PsiMoon314 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hi,There is an interesting comment on this thread from a mod regarding the ownership of information and postings placed on MSFN.... The post does not belong to you, it belongs to the MSFN administration and community, ...Can someone please point me to where this assertion of copyright is made publicly and what law or statue (presumably international) which allows such a claim to made?If I have the copywrite to something and chose to post it here then I still hold the copywrite. Nothing has changed with regards to the ownership of the material. It is simply being reproduced here, nothing is implied about the status of that material unless a copywrite statement is also posted with it.The best you might be able to claim is that the posting itself is the "property" of MSFN but it's content may (and very probably) is NOT the property of MSFN.This mod seems to be stating that everything posted here belongs to MSFN and the community via some undisclosed mechanism or placed in the public domain.Can someone please clarify the situation here?Kind RegardsSimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xper Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Forum Terms & Rules Welcome to the Microsoft Software Forum Network! You have chosen to join one of the best and fast-growing forums on the Internet dealing with everything related to Microsoft. We started as a small group back in Aug. of 2001 and have grown to be one of the most knowledgeable forums around. We hope you stay a while and share your XPeriences with others as we have. Below are some guidelines that will keep you out of trouble here. With that out of the way, we hope that you enjoy your stay at MSFN! Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message. The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary. You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board. Please take a moment to review these rules detailed above. Please read forum rules before you hit "Register". If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser. » The MSFN TeamHope this help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiMoon314 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) Hi,Thanks for that however that reply does not appear to contain one piece of useful information related to my original post.Anyone else care to give a relevant response?Should I just assume that the mod I quote in my OP was not speaking with the official voice of MSFN and basically doesn't know what they are talking about?Kind RegardsSimon Edited January 9, 2008 by PsiMoon314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntoMX Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Okay, there we go:This board is an international board, laws are hard to apply so we made rules: it’s up to the staff to do with the information posted or in any other way made publicity here on the site.Just the simple way to put it.We could make a whole bookwork about laws and right, and properly we should when you enter the site and become a member. If you have any advice we would be pleased to hear this from you.Should I just assume that the mod I quote in my OP was not speaking with the official voice of MSFN and basically doesn't know what they are talking about?No, that’s just his approach, and he knows where he’s talking about. The fault that has been made in that topic is that communication should have gone by PMs, not in public on the board.Rules (now also seen as guidelines, and will be changed in rules):8. Has the thread you started or participated in been moved, closed or deleted? Check with the forum moderator via PM. Under no circumstances start threads asking why other threads were moderated. Forum moderation is not up for public debate, such threads will be deleted and the thread starter warned. MSFN reserves the right to edit, delete or move posts made on this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiMoon314 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hi,I was not questioning the fact or the details of the moderation of that specific thread.I was specifically asking about the comments the mod published regarding the ownership of the information and materials posted on MSFN and the board.Someone senior in the MSFN world should be looking into this issue because it could become important.As an example, if MSFN were sold to some third-party then would the messages stored on the message board form part of the sale? I suspect they would and therefore be considered an asset and be worth something. However the vast majority of the post were not made by persons connected with MSFN but by others who would still have the copyright on them.So, does MSFN own the posts? Probably not given there seems to be nothing regarding this in the MSFN rules or agreement. Each post would appear to be owned by the person who posted it.They almost certainly do not own the copyright on them unless the copyright holder has transferred this to MSFN.To claim otherwise could be a breach of international law and the relevant laws for where the MSFN servers are located.Kind RegardsSimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntoMX Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 So, by alternating a post you are saying we are breaking the law?Please fill us in on this, could you post the international laws that could apply on this forum please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsenellenelvian Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 OMG What a _____________ hey please quit trying to cause trouble.It fairly clearly states we have the ability to modify and can do so at will whenever we feel nessecary.This breaks no US laws as we reserve the right to refuse service.Also this breaks no international laws as you agreed to them when you clicked the little box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idontwantspam Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Isn't the definition of a moderator someone who moderates the forum, and wouldn't modifying posts as necessary fall under that category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zxian Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You're mixing up two very different things here... ownership and copyright are different topics. The post that you make is stored on MSFN servers, paid for by MSFN staff (specifically xper). Therefore, the bits and bytes that comprise a post are the property of MSFN. The content of the post (and whatever intellectual property that it contains) are the property of the poster (as per copyright laws). MSFN reserves the right to edit a post if it conflicts with the Forum Rules (you gave us that right when registering). MSFN also holds the right to edit the forum rules at any time.I'm not sure how much more simple it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submix8c Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 (edited) WOOHOO! And that's a quote from Zxian, so there's the answer; "intellectual rights" are defended.May get deleted, but there musta been a reason; may get modified, so complain to the "editor", otherwise don't post "property" if you don't want it modified away from your original version. After all, this is a free and open board. I don't think anyone (MSFN) wants to "steal" anything from you.If you don't want to "give it away", don't! If you want to "sell it", put it somewhere else...I got no complaints; just here to get help and to give it (if possible). I see no "ownership" in anything I put here, or I'd put in on my own "server" and accept "Pay Pal". ("Depends on what your defintion of IS is"... we're splitting hairs!) Edited January 10, 2008 by submix8c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tain Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Nice explanation, Zxian! This is a sticky subject that most online ventures wrestle with. Being part of an international community has challenges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzöwl Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Just as a side note, my post stated "The post does not belong to you, it belongs to the MSFN administration and community" and as shown above is correct.If you look at the reason for my response in context you will see that it is given because the post originator due to not liking actions taken against them decided that the post should now be deleted. Although they have some semblence of ownership of the post content, they do not have control over topic deletion. There are official methods for requesting these things and had they used one of those methods without being rude I'd have done so without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiMoon314 Posted January 10, 2008 Author Share Posted January 10, 2008 Hi Kelsenellenelvian,OMG What a _____________ hey please quit trying to cause trouble.Dude, calm down and take a chill pill. I am not causing trouble but bring to someone's attention a possible issue that needs to be addressed.It fairly clearly states we have the ability to modify and can do so at will whenever we feel nessecary.This breaks no US laws as we reserve the right to refuse service.I am not questioning the terms and conditions of the site, the service it offers, or the right of MSFN to refuse service to anyone as it seems fit. These comments are therefore unnecessary and irrelevant to the point I am attempting to make.I am attempting to clarify what appears to be a misconception that MSFN owns the posts and has the right to do what it like with the information contained within them. I am afraid it doesn't and to claim otherwise is false.Also this breaks no international laws as you agreed to them when you clicked the little box...As you don't seem to be aware of the fact, a contract cannot give you the right to break the law. This is so basic that I am surprised I have to make this clear.If this were not the case then the law would be meaningless as any contract anywhere could in effect reverse a particular law. For example, you would have the right to end someone's life because they signed a contract that said you could do this. This is clearly not the case.In many countries contracts can also be deemed to be unfair (and null and void) if they contain terms or conditions which are clearly difficult or impossible to fulfil or basically plain daft.Kind RegardsSimon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzöwl Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 @ PsiMoon314I'm sorry, but I fail to see where you're going with your side of this discussion.You Started a topic whereby you've changed the terms used `belongs to` meaning, in the context it was taken, `to be part of/a member of something larger` and made it appear to mean `being an owner, possessing or having a legal right to possession of something` for your own purpose.Could you please explain exactly what you feel this forum has no rights to do with the posts of its members and try to give reasons for them.Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puntoMX Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 @ PsiMoon314I'm sorry, but I fail to see where you're going with your side of this discussion.@ PsiMoon314,Please answer my two questions too.If you did made this topic just to get attention then you did well, but just tell us if you want some thing out of it, or to help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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