sunryze
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I see on many, many forums, such as r/windows, the Microsoft discord and even the Linus Tech Tips forums where people mention using 7 or so nowadays and people lose their minds, breaking out in cyber arguments about if its a good or bad idea to keep using them. So I have a question.
Why do so many people just have problems about older operating systems? As well as that, how many real-people would actually say if 7 or 10 is better? Most of my family says 7 is a lot better. Even a lot of my friends say 7 is better than 10.
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Windows 10 is probably staying for a lot longer than that. I hope Linux becomes a better alternative by then, but knowing how Linux came around in the desktop OS world after Windows already monopolized the hell outta the OS world, I wouldn't count on it.
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Always thought this day was long from now. Sad to see functions now not existing in 7
Anyway, 8.1 is NT 6.3 so I wouldn't expect them to be that hard to backport, but could pose challenges with NT 6.2 not having it.1 -
The start menu was changed in Build 19042 to be more fluent-like by removing icon borders and making the icon borders on the tiles theme-aware. If you don't want this feature, you have to go back to 19041 or older. (20H2 changed the start menu)
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8 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
2012 r2 is almost same as 2012 expect it got better UI (bit less metrofied). It would fine to your use. I recommend atleast server 2012 r2 standard not essential or web edition to have hyper v and more ram support. If you want you can do in place upgrade on retail version of windows server. I upgraded one server from 2008 r2 to 2012 r2 without reinstalling all
2008 R2 is in ESU and uses the older version of server manager, and 2016 has such a slow update system. 2012 R2 is just a minor update to 2012 so I will be going with 2012 R2 Datacenter Core.
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12 hours ago, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
Highly depends on usage and hw. I used server 2008 r2 on newer servers (sandy bridge and newer) and server 2003 on older (771 xenon). 2012 would be fine
for stability and compatibilty use any offically supported ones. Mostly raid controller is why needed. Stock drivers never worked well on array
if you plan use windows server to virtualisation you need atleast windows server standard. Also make sure your server version supports all of processor cores and memory on system. Standard version of 2008 r2 supports up to 32 GB of ram and 4 physical cpu sockets while server datacentre/enterprise edition supports 2tb ram, 8 physical sockets (enterprise) and 64 (datacentre). For server 2012 r2 both standard and data centre do 4tb of ram and 64 physical cpu sockets. Different is on licencing features. Just make sure edition you are installing can utilise ram and cpu sockets
Dell says this supports 2008 R2, 2012, 2012 R2 and 2016. I'd rather not use 2008 R2 or 2012 (even though I like them) and 2016 has a very slow update systen, so 2012 R2 is basically my only option, or I can figure out if 2019 runs fine on it when I get it.
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The R720 I'm getting has drivers on Dell's site for 2008, 2008 R2, 2012, 2012 R2, and 2016.
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I recently purchased a Dell PowerEdge R720 and I'm wondering what people would use on it. I would happily use Proxmox, but because of some problems with the drives i'm using and how they are setup, Windows Server would be an easier option. What would you use? I'm considering 2019, but wondering if 2012 R2 would be a better option.
What are your preferred versions of Windows Server for a Sandy Bridge-era Intel system?
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An interesting thing that I learned is that Microsoft didn't remove the QA team, they moved it. They now rely on AI to find and report the bugs. In all the cases they test, they never upgrade the testing containers. This is why 1809 never had that file deletion bug fixed in the betas; because the bots never found it. Even when it existed in the feedback hub, they never look there. The insider program is a joke. You aren't helping shape Windows, you are just making it harder on yourself on an already hard operating system.
AI can work if you shape it enough, but it will never be able to replace human intelligence.
Anyway, 21H2 development hasn't changed much. In my opinion now I am hopeful, but also a little upset because they aren't focusing on what Windows was good at. Windows 7 and such worked well because it was simple. All Sun Valley may be doing now is just overcomplicating it more. We had hope for when 10 came out that it would fix the "disaster" that 8.1 was. I use quotes on that because 8.0 really ruined the reputation. 8.1 is awesome.
What recently came to realization is how much MSFT is changing in only half a year of development. That itself is a little worrying.
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I use a domain, so I have it so MS accounts aren't required to install store apps. Really nice for those apps that I like. Also, I have figured out how MS accounts work. They do create local usernames, but it is your email used. For example, you signed in with "example@gmail.com". If you were remoting in or needing to find your local user, the user folder is usually the first 5 letters of your email "examp" and the username Windows knows is the full email "example@gmail.com" it makes it seem like its signing into gmail as a domain server, but the times I do it does not.
I agree that local accounts are easier to handle with MS accounts used for UWP apps strictly. Local accounts are miles ahead of MS accounts.
You can sign in automatically, but there are some registry entries you need to set to specify autologon passwords, and sometimes it doesn't even work.
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Hm. After googling it shows that it is a Windows Server 2022 Insider build. Could be why it says 21H2, unless sun valley isnt coming out with 21H2....
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On 3/12/2021 at 7:29 PM, ceo54 said:
I have long held this belief that compression is not a good idea,
Compression is actually used a lot, and if your processor is powerful enough and the software using the compression is optimized enough, you won't really notice a difference. Modern smartphones nowadays are encrypted out of the box, which would have a larger effect on performance than compression. The more its compressed, the longer it will take to access those files.
On 3/12/2021 at 7:29 PM, ceo54 said:the less disk space it takes, the faster it will perform. What's your take on this ?
Not really. The disk space doesn't really have any connectable dots to speed of the system. It more is what services have to load, drivers that have to wait for their device to respond, waiting for network link and other timeouts such as clearing pagefile for security purposes, and also just waiting for the IO of the drive, as well as if it is a solid-state or a mechanical drive. What you can do to make the system perform faster is to remove components that don't matter (I don't use ntlite, I use WinReducerEx, gives me more options) and/or disabling / removing unused drivers and services. The biggest slowdown 10 has though is that most of the UI elements are UWP now (Start, context menus, volume, network and clock) so you would have to switch them over to the classic versions, but as time goes on this will be less "able".
The thing that everyone should know that I do realize is that UWP is definitely here to stay, as well as telemetry and less control of the user, and there really isn't much we can do about it. What is nice is that Linux as the days go by is becoming a more viable option, but even then still has a long way to go, even if it does start making a dent in the desktop consumer marketshare. Linux is mainly known for its server enterprise marketshare because of how versatile it is, as well as IoT devices.
The thing I really hate to admit and what people here may get upset about is that as much as I love older windows such as 2K, XP, Vista, 7, 8.1, they are over time slowly fading away. I'm not sure if 2000 would be usable in 2030 or 2040. Hardware manufacturers are learning how to drop operating systems and with the introduction of DCH 10 drivers, it makes it even harder to port drivers. At that point you would have to completely write your own drivers. You can't really run MS-DOS 2.0 comfortably on an 11th gen Intel desktop, can you.
I have no hate towards older operating systems, I love them more than ever. But what I do know myself is that it will physically become impossible one day. We are already seeing this with modern desktops and laptops which can't run anything older than 10. Then, you could just say to use older hardware. That still has time, but time that is running out fast.
Hardware breaks. Over time components stop working. Eventually, the first components to fail will most likely be capacitors and transistors, which with them failing could destroy other components, especially if the failure was in the power supply. You can repair them and keep it going, but eventually the processors and graphics cards may start failing.
Older hardware will become more rare as the years go by as more of them break. You don't see as many 1920s cars around on the road anymore because they are being held in garages to keep in good condition because they are vulnerable due to lack of easy-to-find replacement parts. As I said, I am not against older hardware, but if I can predict the amount of time until people will legitimately be forced to use Linux or Windows 10, I would put it at 10-20 years. Windows 10 is here to stay, and we will eventually in a decade or two have to leave what we love.
On 3/12/2021 at 7:50 PM, ceo54 said:21H2 Insider builds are out
That should be Server 2022 Insider. This build would of been released last year. The latest insider is 21332.
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I came across the built-in email client and I was wondering if it still works. I entered all my info in and the error I get right now is "-ERR malformed command blah blah" I have SSL enabled and all the info entered is correct. Is this client just too old to use?
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And yes, I want to like 10 because a lot of people use it, but I just can't with where it is. I am just hoping that 21H2 brings me back. 21H1 is an enablement package; no big features being added.
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I'll try this out today.
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On 3/11/2021 at 3:53 PM, ceo54 said:
I'm thinking if all the garbage is still there, the S mode won't do any good. The lite version is not lite by any means unless it occupies less and less HDD space, that's how it boots fast and runs fast. Better to employ NTLite than to depend on Microsoft for anything these days.
Can run on my old XP era laptop from 2006 without lag.
I want to like 10 but I just can't. The horrendous updates, general design choices and just things that don't make sense push me away. My PC can't even stay asleep on 10.
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Well, S mode still exists in 10 but its no longer a special edition. It's a switch you can choose when making a WIM. Some manufacturers put Windows 10 in S Mode on the most odd hardware. Brother got a new laptop recently with a Ryzen 5 3450U. Came in S mode, but luckily MSFT lets you upgrade it to Home for free. Usually they are called "Windows 10 Home in S mode". Imagine it being named "Windows 10 Pro for Workstations in S mode". What's next? everything just has a "Pro" slapped on top of it. iPhone 12 Pro Max, Google Pixel 4 5G, Remember when names were simple? Nexus 5. Google Pixel. iPhone 4S. Just, agh.
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1 minute ago, ceo54 said:
And BTW, where is the promised Windows 10 lite version for low end PC's ?? or was it just sugar promise to get people hooked to Windows 10 ? Amazing what greed can transform you into.
S mode. We expected too much.
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Well I installed 2K to the HDD via passthrough to a VM on my desktop. Now it just freezes when the bar is at 100% starting windows 2000. I think it is crashing due to an ACPI error but not showing the bluescreen.
Also, I found out this HDD has 1 bad sector now from the triple boot of 2000 (trying to get working), XP and Vista.
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Just now, Mr.Scienceman2000 said:
When hardware allowed they did all type of cool things with it like 3d, animations etc. Later they dumped it all out to flat design. I remember my phone having animated menu items when highlighted.
I remember back when iOS jailbreaking allowed people to do cool swiping animations. I remember when android also had the futuristic tron style UI too. Same with cool animations on Windows 7. But, companies now say that oversimplifying makes it "better for the eyes" which is actually them just making the logos remember simpler so people remember them faster. It isn't for protecting eyes or reducing resources. Its so they can yell over every other company.
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6 hours ago, Jaguarek62 said:
Also if you play any modern game it is the only option. Pubg, COD, Rocket league, cyberpunk heck even GTA V requires at least 360.xx cause the older ones caused black stripes on characters. Having the latest one is necessary for playing modern titles
I'll try out a driver from 2016 from when my card came out. Might act better, and I will check if my games comply.
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The farthest back that I can remember is December 25, 2012. I was really young and I remember when we got our first family PC. Custom parts on the table and a Rosewill case, with a fresh copy of Windows 7 Ultimate. We were upgrading from our old Sony Vaio desktop which had a Pentium 4, 2GB of RAM and a 250GB HDD, running Windows XP Home. The new PC was a AMD Phenom 1055T, 8GB of ram, and a 500GB WD Blue which is now in my NAS. My first laptop was a Dell Inspiron from 2007 which came with Vista, but eventually made its way onto Lubuntu 12.04 LTS.
I then had a HP Pavilion G7. AMD A8-4500M and 6GB of ram running Windows 8. I didn't mind it, but it worked fine.
in 2017 I upgraded my CPU to an FX 8350 and my laptop then moved to a Toshiba Satellite R945, i5 3210M and 8GB of ram, running Windows 7. At this time I was on 10 for the most part.
2019 my PC broke and then I upgraded to an i5 8400, 16GB of ram and Windows 10 1809, plus a 250GB NVME SSD. Later last year I upgraded to an i7 9700K.
The dumbing down of computers, software and hardware is not JUST Microsoft. It's a trend that I don't understand. It removes unique parts of things and everything just looks the same. Back in the mid to late 2000s, you had console menu music like the PS2, Gamecube, Wii and even the original Xbox. You had the Wii shop music, the DS alarm feature. It got even better in the early 2010s with the 3DS eShop and the PS4 which had menu music. The Xbox One though was our first look at the decline of technology.
Techology was at its peak in the late 2000s. Windows Vista and 7 made huge changes to Windows. But then in 2015 Windows 10 came around and that was our look at oversimplification. Logos started going flat, design started losing its transparency. macOS went flat, Ubuntu went flat. We lost startup sounds and in 2017, we lost the Nintendo charm. The switch had no eshop music, no menu music, no fun text or easter eggs.
I wish technology was like how it was back then, when it had charm and everything was unique. Now everything just feels the same. W10 1803 vs W10 2004, no difference in the UI. Just some icons are different and some defaults have changed.
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So I saw a post here about "What are you listening to?" which was about music. I decided to make one of the similar topic, but about TV shows / movies. So, what have you been watching lately?
I'm currently watching through Rick and Morty for the first time. Funniest thing I have seen.
I know there is a topic of this from 2012, but considering how old it is, better off to start off a new one I guess.
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Why do so many people say staying on older versions of Windows is stupid?
in General Discussion
Posted
I actually have. From passmark scores that I did on 7, 8.1, and 10 2004:
7 was the best for CPU, 2nd best for RAM usage, worst for disk usage, and 2nd for graphics.
8.1 was the best for graphics, 2nd best for CPU, and best for RAM usage. 8.1 had the best overall score.
10 was the worst in pretty much everything else. Only thing that can redeem itself is the better program compatibility.
In my case, the only thing that 10 gives me is that running a billion windows open at once runs laggy on 7 with Aero transparency enabled. Aero was a little bit of a hog even though it looked really nice. Probably the problems with 8 and newer is that Microsoft stopped caring about it, and just started piling more stuff onto it. Thats why I call it, Inconsistency Hell. Sad to see that the days of consistency are numbered now.
Use whatever works for you. I don't care if you use MS-DOS, Me or Vista. I use 7 and 10 because those are the two that i'm used to.