HDD parking click noise?

[Messerschmitt]

So apparently my laptop keeps giving a "click" sound every minute or so, and I have a feeling the HDD is parking?

My laptop has a Toshiba 160Gb.

Any way I can stop the clicking noise?

Thank you

[Richhs]

I've read that this is typically caused by an aggressive power saving mode which causes the HDD to park.

Try reducing the power saving settings.

[GrofLuigi]

[shameless plug] Here's my experience...

Inside there are links to the programs I found most useful: hdparm, HDDScan, QuietHDD.

I read that for toshiba HDDs the value 192 for APM sometimes works better. Example: hdparm.exe -B 192 hda

Additionally, since then I learned a new command that could help: hdparm.exe -S 0 hda

GL

[Messerschmitt]

I installed something called Notebook Hardware Control. Under advanced power management it had:

Enable spin down (1)

Without spindown (128)

Max. performance (254)

And Custom (192)

Default was without spindown. I set it to max performance and the clicks went away.

I tried then and chose custom and left the apm to 192. Seems like the clicks don't happen at this value either...

So what exactly are these APM? Internal HDD codes that tell it how to function?

And why do HDD's click when parking? And most importantly, why does it keep parking every 1 minute or so? Once parked, shouldn't it stay there until I use the HDD again? Do desktop HDD park also and because of all the case fans, you can't hear it?

Thanks. My lack of knowledge about HDD's is quite great

P.S. Since my laptop is still in warranty, should I ask for a HDD replacement? From what I've read from other people, there are HDD's who don't make click noises in laptops?

[GrofLuigi]

Some general explanations of the term(s) are linked at the start of my linked post.

From what I observed, this change of behavior started around the time when 100+ Gb 2,5'' HDDs became dominant in the market. Maybe it was the increased platter density, appearance of SATA/NCQ/Vista, or something else, but the manufacturers decided they needed to park the heads more often. Maybe also for shock protection (anticipation you drop your laptop down ). From what I've seen in forums, it can happen in any OS, but XP users are more prone to noticing it, and I suspect many users don't notice it at all or don't mind it. Also, I think Vista/7 "know better" how to communicate with the HDD and maybe do something to prevent the click. I've seen it with my own eyes, two OSs on a same laptop, clicks on XP, doesn't on the newer OS.

It isn't a sign of anything wrong, so I don't think they'll acknowledge your warranty, and besides, chances are you will receive a new drive that behaves just the same. I think desktop drives aren't set to park their heads so often because they aren't expected to be dropped often. It's in the HDD's firmware.

GL

[puntoMX]

Also, I think Vista/7 "know better" how to communicate with the HDD and maybe do something to prevent the click. I've seen it with my own eyes, two OSs on a same laptop, clicks on XP, doesn't on the newer OS.

What I've seen, Vista and Windows 7 still give that same clicking/parking sound as with XP. My desktop system with Windows 7 clicks/parks 3 times before turning off (Seagate 7200.11/AMD SB750/ACHI BIOS). Note that it doesn't only rely on the OS but Also the BIOS of the motherboard, firmware of the controller and firmware of the drive itself.

The only thing I can say is not to worry about it and when it fails just replace the drive and reinstall your OS with your programs. Needless to say that everybody needs to keep their important info on 2 or more separated media .

Now, if it really was a problem, think about that the drive could be loosing power or not having enough power; take the drive out and put it back in a few times till all the contacts are "scraped clean" from oxidation.

[Messerschmitt]

Thank you all for the replies.

So from all those programs

hdparm, HDDScan, QuietHDD.

maybe others, which one is the most lightweight program that can provide me with the ability to just change the HDD APM to 192 to prevent the clicking? if I don't need to have it set to start with windows (msconfig, startup) even better. Notebook hardware controler I've seen it it does not require be started during windows boot, but it does not appear as being a light weight application (so many other options, including voltage control).

Cheers!

[GrofLuigi]

Thank you all for the replies.

So from all those programs

hdparm, HDDScan, QuietHDD.

maybe others, which one is the most lightweight program that can provide me with the ability to just change the HDD APM to 192 to prevent the clicking? if I don't need to have it set to start with windows (msconfig, startup) even better. Notebook hardware controler I've seen it it does not require be started during windows boot, but it does not appear as being a light weight application (so many other options, including voltage control).

Cheers!

QuietHDD is very lightweight, its icon can be hidden and you will not even know it's there. The biggest plus is it's the only program that will continue to work after the computer returns from suspend/standby, otherwise you'll hear the click again.

Otherwise, if I wanted something on demand, I'd extract hdparm to System32 (it's a command line program) and make a shortcut or .bat with something like this:

hdparm.exe -B 192 -S 0 hda

or, exactly and only what you wanted:

hdparm.exe -B 192 hda

Assuming that the hard disk is your first drive (on a laptop, probably it is). Otherwise, it would be hdb, hdc, etc.

You can see more data about your drive with the command line:

hdparm.exe -I hda

GL

Edited November 30, 2010 by GrofLuigi

[Messerschmitt]

Thanks for the instructions.

Atm, I'm having another sound issue, something that winds up for like half/1 second then clicks, quite loudly (compared to the faint clicks every minute or so when the HDD is parking). It only happens like once an hour, so not sure what it is. I'm thinking it could be coming from the DVD-rw, but not sure, it's really hard to identify the source.

[GrofLuigi]

Thanks for the instructions.

Atm, I'm having another sound issue, something that winds up for like half/1 second then clicks, quite loudly (compared to the faint clicks every minute or so when the HDD is parking). It only happens like once an hour, so not sure what it is. I'm thinking it could be coming from the DVD-rw, but not sure, it's really hard to identify the source.

Maybe it's the DVD, something is trying to access it. I hear something similar very rarely, but it's not loud. Make sure there's no medium in the drive, check your antivirus settings if you have it. I'd search in registry for all references to the DVD (example: D:\) and carefully review them. But that's just me.

To hear the real sound of HDD spindown/spinup, use HDDScan > button New Task (it will open a menu) > Features > IDE Features > then on the right bottom use the two buttons Spindown and Spinup. Don't worry, you won't harm your computer.

You may also try to record the sound and upload it somewhere.

GL

[Messerschmitt]

Hi,

I have managed to record the sound it does. I really don't think it's the DVD-RW. Also when it happens, I don't have anything in the DVD-RW. I still think it's a parking noise. Before I also had some clicks, but a LOT more fainter than this, and a lot more frequent (~1 minute).

The faint clicks stopped when I installed Notebook hardware control, and set the HDD to 192 APM. However, from what time I had to test, it looks like the loud click will not happen when NHC is actually running?

I have another file which is bassically this one but it's sound is boosted via GoldWave, but apparently I cannot attach both files since they are over 500k. Let me know if you wish me to upload that one instead.

Edit: Ok, I have uploaded the other file too in 2shared.

Link: http://www.2shared.com/audio/kG48LMoP/clicking2.html

clicking.rar

Edited December 8, 2010 by Messerschmitt

[GrofLuigi]

Yes, it sound like the HDD.

But for the cause, I'm not so sure, it can be many things... Maybe another value besides 192 might work better (254 or 255), another program might work better (yes, I had tried NHC a long time ago and wasn't satisfied with it, but if it's the only thing that works for you, you might have no choice...), it might be the drive performing thermal recalibration, it might indeed be something wrong with the drive (but if, as you say, NHC stops it, it's highly unlikely)...

[edit] Messerschmitt, I think I lost the difference between "loud" and "faint" clicks, and I'm not sure which happens when... Have the "faint" ones stopped now and we're talking only about the "loud" one (+ winding), as heard in the sample? Which program(s) are you using currently? Which OS? Have you disabled turning off of HDDs in Power Properties and/or tried using Powercfg.exe? Are you sure that "loud" isn't the same as "faint", just... well... louder?

GL

Edited December 8, 2010 by GrofLuigi

[Messerschmitt]

Before installing NHC, I had faint clicks every minute or so, and the big loud one with the winding once or twice in a few hours period.

Once I installed NHC, and change the APM o 254 or 192, the faint clicks stopped. They stopped even if NHC is or is not running. And from what I could notice in the short time, the big loud click happens when NHC is not running (the one in the sample).

I would also like to mention that I am a bit concerned about the HDD temp too. I noticed it reach 49°C. And it's winter now, in my room it's only 21-22°C. I don't want to think what the HDD temp will be in the summer when my room will be 27+°C.

Atm, I'm running NHC, and trying to figure out for sure if the clicks stop when NHC stays running, vs not running. I'm running Win XP Pro. Not sure what Powercfg.exe is. I tried running it in Run, but will just quickly open the cmd and close it. And I'm pretty sure it's not the same sound. Besides, the obvious difference in sound, the faint clicks were happening every minute or so when the HDD was idle. From what I could notice, this loud click happens also when HDD is idle? (but it happened even when HDD was idle for like 1-2 minutes only), so I don't think the HDD was turning off, etc.

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure which clicks are parking and which is something else. The faint clicks, or this big loud one. I never had a laptop before to compare HDD sounds, except my desktop, and that thing doesn't do any sound other when the HDD is being used with the HDD LED working hard.

[GrofLuigi]

Powercfg.exe is the command line equivalent to the Power Options control panel, has few more options than it and an ability to query devices, but that's mostly on Vista+. And it's pretty complicated to use, so for now forget about it.

About the temperature, I don't think it's a problem. My Seagate's temp is 46°C, in similar room conditions as yours. In laptops there is very little room and poor ventilation, so HDDs are designed to take the heat, so to speak. Maybe you could investigate some more if you want to, download the HDD's datasheet from Toshiba. I just checked mine (mk1665gsx_datasheet.pdf from storage.toshiba.eu), Toshiba HDD in the laptop I don't use often, and it says Ambient Temperature: 5~55°C, but says nothing about the drive's temperature. So I still think it's not a problem, but I might have gotten something wrong, so again, if you're not sure, investigate what's normal/usual operating temperature for laptop HDD.

Later: I found the data about my other drive, Seagate, which has Ambient Temperature 0-60, and for it it says:

Ambient temperature is defined as the temperature of the environment immediately surrounding the drive.
Actual drive case temperature should not exceed 65°C (149°F) within the operating ambient conditions.

So, if we approximate, for the Toshiba it could be 60°C maybe.

I forgot nearly everything about NHC, but I think it maybe installed a service, so it's constantly polling the HDD? Even if that's not the case, just setting the APM value once should be enough to stop the clicks, if the laptop doesn't go into standby. QuietHDD should also work just as good. What I would do, is try deactivating NHC and booting with no program of this kind, then trying the command line hdparm.exe -B 192 -S 0 hda (later, changing 192 to 254 and/or 255 after reboot) and working on the laptop for a longer time (several hours) each time to learn its behavior. Yes, it takes time, I did it too...

GL

[GrofLuigi]

About the loud vs faint click, I'm still not sure what's going on. That's what my guess was about (if it's the same thing or not). Maybe you already modified the drive's behavior. Most of the manufacturers have different commands/interfaces to the drive, so it's never the same. Many IDE desktop HDDs (maxtors, maybe all?) could have their AAM set permanently, to survive after reboot and power down. I doubt this is the case here, but who knows... I was baffled to find out that Seagate doesn't use AAM at all due to some patent issue. What I wanted to say, check AAM also, it could definitely modify the sound (that's its purpose, after all).

GL