Eck

nudgegoonies, If everythings working it seems fine. The sp2 is where the updated versions of the files are, so that's fine. And changing the Network properties usually includes some file copying so that seems fine too. Now, I'm no networking guy, just a home hobby at this point so I hope someone else will confirm my logic for you. CLASYS, Heh, heh. "Wussie mode." I like that. Nice report on the Windows Update stuff. Yes, I was aware of most but that was nicely stated all in one spot. Interesting reading. I'm gonna print that out in case an argument ever comes up. I won't go out of my way to push it over there. I'll just leave sleeping dogs lie. (He, He.) They're not setting up my computers so there's no point to my trying to push too much. I couldn't sit while they were trashing all this work though.

Well, I wasn't the one getting the 95 to 98SE update working! I just read about it. Never owned Windows 95 (or used it.) But, yeah that $20 cd is only used within Windows, not from dos. But that means it would be fine for krick as all he wants to do is upgrade to 98SE from 98 1st edition. But, he has what he needs with his 98SE Upgrade cd anyway (as long as he runs from dos, like we said.) I just wanted to point out some of the alternatives available.

It's possible that MDGx might miss this as it isn't posted in the 98SE2ME sticky thread. Perhaps you would get a quicker answer from him if you post it there?

That might work. The one on my motherboard cd seems to be a later version however (but only by a few months.) Ninho should check the dates. Also, I don't have a sisusb2.inf but only the usb2.inf on my cd. My inf causes it to be listed as Microsoft Standard Enhanced, etc. The one in this file will just call it Enhanced, etc. I would try the one on your cd first unless the download is specifically for your board and is a later version.

Yep, should be no problem doing what you want in dos. Not within Windows though. You've got your Windows 95 cd so you're all set to prove your elegible. Just do like erpdude8 said and delete or rename win.com from dos. I think it's been done without uninstalling Internet Explorer first, but I would do that just in case. Microsoft posted some info about setup not handling Outlook Express properly if Outlook Express 5 is left there. So having the IE uninstaller do its thing of returning the system to Internet Explorer 4 might be a good idea. You can copy the files first, but I usually make a WINDOWS\OPTIONS directory when I'm done and copy the WIN98 folder there. Then I rename the WIN98 folder to CABS. Then I go to regedit and wander to HKEY LOCAL MACHINE - Software - Microsoft - Windows - Current Version - SETUP and modify the Source files to C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS and the OLS Source path to the same but add \OLS. You won't use that (the online services folder) but Windows should at least have the proper path setup.

That's just the standard Windows 98SE Upgrade version, as opposed to the version that doesn't require owning a previous version. It is a full install though, so you don't need 98 1st edition installed first. But you do need a Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 cd or floppy version for when it asks for proof of eligiblity for installation. I don't think it will run as an upgrade for 98 1st edition. That being said, if you don't want to format and really want to simply update to 2nd edition using this cd, and you manage to borrow or somehow acquire a Windows 3.1 or 95 floppy or cd, you can delete win.com from the Windows folder in dos, then boot from a startup floppy. Run setup from the cd, insert your proof with the Win 3.1 or 95 when asked, and change the Windows folder to where yours is currently (usually C:\WINDOWS). It is recommended (by Microsoft) that you first normally uninstall from add/remove programs Internet Explorer if you have updated it from the IE4 origionally installed by Windows 98 1st Edition. Setup will then install Windows 98SE, replacing your current Windows files with the updated versions, include all the additional 98SE parts, and still leave your installed programs all connected properly in the registry. If there is a way to use that cd without proof of a previous version, I don't know about it. And, although it would be nice if it would accept your current version (98 1st Edition) as proof, I don't think it does. Another option for you is finding and purchasing the Windows 98SE Updates cd. This is also a full version cd, however it is designed to update a currently installed Windows 98 1st edition to 98SE. It was removed from sale because it also would update Windows 95! (A nice bug, for those that discovered it.) This was $20 originally, and I've seen it on Ebay for the same. That, you can run from within Windows and it will do its thing, reboot a few times like a normal Windows install, and when it's done you have Windows 98SE! Watch out! I don't mean the Windows 98 Service Pack 1 cd. That one does not give you 98SE, just some important updates to Windows 98 1st edition that are also still provided free from the normal Windows Update online. (It saved time for those on dialup connections at the time.)

erpdude8, Yes I suppose he'll discover these new incompatibilities if he uses some of the problem applications. I had a problem with an old game, Star Trek Captain's Chair. Well, not actually a game but a program that uses Shockwave Director with embedded Quicktime mov files. When I had XP SP2 running at the time, the only way to run the game was to install 98SE on VMWare. Before SP2 this game ran fine on XP. Surprisingly my other old games that use this type of thing still ran properly on XP SP2. I remember reading of your experiences with the Unofficial Service Pack. I agree that certain things it does probably result in the negative effects you experienced. In fact, I don't remember how my system was setup at the time but I had some of the same fun you did with Windows no longer starting up properly and/or resetting my registry back to a saved copy automatically, resulting in losing a whole days worth of updating the system. Since I had no idea where exactly I was at the time of the registry restore I just formatted and started over. I hate when that happens. Same thing used to happen to me when rebooting after installing RealPlayer. That's when I started disabling the ethernet and setting ZoneAlarm to not run at startup immediately after installing RealPlayer. Once rebooted I reenable everything. I do this even on XP now, as recently XP would no longer startup after installing RealPlayer. So I do the disable ethernet and ZoneAlarm before restarting on XP as well now. I don't want to take a chance. So we're never completely assured that some software glitch won't potentially bring Windows to its knees no matter what version of Windows (even the supposedly protected XP.) We all do the best we can to set Windows up to run as stable as possible. I'll be making a return to XP soon since I'm testing out my new Foxconn 748K7AA board. I just ordered a second one since I have 2 Socket A CPU's (actually 3 as I just ordered the OEM Sempron 3300+ so I'll have my 2 Socket A motherboards both running at the best speeds possible for Socket A.) I'll just be retiring the boards I've been using in favor of the 2 Foxconn boards since I like the SiS748 chip better than all the Via chips I've been using. And, XP will go in since I now know the Foxconn runs 98SE fine. I want to see what XP SP2 can do on it. I'll run 98 on VMWare. The Unofficial Service Pack has worked fine for me with the exception of the one time I had a similar experience to what you reported. I don't remember exactly what happend, except reformatting. I just don't like it being dismissed so easily for those folks who would generally do nothing except go to Windows Update. I'd rather have them try using the Service Pack as most folks probably wouldn't know how to manually apply some of the tweaks that the Service Pack will do for them, as well as some of the hotfixes it applies. If they're starting with a fresh install, and Service Pack doesn't work for them, they won't lose much time by starting over fresh again without it. I figure it's worth a shot.

Don't mean to interfere here, but does your motherboard cd have the Windows 2000 USB 2.0 driver on it? If so, I might try uninstalling the OrangeWare stuff. Then uninstall all your USB drivers and software and unplug anything hooked up to it. Then make sure that SiS stuff (the nousb file and the autoexec reference to it) isn't still installed. Then remove all your root hubs and usb host controllers from device manager and reboot. This will refresh that stuff after all the fooling around with OrangeWare. Then reboot again so Windows registry catches up with the drivers it installed (not USB 2.0 yet, but it will automatically install the USB 1.1). Then do what I said before and update within device manager the question marked Universal Serial Bus Controller to the Windows 2000 USB 2.0 driver on your cd. Reboot. Then install your software for your devices, then the hardware, one at a time, rebooting between each step. See if you get your 2.0 speed.

If you browse to the 98SE updates and fixes on mdgx.com, he lists them from the bottom up oldest to newest. (Newest on top.) In seperate sections, he has the Internet Explorer, 98SE add-on's, Direct X, and WMP updates also listed that way. His site is a great way to do your reading so you'll know what each update does. If you print them all out, or download his packages that have them in txt form, you'll have the handy guide right in front of you while you update.

Yes, it's the manufacturer's motherboard cd. Look around in there to see where they are on your cd. I think that's the only way USB 2.0 drivers are distributed for the SiS boards. Via puts there's on their viaarena website. I don't know why they're allowed to do that as the other manufacturer's usually state that they can't due to licencing agreements. On XP, with the Via boards I did usually install the latest download from viaarena over the Microsoft XP USB 2.0 driver. I think this left the XP driver alone but provided some performance tweaks to it. On the SiS boards when using XP you just leave the Microsoft USB 2.0 driver. On 9x though, apparently SiS is simply fulfilling its licensing agreement by turning off USB 2.0. I don't have any USB HD's to test the speed, but the Power reading on all the Root Hubs is 500mA per port, if that's related. And my Thrustmaster gamepad's vibration is working, which I think requires USB 2.0. And, as I said, the HP Scanjet 3970 is a USB 2.0 device (although backwards compatible). It generally complains with a message box if installed to a USB 1.1 port and I got no complaints on this system. So, I think I've got it. It is a Microsoft driver. I also think that the Windows 2000 driver is fine on 9x. I remember on the Via boards that they didn't differentiate between the different operating systems for the USB 2.0 driver. It was the same driver no matter which OS (9x, XP) it was installed on. I do install the Microsoft 98SE patch for USB on AMD chipsets greater than 350 MHz even though it is was originally designed for Via controllers, as the usbman website recommends this for the SiS 7001 drivers on 9x. As far as what you've got now, I don't think you would still have the Universal Serial Bus Controllers listed there, unless that is what your USB 1.0 drivers are called. I think the Enhanced driver is supposed to replace that. Not sure though. You should still have listed whatever the USB 1.0 drivers are. But, if there's no question mark there and the driver is stated to be "working properly" then perhaps that what your's are called. On mine it's the SiS 7001 controllers. I have 3 of those (1 for each set of 2 USB inputs, as I have installed a USB 2.0 bracket borrowed from my Abit KW7 to the additional connector on the board so I get 2 more USB 2.0 inputs for a total of 6 inputs). Then I have the Enhanced driver listed, then the Root Hubs. I have 8 inputs actually as I also connected the front USB 2.0 from my case to the second input provided on the motherboard. That's why a couple of the root hubs list 3 inputs available instead of 2. Normally, I would have expected 4 root hubs, but apparently this board combines the 2 optional plugins on the motherboard.

I just setup a new Foxconn 748K7AA board with 98SE. It's a SiS 748 board. You're right. For an unexplained reason the USB 2.0 installer sets up autoexec to run that nousb file on every boot, which of course just disables Windows detection of the USB 2.0 hardware. I'm sneaky when it comes to 98SE though. We all must be, in these days when we seem to be forced, kicking and screaming, into running XP or to miss out on all the neat stuff. Here's how I enabled it. Don't install USB 2.0 from the cd. If you already did, delete the nousb file in the Windows folder and the associated entry in autoexec and reboot. You should have that question marked Universal Serial Bus device in device manager back. Update the driver to the USB 2.0 driver in the Windows2000 folder on the cd (browse to it). You'll now have the Microsoft Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller. As far as I can tell I have USB 2.0. My scanner is a high speed USB device that I remember complained when I installed it to a USB 1.1 port on my Asus A7V333, suggesting I use a detected USB 2.0 port instead. It isn't complaining on this board and is working fine, as is my Thrustmaster USB 2.0 force feedback gamepad. Neither Foxconn or SiS post the USB 2.0 driver on the web. I think it is only on the motherboard cd. But you must manually install it on Windows 98SE and Windows Me as for some reason we aren't meant to have it. I haven't noticed any instability. In fact, for a $35 board I feel like I robbed a bank or something. I got this one from newegg but since they ran out I just ordered another one from ebay. I have 2 Athlon XP's so these boards will replace the one's I paid $80 for as they do not suffer from several instability problems associated with the more expensive boards. And, ooooh! Dos memory management, EMM386, etc, works on these unlike the Asus A7V880 or Abit KW7 I've been using. I disabled the by default enabled wake on events and USB keyboard and mouse support. With expanded memory enabled by EMM386, it doesn't have enough to load devices high. So it's not perfect. But if ran with noems it has the full package of memory available for loadhigh. I'm a little sorry I already installed my Audigy 2 ZS on it as I would now like to see if it has the non-maskable interrupts my SBLive needs for dos sound. Well, I'll have the new board to play with. Proddy Parrot here I come! (I don't know. Maybe I won't bother since I have better soundcards and Dosbox.) Another thing weird about the bios optimized defaults is it turns on all that wakeup stuff that is usually disabled on most default bios's. I found out when I breathed (practically, maybe I bumped my desk) and the system booted up by itself. So I went in and disabled all that. I'm not too lazy to push the power button.

Yep, that forum has a wealth of info for this kind of thing. For a long time I used Creative SBLive 5.1 for both dos gaming within Windows Dos Box's and MS-DOS Mode. These are not the new versions with 24-bit audio, but the older one's. More recently I've been using better quality, newer sound solutions. My dos gaming fix is pretty much satisfied by the ongoing improvments in the Dosbox program. To get the latest improvements you'd need to install Dosbox 0.63, then the latest CVS. I use the precompiled official CVS. You'll find links to that in the Dosbox Development forum at VOGONS. I also use the D-Fend GUI for Dosbox so I don't need to fuss with commands. Easier is better! This works on 9x as well as XP. I recently experimented with a SBLive 5.1 Platinum using the old VXD's so I would get that native Windows Soundblaster support. Unlike my old Abit KT7A (go figure, that's the board the SBLive caused problems with but with a few Bios adjustments works perfectly), my newer boards had problems with Windows no longer booting, except in safe mode, with an Error Loading Device IOS, Real Mode Memory Allocation Failed. I think these newer motherboards usurp too much memory for all their features. Even if it would work for awhile, eventually I would get that error. But if you have an older motherboard, the SBLive dos sound is pretty good. Get the EAPCI8M.ECW and put it in your system folder. Rename default.ecw to EAPCI2M.ECW and rename EAPCI8M.ECW to default.ecw to get better Ms-Dos mode midi. Dos within Windows uses SoundFonts, I think. Another soundcard that works nearly perfectly within Windows dos box is the HP Riptide Audio/Modem combo card. The MS-DOS Mode sound is not dependable with this card (crashes, distortion), but within Windows it's great. You need more than just the card. You also need a seperate riser card for the mike, line-in, line-out ports. The card has an amplified line-out on the card itself (quite nice for headphones), but you need the riser for the others. The older card with the HCF modem is better than the newer HSF version. XPSP1 and higher has the driver. But it stinks on XP as the sound skips while on the net and the Midi Synth is not installed. Nice Wavetable synth with additional Yamaha OPL2/3 for older stuff. No EAX or bass/treble controls (use QSound QMaxII and, on XP, either WinGroove or Yamaha S-YXG50 4.0.) http://www.allensmith.net/HP/Riptide.htm has all the driver info for 9x. I think ebay would be one of the few sources for either of these at this point. Really, the best these days is a modern card and using Dosbox. Too much fuss to get the old stuff working on original hardware. And new soundcards are, well, better for everything else.

It (the Mozart program) is just an old (Windows 3.1, Windows 95) encylopedia type thing that has the history of Mozart and other classical music along with some videos and audios of his works. It must attempt to change something that 9x needs but 98SE and XP don't seem to be affected by it. The only time I had the problem was when installing it to Windows Me without statemgr loaded. It's actually been a long time since I've installed the set (comes with other of the same types of classical music stuff). I used it more when I was going for my music degree and was heavily into learning and enjoying stuff about the history of music. That one program was just an example of why the System Health stuff in Windows Me can be helpful. Whether the 9x resourse limitations make using it a memory hog is another story. I can certainly understand why folks would be upset when Windows Me will suddenly turn on one of these things while they are gaming and freeze their game or something! Possibly it's a case where the idea is nice, but 9x has a problem smoothly implementing it. I just like the idea of my system files being protected, rather than the OS allowing any changes to dll's, etc whenever an installer wants to. I haven't used an installation monitor since experimenting long, long ago with stuff like Norton CleanSweep and McAfee Uninstaller. I saw that these kinds of programs would sometimes interfere with installers and even other Windows programs if they were allowed to run in the background so I pretty quickly stopped using them. Perhaps what you're talking about is less intrusive than those old programs were. Still, I usually install a boatload of programs on a system I'll be using for a long time. I might find it a nuisance to need to be comparing files every time I installed something. That's why I find it useful to have something like SFP built in to the OS so it can keep an eye on things automatically. I used to speculate whether it might be possible to somehow bring it from Windows Me to Windows 98SE, until I noticed that so many people hated it so much they were disabling it on Windows Me!

I was browsing the windowsbbs.com boards yesterday and noticed a post about the Service Pack. A moderator there dissed the pack when replying to the question of whether it was safe or recommended to use it. All were in agreement about how dangerous it was to use this thing, and how wonderful Microsoft Windows Update was in providing what is needed to update 98SE. The kind of work put into the Service Pack and all the other testing, files, and support provided by folks here could not go undefended. So I added my 2 cents, and gave them my order of install so someone there wouldn't go and run it on an already borked 98SE system and then say,"see, it messed up my system." If anyone wants to jump on the bandwagon http://www.windowsbbs.com/showthread.php?t=52183 Heh, the guy mentioned that he might upgrade to XP since his hardware could handle it, so I said that I upgraded to 98SE from XP since my hardware could handle it!

I suggest searching, and if not finding what you need, posting to vogons.zetafleet.com. They're the experts at old gaming on old or new systems. I haven't noticed a lot of that kind of stuff here.

I mostly use Maxtor HD's so I do need that IDE filter for the 133 speed. Interesting about your AGP working. I've got 3 different ATI cards (9550, 9600XT, x850Pro) and none of them turn on AGP if using the newer Via AGP drivers on 98SE. As long as the driver is listed in device manager as the Via AGP, the details button in your ATI Control Panel shows current speed as 8X (or, whatever your card gives you based on your bios or smartgart settings), and AGP Textures are showing as enabled in DXDIAG then your fine. Now, with the newer Catalyst 6.2 for 9x, you also get Smartgart. This is because the ATI Setup program now works on the x850 cards. So you can see the basic settings from the Smartgart tab in the ATI Control Panel, or the full settings by running smartgart from the Start, Run. It'll show all the settings and what Smartgart has them set to. AGP and PCI Reads and Writes are all enabled on mine, and the speed is 8X.

Yes, I know there are newer. But the last AGP driver that works on my motherboards on 9x is the one on 4.43. As I said, I only use the AGP driver from that. If I use the whole 4.43 package, I don't get the rest of the drivers as the 4.43 apparently doesn't recognize my boards. I just use the latest Via Hyperion Pro that has the IDE filter (5.02a) for 9x. 5.07 leaves this out as XP doesn't need it. The board's cd comes with 4.53. Can't use the AGP from it on 9x. At least, if I want working AGP. Not too much of a problem after having figured out which ones to use. Just one manual update is needed, using device manager to update the AGP to what the 4.43 installed from the Microsoft PCI to PCI driver. Sometimes on reboot after the AGP Via setup I need to direct the hardware wizard to the via agp inf or the vxd file, but it's simple to browse around for it. Little by little the native 9x support on newer drivers requires some more user work to get them working right. The stuff is there, but all these installers are really designed and tested now on XP systems. At least we can still get it all working. Not for the meek user who just wants to push the power button and have stuff work automatically anymore! Once set up though, 9x still can work great.

The DriverCleanerPro creator, Spike, emailed me with the reason for the setup freeze and the DISPLAY listing. The program removes the Display entry in the registry, which should not be done on 9x. REGEDIT4 [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\Class\Display] @="Display adapters" "Installer"="SetupX.DLL, Display_ClassInstaller" "Icon"="-1" "EnumDriverStack"="enumfile.dll,EnumDisplayDriverStack" "Link"="{4d36e968-e325-lice-bfck-08002be10318}" This fix, taken from another 98SE machine by Spike, puts the proper stuff back into the registry. That DISPLAY catagory in device manager now reads Display adapters. I suspect that the rest of the entry will fix the ATI driver setup freezing near the end. Spike says he will fix this removal in the next version of DriverCleanerPro.

That's right. The last one using the Quicktime 6.5.2 base. The newer ones use Quicktime 7 as a base, which is not 9x compatible. That's my point.

Oh I see. So after rebooting it's back to normal. Okay then! Still, it would be interesting to read the differing opinions about this. I would say that having these processes enabled on the computers built back when Windows Me was released probably taxed the system. But on computers built in the last couple of years? It probably slows things down a bit, but at tolerable levels. I remember heavy gamers complaining about some of this stuff coming on while they were playing their games and causing pauses, delays, freezes, etc. I can see where an "off" switch would be a good idea for the times when you'll be battling out on the internet with other gamers. Is just turning off System Restore in the system properties good enough, or does part of the System Health stuff suddenly turn on and slow up things anyway? With all the memory and processor speeds we have today, perhaps just using the same memory optimizations the Gape uses in the Service Pack and setting a defined swap file min and max would help. When using older software, I usually felt safer when installing them while using Windows Me because SFP was there to put the newer files back. I'm just not sure whether this works quite as well as the Windows XP version of it. I remember checking the folder and log once in awhile and noticing updates being replaced by older original Windows Me versions of things. So I never knew whether something like WMP, for example, was really updated. The version in the software could report the updated version, but the actual files were hijacked by SFP! So, SFP would be a great thing if we could really trust it to judge properly what it should let get replaced. Heck, I'm not even sure if XP decides correctly all the time.

Yes, but isn't System File Protection possibly the only improvement that Windows Me has over 98SE? I would think that's the one thing I wouldn't want turned off, except for installing Service Packs and unnofficial updates. For example, I have the old Topics Complete Classical Music cd set. If I install Mozart (a cd program with the history of Mozart with music and stuff) on Windows Me with State Mgr not loaded, Windows Me is destroyed. (Will not start Windows again, ever. Must format.) I've never been able to figure out what the Mozart installation changes that causes this. 98SE doesn't suffer from this. It suggests changes to AutoExec.bat, but it lets you not make those changes so the problem is not there. But if I have the normal full StateMgr running, Windows Me is not adversly effected by anything Mozart installs so there is no problem. I can see turning off System Restore and SFP for the service pack install, but then reinstating it following its use. Just a suggestion, but I hope this option to reinstate the default behavior is included in some future version of a Windows Me service pack. When I use Windows Me, I usually have followed MDGx's advice to use CoolKill to turn off SFP and also make sure I disable System Restore when installing some of the unnofficial updates as it is the only way to get them installed. But I then restart System Restore and generally have it active when using the operating system.

Good news. Now we won't have those delays. By the way, it wasn't just video drivers that suffered from this. Anytime the driver install process was invoked these problems occured. It was freezing in between each step, with the mouse staying in that hourglass form until the next step, etc. With the 98SE DEVMGR32.DLL, the problem is gone. I just emailed my DriverCleaner log files to Spike so he might get to the bottom of the Display Adapter catagory and drivers dissappearing. This probably is what caused the ATI setup program to freeze Windows, as stuff that it's supposed to find no longer exists. Nice that it works anyway.

98SE has its benefits over Windows Me. And anything less buggier caused by newer system files in the later released Windows Me are acquired by using 98SE2ME on a 98SE system. The System Restore in Windows Me and the other associated System Health processes are very buggy and memory hoggy. Often when you need System Restore to work, it will fail and where 98SE might be able to recover, the Windows Me system will be unrecoverable after a failed System Restore and you need to format and start over. 98SE has a similar feature where you can restore the registry and the major system files by the use of scanreg /restore from an Ms-Dos command prompt. The OS automatically backs up the registry on the first boot of the calender day and holds 5 backups for you to choose from when using scanreg /restore. System Restore also stores virus infected files and your virus scanner cannot remove them. You must turn off System Restore and thereby delete the old restore points to remove the infection. So, many use a program called System Restore Remover Pro to purge Windows Me of probably the only useful addition it made to the 9x series. Unfortunately, the bugs weren't fixed until the Windows XP version of System Restore. Many Windows Me users use one of the available hacks to get back the ability to boot to Ms-Dos Mode. Windows 98SE is more easily updated as it doesn't stop you from doing so by Windows Me's System File Protection. SFP is a good thing in Windows XP, but Windows Me needs so many fixes that SFP is actually a nuisance when trying to figure out how to replace a newer signed system file with a bug fixed non-signed older version. So, 98SE2ME is better because you can get the viable fixes of Windows Me without the headaches of it.

Here's what I just posted in the DriverHeaven Tools forum regarding DriverCleaner - Following using DriverCleanerPro4, 98SE no longer has any Display Adapters to install among all the listed drivers in the AddNewHardwareWizard. I discovered that following an uninstall of my ATI Radeon x850Pro driver. Upon reboot to normal mode after the safe mode DriverCleaner use, Windows reports that the drivers controlling my display adapters are not working correctly. Checking device manager, there is no more Display Adapter catagory nor any monitors installed. If I open Display Properties advanced, my card is listed as Unknown Device on Unknown Monitor. If I try to change the driver there, there is no catagory "Display Adapters" to select the Standard PCI Display Adapter (VGA) from. These sort of devices are not listed under any other catagory either. The fix was to run ATI's setup of the Catalyst 6.2, which freezes just before the screen asking for a restart. I have to reset the computer, then upon Windows startup ALMOST everything is back to normal. The weird thing left is that the catagory "Display Adapters" in device manager still does not exist. It is instead now called simply "DISPLAY." The ATI card drivers are correctly listed under this new catagory. Everything, including the WDM's and the fresh install of the ATI MMC 9.13 works perfectly. It's just that I don't think Windows has any other display adapters anymore except for what ATI's setup installs in its new "DISPLAY" catagory. I think something in DriverCleaner is removing what it shouldn't. So, let's see if Spike (DriverCleaner maker) can come up with something.

After all the experimenting the file that slows everything down is the first one, the DEVMGR32.DLL. I now have that file in the 98SE version, and the rest in the Windows Me version and detection and installation go at the normal speeds without freezing or waiting. I did all the testing by just removing the monitors and display adapters from device manager and rebooting. I didn't go through the whole ATI install/uninstall routine. Now, to fix things proper after the testing I did need to uninstall all ATI stuff, reboot to safe mode, run drivercleaner, boot up and install ATI. This is because a device manager installation of ATI drivers does not install Smartgart (never has). So, with ATI MMC and all this whole thing took the whole afternoon! But, that's it. You can just leave DEVMGR32.DLL out of 98SE2ME. The other files didn't seem to have any effect one way or the other. To expound on remaining weirdness, after ATI's official uninstall it leaves Standard Graphics Adapter (VGA) and Standard Graphics Adapter (for the secondary display) under Display Properties. Now, those should be Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) and Standard PCI Graphics Adapter. In the past, with my older ATI cards like the 9600XT and prior to that the 7500, to set this properly I would update the drivers to those before rebooting after the ATI uninstall. So I tried that this time. Windows SAYS it installed the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA), etc, but it doesn't change what is displayed. It still reads Standard Graphics Adapter (VGA), etc. Upon rebooting to safe mode and running DriverCleaner the same listings exist. BUT, after restarting to normal Windows an error message states my adapter isn't working properly and then the display properties appears. There is nothing listed, no Display Adapters heading, nothing there for the monitors, nothing at all regarding my videocard in device manager. Even in Safe Mode! If I reboot there it's just nothing listed. There is no way to fix this. Interestingly, the display device listed in System.ini is now the Radeon x850 Series rather than the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) that had been there before the ATI uninstall. In normal Windows the display properties advanced lists an unknown device on an unknown monitor. Attempting to change the unknown device, there is no heading for Display Adapters among the hardware listings. They do not exist under any of the other heading either. Running the ATI Catalyst 6.2 setup program, and reseting my computer after it freezes just before ending fixes everything. Or, at least it did this the first time (about a week ago when I updated from the Catalyst 5.9 to the new 6.2). This time the heading in device manager for my display adapters simply reads DISPLAY. And, this time it left the System.ini display listing as Radeon x850 Series. So, I have nothing called Display Adapters in device manager, just DISPLAY, under which all the proper ATI adapters are correctly installed. And, the reinstall of ATI MMC went fine and everything works as before. Changing DEVMGR32.DLL back to the 98SE version worked, as there is now no delay between each step of the hardware detection and driver install process. But there are issues, almost certainly not related to 98SE2ME, regarding this particular videocard and the ATI driver setup. Perhaps DriverCleaner was overzealous in removing some stuff from Windows. Something is not right, with that DISPLAY heading there now and also not being able to install any display adapters without the ATI setup program. For your information, when Windows installs with this card it does set up with the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) and the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter. But after uninstalling the ATI drivers and using DriverCleaner, there is no way to use the display without the ATI driver. All the display adapters are non-existant! Strange stuff, eh? All working now, except for that weird "DISPLAY" catagory instead of "Display Adapters."