XP POSReady 2009 and ADVANCED FORMAT HDDs

[eatup]

Does Windows XP Embedded POSReady 2009 have native support for advanced format hard drives, or must I do the trick formatting the partition with Windows 7 first prior to installing POSReady '09?

[dencorso]

Using advanced format hard drives with windows XP (even if POSReady 2009) is asking for trouble, IMO. And there's still plenty 512-bytes sectored HDDs around for one to select from, so that there's not any real need to do it yet, either.

[dajhorn]

Does Windows XP Embedded POSReady 2009 have native support for advanced format hard drives, or must I do the trick formatting the partition with Windows 7 first prior to installing POSReady '09?

Yes, you need this trick because POSReady defaults to sector 63.

The bundled diskpart.exe does not implement the 'offset' or 'align' parameters.

POSReady 2009 is identical to Windows XP in all the ways that matter.

[jaclaz]

Since I am picky, these are three separate things.

1. "Initializing" the disk <- this iswhat Windows calls it, what happens is that the MBR code and the Magic Bytes (and Disk Signature) are written to the MBR
2. Creating a partition entry in the MBR
3. Formatting the volume corresponding to that partition entry

 

The first two ones (please read as connected with "Disk Manager" or diskpart which is not part originally of Windows XP) are the problem, as #2 will default to Cylinder aligned partitioning, but this is in itself is NOT an issue (on 512e drives, see below).

 

The actual FORMAT.COM has no issues by itself, in theory, but any number of tools/programs might "choke" on these.

 

You can manually make a partition entry in the MBR using *any* other suitable tool and later use format alright.

 

If you are going to use Extended partition and Logical volumes inside it be VERY aware of a SERIOUS issue with Disk Management:

http://reboot.pro/topic/9897-vistawin7-versus-xp-partitioning-issue/

 

This said, AF disks are somewhat non-standard and different make/models may behave differently, the exact make/model could make a difference between success and failure...

 

In theory an AF disk

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/171236-seagate-expansion-drive-2tb-is-not-detected/?p=1071081

may be compatible with XP SP3, if it is a "AF 512e" while a "native" 4Kb sectored disk is not (unless it is connected via USB) see also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2010/03/why-new-hard-disks-might-not-be-much-fun-for-xp-users/

but the good MS guys exclude compatibility with them for XP:

http://www.rmprepusb.com/tutorials/4k_hdd

and there are more than a few issues even with Vista and 7.

 

So, though somewhat sad  to admit it, as we are a normally into experimenting and finding workarounds, following dencorso's advice is your best option.

 

jaclaz

Edited June 22, 2014 by jaclaz

[eatup]

Whoa man, it's not easy to find non-AF drives nowadays, even for small capacities like 320GB.  They're all AF to get you to dump XP for a new sys (b/c the modern OSes require more computing power just to run decently) to boost PC sales.  It's what the "cartel" does best, plot new ways to get you to upgrade.

 

Anyways, to the above post, if points 1 & 2 are accomplished by Installing Windows 7 on the 1st partition, the 2nd partitition (and onwards) can be reformatted by XP Embedded without any trouble, correct?  (Since XP Embedded setup isn't anything like XP Pro --- Embedded forces you to format the partition it's going to be installed on)

[jaclaz]

Since when?

 

I have NEVER seen drives smaller than 500 Gb which were not 512 bytes sectored.

As an example the WD Blue specs:

http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-771436.pdf

have AF starting at 750 Gb....

and the Seagate 7200.12 are all 512 bytes.

http://www.seagate.com/files/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/barracuda-7200-12-ds1668-6-1101us.pdf

 

jaclaz

[eatup]

^ That is only the specs sheet.  What I mean is, most vendors stopped stocking on non-AF drives...   So, while WD still makes non-AF drives, it's not easy to find them in the market place!

[jaclaz]

Well, there are only three manufacturers, WD Toshiba and Seagate nowadays, see:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/163189-hard-drive-controller-errors-abound-atapi-event-11/?p=1041845

 

The issue might be with local unavailability of "small sized" disks, but really I have never seen a 500 Gb or smaller disk that was not 512 bytes (even because it does not make much sense).

 

jaclaz

[eatup]

^ Then, it might be a surprise to you that WD even went AF for something as small as 320GB.  Here's the proof, stock HDD for a laptop circa 2012 that supposedly still supports XP:

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_migrated/pics/24_hdd_01.jpg

 

Line above "U.S. Patents" declares it...

[jaclaz]

So, a spec sheet is no good, but a picture of a disk is?

 

Come on that is a WD3200BPVT:

http://www.wdc.com/global/products/specs/?driveID=802&language=1

 

Physical Specifications
Formatted Capacity 320,072 MB
Capacity 320 GB
Form Factor 2.5 Inch
User Sectors Per Drive 625,142,448

 

a 320 Gb disk with 625,142,448 sectors has a 512 bytes/sector alright.

 

Whether this is "true" or it is obtained through one of the mentioned "non-standard" or "manufacturer specific" own variation is another matter:

http://www.wdc.com/global/products/features/?id=7&language=1

 

That drive (specifically) is fully compatible with XP, WHILE being "tagged" AF.

 

jaclaz

[eatup]

^ There's no arguing with some people...  Sheesh.  The label clearly reads AF (some manufacturers don't use the big clunky AF logo) and even directs you to a website for more info on the new format...

 

Anyways, I'm too lazy to dig it up.  WD has two lines of Blue hard drives, the old Blue and the new "Scorpion Blue".  The specs you posted refer to the old line of Blues which most vendors no longer carry (at least the non-AF ones)...

Edited June 22, 2014 by eatup

[jaclaz]

^ There's no arguing with some people...  Sheesh.  The label clearly reads AF (some manufacturers don't use the big clunky AF logo) and even directs you to a website for more info on the new format...

 

Anyways, I'm too lazy to dig it up.  WD has two lines of Blue hard drives, the old Blue and the new "Scorpion Blue".  The specs you posted refer to the old line of Blues which most vendors no longer carry (at least the non-AF ones)...

Sure it does, and the link (in your image):

http://www.wdc.com/advformat

now redirects to:

http://www.wdc.com/global/products/features/?id=7&language=1

(already posted) that CLEARS how that particular make/model of AF disk is FULLY compatible with XP (as long as you "align" it).

 

To recap:

1) there are at least TWO different kinds of AF format disks: "512e" and "Native 4K"

2) Microsoft officially does NOT support either of them (and never supported them) for XP and 2003

3) one "kind" of AF disk is the so-called 512e type that exposes (one way or the other) 512 bytes sectors, these are compatible (as long as they are "aligned") BUT there may be issues (reference posted before), even on "normal" 512 bytes sectored disks with "aligned disks and Disk Manager on XP (in some rare cases where a logical volume inside extended is used AND Disk manager is used to change the Active partition). MS  NEVER acknowledged/fixed the mentioned issue (which as said is related to alignment and not to "512e" disks.

4) Unless a specific firmware or driver translation is available (which would make them a kind of 512e), Native 4k won't work on XP NOR on ANY OTHER Windows NT OS before Windows 8:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/hh848035(v=vs.85).aspx

 

jaclaz

[dencorso]

About 4 months ago I bought a pair of WD2002FAEX and then, 3 months ago, one further WD1502FAEX, all of them 512-bytes sectored WD Blacks. And eBay has just given me 70 hits for WD2002FAEX... Look for WDnnnnFAEX for the latest non-AF WD Blacks.

WD Caviar Black (512 or AF) 2011-13.7z