intel HD 4000 Graphics for XP.

#2 AsRock Z370 Extreme4 (ASRock Z270 EXTREME4 costs $165 so expect around this ballpark pricing)

#3 i3-8100 Super-cheap Core i3-8100 quad-core

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antonyleather/2017/09/25/intel-announces-8th-gen-desktop-cpus-lower-prices-bad-news-for-amd/#c05ea9546d63

At launch there will be three non-K-series CPUs, including a quad-core in the form of the Core i3-8100. This is just as interesting as Intel states a retail price of just $117.

#4 DDR4 Memory 8GB using 4GB x 2
https://www.amazon.com/Ballistix-Sport-4GBx2-PC4-19200-288-Pin/dp/B01F4Z4OPW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1506995025&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=4gb+ddr4&psc=1
$84

#5 Header adapter for XP USB3.0 ports
$10

 

Total for the desktop parts
$376 (buffer another $100 price fluctuation)

$500 MAX.

 

Just found some news looks like it's coming this month:

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/microarchitectures/coffee_lake

Intel announced Coffee Lake-based SKUs on September 24 with products available beginning October 5, 2017 and OEM systems starting Q4 2017.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by 98SE

[dencorso]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-ASUS-P8Z68-V-LX-Motherboard-LGA-1155-Intel-Z68-ATX-DDR3-I-O-Shield-Test-/263196459654?hash=item3d47bb4286:g:7RIAAOSwKFBZs7eA

[Dibya]

Hello 98SE he wants to build a completely compatible xp build.

2 hours ago, dencorso said:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-ASUS-P8Z68-V-LX-Motherboard-LGA-1155-Intel-Z68-ATX-DDR3-I-O-Shield-Test-/263196459654?hash=item3d47bb4286:g:7RIAAOSwKFBZs7eA

Does this board support usb3.0 at usb3.0 speed on xp ? Will it work on i7 2700k (lga 1155 I hope it should work )?

[98SE]

12 hours ago, Tomcat76 said:

So basically, we're back at USB 3
 
I don't mind a little tinkering around, but all USB 3 ports need to work, even if they operate at USB 2.0 speeds.  Having only one usable USB 3 port to which a USB hub needs to be connected is a bridge too far for me.  The same goes for a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card; I don't want to waste PCIe slots.  It's a bit unclear to me which chips work OK at 2.0 speeds, and which require the USB hub workaround.  Would that be 7/8/9-series chipsets vs 100+ series chipsets?  Or is it about USB 3.0 vs 3.1?
 

I did a comparison of all their Z370 MBs took several hours but I found one more MB that will knock the socks off the Z68.

I focused on the SATA3 you wanted "4 SATAIII 6Gbps ports..." and XP working on Asmedia USB 3.0 ports.

 

Examine the specs for the P8Z68-V LX.

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z68V_LX/specifications/

Intel Z68 chipset :

Storage: (2) MAX

2 x SATA 6Gb/s port(s)

 

XP USB 3.X ports: (2) MAX

2 x ASMedia USB 3.1 Gen 1 port(s)

 

 

Compared to the Z370 Taichi

https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z370 Taichi/index.asp#Specification

Storage: (8) MAX

6 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s Connectors

2 x SATA3 6.0 Gb/s Connectors by ASMedia ASM1061

 

XP USB 3.X ports: (6) MAX

2 x USB 3.1 Gen2 (A/C) Port (10 Gb/s) (ASMedia ASM3142) (Supports ESD Protection)

4 x USB 3.1 Gen1 ports from 2 Headers (ASMedia ASM1074 hub) (Supports ESD) - You can use all 4 USB ports on the front panel.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by 98SE

[Dibya]

98SE your board seems to be awesome.  Should  I wait for i7 9700k? I have sold my kabylake build to one guy . I have some money in hand . I have kept it with my dad as i may lose it . I am waiting.  I have some xp compatible gfx card lying around. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Dibya

[98SE]

1 hour ago, Dibya said:

Hello 98SE he wants to build a completely compatible xp build.

Does this board support usb3.0 at usb3.0 speed on xp ? Will it work on i7 2700k (lga 1155 I hope it should work )?

Yes it will support it since it is SB but those are very expensive today and hard to find brand new and sealed.  You can take a chance on a used one and most are overheated or abused so buying a new and sealed box is the only way I would go.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-i7-2700K-CPU-QUAD-CORE-LGA-1155-SOCKET-PROCESSOR-3-5GHZ-NEW-/112530051764?epid=111374982&hash=item1a335052b4%3Ag%3ABYoAAOSwUIhZX-pk&nma=true&si=%2BNsx3NRoit9czJSvbl7WBIXSIKw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

1 hour ago, Dibya said:

98SE your board seems to be awesome.  Should  I wait for i7 9700k? I have sold my kabylake build to one guy . I have some money in hand . I have kept it with my dad as i may lose it . I am waiting.  I have some xp compatible gfx card lying around. 

You can wait for Z470 MB but who knows if they will change the USB from Asmedia to Intel or change Realtek Audio to Other with no XP driver?

I would get Z370MB first and use the cheaper i3-8100 for $120?  Or find a real cheap Coffee Lake Celeron $50-$70?  Wait till i7-9700K releases and then update BIOS on the MB and sell off cheap Celeron CPU.

But if you are in no rush we can see what Z570/Z670 has and it might be 8 core Intel Desktop Consumer CPU?   No more 4 and 6 Core BS.

Did you get the Intel LAN working on your Z170?  That seems to be the only thing left to get working.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by 98SE

[dencorso]

34 minutes ago, Dibya said:

Does this board support usb3.0 at usb3.0 speed on xp ? Will it work on i7 2700k (lga 1155 I hope it should work )?

Yes and yes! Well, if you mean 5Gb/s ( = 625 MB/s), possibly, but I don't own any USB 3.0 storage device capable of that, so I cannot tell. But does 197 MB/s on a pendrive sound convincing enough for you? Look at those pendrive tests below and form your opinion. I've attached the datasheet for the ASMedia 1042 controller it uses, too, for the sake of completeness. BTW, true (= real life) USB 2.0 spped is no more than 35 MB/s (i. e. not at all the 60 MB/s from the specs).

On 10/1/2017 at 12:36 PM, dencorso said:

2017 Pen Drive Performance Tests.pdf

2017 Pen Drive Performance Tests Xtra.pdf

ASMedia 1042.pdf

[Dibya]

12 minutes ago, dencorso said:

Yes and yes! Well, if you mean 5Gb/s ( = 625 MB/s), possibly, but I don't own any USB 3.0 storage device capable of that, so I cannot tell. But does 197 MB/s on a pendrive sound convincing enough for you? Look at those pendrive tests below and form your opinion. I've attached the datasheet for the ASMedia 1042 controller it uses, too, for the sake of completeness. BTW, true (= real life) USB 2.0 spped is no more than 35 MB/s (i. e. not at all the 60 MB/s from the specs).

ASMedia 1042.pdf

Thanks dencorso

31 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Yes it will support it since it is SB but those are very expensive today and hard to find brand new and sealed.  You can take a chance on a used one and most are overheated or abused so buying a new and sealed box is the only way I would go.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INTEL-i7-2700K-CPU-QUAD-CORE-LGA-1155-SOCKET-PROCESSOR-3-5GHZ-NEW-/112530051764?epid=111374982&hash=item1a335052b4%3Ag%3ABYoAAOSwUIhZX-pk&nma=true&si=%2BNsx3NRoit9czJSvbl7WBIXSIKw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

You can wait for Z470 MB but who knows if they will change the USB from Asmedia to Intel or change Realtek Audio to Other with no XP driver?

I would get Z370MB first and use the cheaper i3-8100 for $120?  Or find a real cheap Coffee Lake Celeron $50-$70?  Wait till i7-9700K releases and then update BIOS on the MB and sell off cheap Celeron CPU.

But if you are in no rush we can see what Z570/Z670 has and it might be 8 core Intel Desktop Consumer CPU?   No more 4 and 6 Core BS.

Did you get the Intel LAN working on your Z170?  That seems to be the only thing left to get working.

 

Z370 may able to run i7 9700k with BIOS update .

[98SE]

1 hour ago, dencorso said:

Yes and yes! Well, if you mean 5Gb/s ( = 500 MB/s, because USB uses 10bits per byte), possibly, but I don't own any USB 3.0 storage device capable of that, so I cannot tell. But does 197 MB/s on a pendrive sound convincing enough for you? Look at those pendrive tests below and form your opinion. I've attached the datasheet for the ASMedia 1042 controller it uses, too, for the sake of completeness. BTW, true (= real life) USB 2.0 spped is no more than 35 MB/s (i. e. not at all the 60 MB/s from the specs).

ASMedia 1042.pdf

I would use a Pen Drive around 1TB in capacity for the test but those are expensive and speeds can differ between brands.  When you transfer a file often times Windows will give you a false estimate or the actual speed is not accurate.  Once the pop up window stops the drive is still writing so this adds elapsed time not accounted.  A better more accurate test might be using a 1TB SSD if you can find one and do 1 TB transfer from that to a 1TB Ramdrive.  You will see the speeds stabilize and no buffering or cheating will occur.  Unfortunately neither of us have access to that large enough SSD or computers with that much RAM.

Okay according to the official USB 3.0 specs they market.

5 Gbps = 5 Giga Bits per second

5 Giga Bits per second = 5000 Mega Bits per second

5000 / 8 gets you the 625 Mega Bytes per second therefore the 625 MBps.

 

USB 2.0 was stated as 480Mbps = 480 Mega Bits per second

480 / 8 gets you 60 Mega Bytes per second therefore the 60MBps assume the same payload reduced by 20% gives you 48MBps.

 

The payload you described would reduce the 5Gbps rating to 4Gbps so which is 20% less.

so 80% of 625MBps = 500MBps = 500 MegaBytes Per Second.

I have not seen any USB 3.0 onboard or PCIe card so far that even comes close to half that sustained transfer rates of 250MBps.  I've only seen ranges around 130-140MBps and I think that test I did was inside Windows 7 64-bit.  So XP should be much lower than that or half way between high end USB 2.0 to USB 3.0 speeds.  My USB 2.0 speeds ranged between 20-40MBps so let's say 40+140=180/2 = 90MBps should be something you'd see in XP 32-bit on USB 3.0 ports.  I haven't seen them go this high but then again I'm transferring GBs of data between two 8TB USB 3.0 external powered hard drives.  When I switch over to Vista 64-bit I see better performance than in XP 32-bit on 3rd party Etron.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.0

The USB 3.0 specification was released on 12 November 2008, with its management transferring from USB 3.0 Promoter Group to the USB Implementers Forum (USB-IF), and announced on 17 November 2008 at the SuperSpeed USB Developers Conference.[30]

USB 3.0 defines a new SuperSpeed transfer mode, with associated new backward compatible plugs, receptacles, and cables. SuperSpeed plugs and receptacles are identified with a distinct logo and blue inserts in standard format receptacles.

The new SuperSpeed mode provides a data signaling rate of 5.0 Gbit/s. However, due to the overhead incurred by 8b/10b encoding, the payload throughput is actually 4 Gbit/s, and the specification considers it reasonable to achieve only around 3.2 Gbit/s (0.4 GB/s or 400 MB/s). However, this should increase with future hardware advances. Communication is full-duplex in SuperSpeed transfer mode; earlier modes are half-duplex, arbitrated by the host.[31]

 

Since my experience with USB 3.0 speeds in XP 32-bit usually are at most 3.0 times faster but usually in the range of 2.0-2.5 times faster I don't think being able to use my xHCI USB 3.0 ports at USB 2.0 speeds is "unusable".

For example let's assume USB 2.0 is like driving 60Mph on the highway (which was pretty fast compared to 1.0/1.1 at that time) and USB 3.0 was supposed to be 600Mph but in reality it goes 180Mph.  I'd rather be able to drive 60Mph then 0Mph is how I look at it.  USB 1.1 would probably be like going 1.5 Mph so I'll take USB 2.0 speeds over nothing.

But you mentioned you only do Math programs and some imaging.  I can't see that being too data intensive like DVRing HD videos on 10 channels non stop and that works fine on USB 2.0 speeds for me so why complain it's not getting USB 3.0 speeds or call them "unusable" when even their specs claim 10 times faster yet in reality on their best day it might be more like 3 times which is still pretty much false advertising.

Give me real xHCI speeds of even 500 MB per second or else how can you claim that those USB 3 speeds are even accurate?  You should be p***ed all the time that they aren't getting half that speed on Windows 7.  That's how I see it.  But since real day performance transferring TBs of data between drives even 250MBps on XP 32-bit would make a real difference and save me a lot of time compared to 40MBps peak.

The reason I went for the Z68 Gen 3 and Z77 boards was they introduced PCIe 3.0, USB 3.0, and added a powerful iGPU into the CPU.  Coffee Lake is the first real advancement since SB worth blinking an eye at.  I wish USB 4.0 and PCIe 4.0 and 128GB was introduced but that's considering given the same amount of time from P4 to SB and SB to CL we should be seeing 8C/16T for consumers not this late stage 6C/12T because AMD brought Ryzen.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by 98SE

[dencorso]

15 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Well, if you mean 5Gb/s ( = 500 MB/s, because USB uses 10bits per byte),

I've already corrected that statement. It's SATA that uses 10 bits per byte not USB.
Anyway, I have an OCZ-Vertex3 attached to one of the SATA III ports of the P8Z68-V LX and it can actually sustain sequential reads of 470 MB/s across several 2GiB files. So the Z68 and the onboard bus are able to sustain at least that much easily. And, as I said above, I have one pendrive that gives sequential reads of 197 MB/s on XP (and another one that sustains sequential reads 188 MB/s).

15 minutes ago, 98SE said:

My USB 2.0 speeds ranged between 20-40MBps

I really doubt You've ever got more than 35 MB/s on a USB 2.0 port of any maker, with any board, any OS and whatever storage device, in real world conditions.