Hardware purchase

[cluberti]

So, as some of you know, I've been a MacBook Pro user for quite some time now, and I love it. I run Vista on it exclusively, but I've been woo'ed into the Mac laptop hardware and I don't think I can go back to my beloved Thinkpad line anytime soon. However, I'm in the market for a desktop replacement for my 3 year old AMD 3700 box w/2GB RAM, and I thought "hey, the Mac hardware for the laptop was great - let's check out the Mac Pro desktops". All I've heard is that, for a similarly configured machine on the high end, Mac hardware was close to PC hardware in price and that I should give the Mac a second look. Wow, that couldn't be more wrong...

I spec'ed out a baseline Mac Pro, adding just 2GB RAM and hard drives (hey, I was thinking "high-end", right? So, this is Apple's "high-end" box, so let's configure it!):

- Intel 2.8GHz quad-core proc

- 4GB RAM

- ATI Radeon HD 2600XT 256MB video card

- 4x500GB hard drives

- MacPro RAID controller

... for USD $4,249 (not including shipping/tax). Ouch. To be fair, I spec'ed out a 2.66GHz dual-core iMac with 1 500GB drive and 4GB RAM (not "high-end" in comparison, but I want to make sure I'm not being totally sensationalist), and that machine came out to $1,799 with a 20" screen - not bad.

So, I did what I always do - spec'ed out a DIY PC, getting everything from newegg.com (just for the sake of ease of shopping from one vendor, so as not to seem to be shopping for the "lowest price" online - also, I want a "high-end" box, as I only do this once every 3 - 4 years, so it has to be ready for Windows 7 too with little or no tweaking):

- Intel 2.66GHz quad-core (Q9450) proc

- 16GB RAM

- ATI Radeon HD 3650 512MB video card

- 4x500GB hard drives

obviously I also need a motherboard, case, and PSU in addition to the above to match the MacPro config (I would have to assume that for $4K it'd come with a nice case, mobo, and PSU ):

- Cooler Master Cosmos S RC-1100-KKN1-GP case

- Enermax MODU82+ PSU

- MSI Neo-3 P45 mobo

... for USD $1,737.89 (again, not including shipping/tax).

And had I gone with 4GB RAM in this box, I could have easily purchased a Viewsonic or Samsung 20" LCD and come in at just under $1,600 + $200 for Vista ultimate - and the tradeoffs on each (iMac has a widescreen 20" and this does not, and the DIY PC has 2 more CPU cores) make the DIY 4GB and iMac 4GB about equal once configured. So, I guess Apple's idea of a "high-end" PC equivalent that I hear about all the time being "the same price" is the iMac 2.66Ghz with a 20" screen (the 24" models get up to ~$2,500 with 4GB RAM, and the difference between a 20" and 24" monitor for the DIY box is not $900). I don't consider the iMac the equivalent of a "high-end" PC, and as soon as you go over 4GB (8GB, 16GB) or want a quad-core box, or RAID that doesn't cost $5K, you CAN'T get it in a Mac (at least from Apple). Maybe Psystar can sell me an OSX license to run on my new PC?

So, now that I'm not buying a Mac Pro and I've thought about it, what can you do with USD $2,511.11???

[gamehead200]

Mac hardware is WAY expensive when you start adding on extras (RAM, HDs, etc...) which is why I tell people to skip the extras and buy it separately. You can get quality hardware cheaper than buying it straight from Apple. As an example, when I bought my MacBook Pro, the 4GB RAM option was going to cost me an extra ~$750 (yikes!). I bought 2 sticks of OCZ 2GB PC2-5400 for $100 at the time, a savings of ~$650!

Anyways, back to your question... I'd plan a trip to an all-inclusive resort somewhere down south!

[cluberti]

Problem is, the "baseline" box with 2GB RAM and a small hard drive (1) was $2,799!!! That's still about USD $1K more expensive, for FAR less (I don't care how good the hardware is, that's not enough hardware for way too much - 14GB RAM more for $1K less...).

[gamehead200]

Yeah, well, like a lot of people have told me, you can get an equally spec'ed machine for less than half what you'd normally pay for an Apple machine. When you buy a Mac, you're essentially paying for the Apple brand and the ability to use Mac OS *legally*.

[cluberti]

So assuming the hardware was similar and the pricing was about the same, that makes the MacOS about $2K? So, Vista ultimate really *is* cheaper, by about $1,800! .

[gamehead200]

WELL, like I said, you're paying for the Apple brand too, so that's worth AT LEAST $1.5k!

Enough joking around - I've got to admit, though, Apple does make a quality product that usually has fewer kinks out of the box than most computers do (DIY or store-bought).

[cluberti]

True, I suppose, but it's not worth $2,500 bucks to me for the 30 minutes it'll take to build/test the box. Plus, I spec'ed out basically the same config (16GB RAM) and the box shot up to ~$7,900 - so the markup isn't ~$2,500, it's actually more like $5,800! - so that makes the MacOS price $4,300 (if you are correct that the apple logo was $1,500) .

[CoffeeFiend]

So, now that I'm not buying a Mac Pro and I've thought about it, what can you do with USD $2,511.11???

Build your own PC, with h**kers and blackjack! In fact, forget about the blackjack. </bender> (yes, I know, I know... I didn't even open that tag!)

Mac hardware was close to PC hardware in price and that I should give the Mac a second look. Wow, that couldn't be more wrong...

Actually, the MacBook Pro is quite overpriced. I've seen Dells and such that were better or equal on every single spec than them, for hundreds less.

Their Mac Mini is laughable. Yes, it's small and low power, but so is a Asus EEE box (or anything self-built from a Intel Atom or VIA Nano board), at like half the price. The Mini is slow, has very little disk space (plus, it's a slow laptop drive), can't really be upgraded at all, etc. Yuck!

The Mac Pro funnily is their only decently-priced box -- comparatively. Try to build a dual socket Xeon workstation (with 4 or 8 cores), using a good workstation motherboard that can use up to 8 FB-DIMMs (yes, fancy ECC RAM modules) and all that. Add the nice case, options like hardware RAID and all that, and you won't really save much, if anything. Go price the same thing from any other vendor (e.g. Dell, HP, etc), and the price will be very similar too.

What you should complain about is the lack of a decent choice of hardware. You want a "normal" desktop, with a dual or quad core non-server CPU, with standard non-ECC RAM, on a desktop board and all that, like 99%+ of the population? Well, sorry then, Apple doesn't care/has no product to fill that need, and probably never will. Unless you go for their computer-in-a-monitor joke (iMac), that still has poor hardware choices and poor prices -- $1799 for a dual core with 500GB HD and 4GB RAM + 20" LCD is quite bad really. You could build it for almost half that (or build something MUCH nicer for the price), and not be stuck getting a new computer when the monitor fails, or have to ditch the monitor to upgrade the computer...

[fizban2]

Depending on how long you feel like waiting the Intel Core i7 (Nehalem) will be out later this year and will proceed to smash all. even if you don't want to get one of the new chips, the prices for C2D will drop. the 2.66 i7 is suppose to run around 300$ so you aren''t looking at much more then the 2.66 Quad. plus you get 8 cores (hyperthreading is back!) to work with can you say virtual machine happy!

[puntoMX]

... can you say virtual machine happy!

If you go with AMD then yes .

I hope they got it right this time at Intel...

So, now that I'm not buying a Mac Pro and I've thought about it, what can you do with USD $2,511.11???

Actually, you can do a lot and still keep a nice 24" screen in too. But I wonder how to get the 16GB, they just released 4GB DIMM that seem to work perfectly on the P45 chipset...

Let´s have a look at some toyz at Newegg and I´ll post back .

[cluberti]

Actually, you can do a lot and still keep a nice 24" screen in too. But I wonder how to get the 16GB, they just released 4GB DIMM that seem to work perfectly on the P45 chipset...

The MSI board is slated to work with the OCZ 4x4GB package I found for $395 at newegg - 16GB. Finally reasonably priced!

[ripken204]

i built a hackintosh for someone just for that reason. apple computer seems to be 2x or more overpriced than they should be. but hey, at least their OS is way cheaper then vista

isnt that whats really important? ripping off our customs and bad mouthing microsoft...

now i dont have anything against OS X, i actually like it, but these fanboys just kill me, and if i even bought an apple computer i would have to be out of my mind.

[puntoMX]

I could not finish it yesterday, power brownouts and heavy tropical storms over here .

Antec Twelve Hundred Black ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS4P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

ASUS EAH3850/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Antec TruePower Quattro TPQ-1000 1000W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply - Retail

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail

OCZ Vista Upgrade 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Quad kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ2VU80016GQ - Retail

Four of these: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 - Retail

Acer P243WAid Black-Silver 24" 2ms(GTG) HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor with HDCP Support - Retail

Microsoft 69K-00001 Gray 5 Buttons Tilt Wheel USB RF Wireless Laser Natural Mouse 6000 - Retail

SAMSUNG 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223F - OEM

Subtotal: $2,255.82

[cluberti]

Nice rig. Only a few issues, starting with the video card. I like the "silent" variants, as the last few cards I've used with fans sound like vacuum cleaners, which is why I'd stick with an MSI 2600 card or an Asus Silent going forward.

[Zxian]

Ugh... pre-made "silent" cards usually have horrible thermal performance. I'd personally go for a stanard video card and strap on an Accelero S1 for cooling.