Bruninho

It's there, yet SeaMonkey 2.6.1 still shows the wrong font for the browser user interface & dialogs. I also have installed unicows. @siria, I tried again with KernelEx 4.5.2 without updates. Opera 12.02 I can see https google.com. But Opera UI has some strange quirks - the dropdown for the address bar shows a black border instead of a box shadow? And I still cannot log in to vogons forums since it requires some missing cipher suites. These ciphers does exist in a newer Retrozilla 2.2 from roytam1 and also the NSS updates for Netscape 9.0.0.6, also from roytam1, both can let me log in there and also on msfn forums. I have even enabled TLS 1.2 from Opera settings. SeaMonkey 2.6.1 still crashes whenever I try to load any https sites - first one I tried was google.com and it crashed. I tried with and without the NSS files provided above for CometBird 9 since both browsers are based on Fx9. No luck. I left Opera 12.02 installed for now until the next moment I have free time to try new things.

I created a new snapshot with KernelEx 4.5.2, so the VM has now 3 snapshots: - 1st: Windows 98 fresh install with all drivers & vmware tools. No patches or software installed. - 2nd: KernelEx 4.5.2 installed with no updates. - 3rd: KernelEx with the updates. Now I can try or test something and roll back when I want. I will now proceed to do 1 or 2 test with Opera & SeaMonkey before I go to bed now... again its too late. Cya!

Well I do not like XP and higher versions. I prefer 98 or 2000. I used 2000 a lot years ago before moving to XP (a move which I regret so much). So I did three VMs: - MSDOS 6.22 & Win 3.11 for old games - Win 98SE as a test for now - Win 2000 Professional with the games I played most in the past, and it’s working very well: FIFA 99, GP4, Need For Speed, Flight Simulator 98, Full Throttle... Even browsing works 100% with 2nd latest SeaMonkey. I will try again with your Opera trick when I get time to redo things from a fresh Win98 snapshot I saved after OS install & updates. Thanks God I did save it... I still cannot see where is USP10, sorry for my ignorance about that one in particular. I will try to see these things this night. Good morning, people!

Just tried KM74 Goanna and it is still unreliable and requires JS disabled. Browser UI is messed up big time. Reverted back to default KernelEx 4.5.2. Tried both SeaMonkey versions again. I'm now confused. Same result as with an updated KernelEx. Strange... It was never working ? What? Confused. Also tried Fx9, fail. So, AFAIK we are stuck with Opera 12.02, RetroZilla 2.2 and a Netscape 9.0.0.6 with updated NSS files from Roytam1. None of them can render most sites properly or play YouTube videos. *sighs* EDIT: I still have snapshots. I can go back to the 1st snapshot right after installing and updating Win98. And redo the steps to see what I did wrong. But that’s a thing for another night. Its 1:33 AM here. Good night!

Here's what I have tested: KernelEx 4.5.2, no updates - Both SeaMonkey 2.6.1 and 2.7.2 loads and work fine and go to the default page on load, with the NSS updates provided in this topic. 2.6.1 is based on Fx9, and 2.72 on Fx10. I think I could load msfn forums and other forums such as vogons. Now, KernelEx with the updates provided by the blog I mentioned before - Both SeaMonkey versions load and go to the default page (seamonkey's project page), but even with the very same NSS updates it can no longer connect to any HTTPS sites. Whenever I try to load google.com the browser immediately crashes. I tried going to cnn's light version for low bandwidth users, and it loaded. This link is not a https site. Something in the kernelex update broke it. I can try KM Goanna 74 and return to you in a few minutes. But I suspect that it will fail. Meanwhile, I tried Opera 12.02, works better but no youtube and I cannot load vogons forums because some cipher suite is missing. Next I might go back to KernelEx 4.5.2 and try again to see if my tests are correct.

I need to figure out how to use Dependency Walker and understand its functions. As for the browser, yes it's https pages that are crashing the browser. I remember that when I managed to make it work, I had added some NSS files by roytam1 for Fx10 (since SeaMonkey 2.7.2 is based on it). Now it just doesn't work anymore. I believe I was probably using KernelEx without updates...

@Wunderbar98: SeaMonkey just released the latest 2.53 version, which ditches support for XP. I might try it out later with my Windows 2000/BWC VM to see how far it can go. As of now, the best option for Windows 2000 + BWC still is SM 2.49.5, rock solid and with YouTube working last time I checked.

Thanks! I will check your instructions this week when I have a free time to load the VM again. Last thing I did yesterday was to apply a patch for Win98 to see more than 1GB RAM. SM 2.7.2 btw still had same issues as before (browser UI font wrong, and the small bold bar after some text in some places). I have a friend who was interested after reading how I did my VMs and he wants to "enter the emulation world just for retro gaming" lol. I told him to start with Windows 2000 + BWC since it was the easiest thing for me to set up, and all my games & apps work with it so far. Windows 98 is just a new challenge for me but if it turns out to be really good I can put it ahead of Windows 2000 for my gaming & light web browsing purposes. I have a clean install, meaning that there are no profiles (as far as I know... considering that I have tried two SeaMonkey versions, 2.6.1 and 2.7.2) so far. I don't have any old profile to import. How do I check if they are missing MSVC... files?

I've installed the KEX updates (except the above provided Core.ini) and I went to try again SeaMonkey 2.7.2 with the Fx10 NSS updates. (SM 2.7.2 is based on Fx10). All attempts to load Google.com crashes the browser and hangs the program. I have to CTRL ALT DEL to end the task. When I try to load sites like http://lite.cnn.io, it loads quickly and as expected. Probably SM 2.7.2 can't handle heavy sites... but google.com isn't a heavy site!

Right now I've just installed them all manually and carefully (after a little headache). So far I haven't tested any software yet, but kernelex reports its working OK. No issues when running verify.exe. I'm about to try some software like newer SeaMonkey versions, starting with 2.9. @Goodmaneuver: As for the Core.ini updates posted above, I still haven't tried it. Actually... what should I do? Just drop the Core.ini? Which regedit tweaks should I do after that, if necessary? I currently do not have any software installed with Kernelex, only before Kernelex install, like 7-zip 9.20 and winzip 10.0. Actually, with 7-zip, I dont get the icons for the .7z files. I think I need to associate them. So far I think I am doing well with this VM. Didn't try to browse the internet or play any game yet. Next I will try to install the LAVFilters and VSFilter that were recommended to me in another forum thread by @loblo.

Well, I have created a new Win98 VM, installed and upgraded it as much as I could, and I got KernelEx installed. Now I only need to know the entire route to upgrade KernelEx before actually installing any software. This time I don’t want to spend an entire night trying to figure out the things since it was one of the reasons why I had health issues these last weeks, and I am still recovering from it. Thankfully, I have vacations scheduled for the end of the month.

I'm back from my exams. Still one more to do, though. I'm feeling perfectly fine so far, yet I'm still under treatment for my gastrointestinal problem. Anyway, about Windows 98... I think I will just restart everything and redo the VM from scratch so I can follow each step carefully to do all the things that were mentioned here. I still don't know what I should do though - there is so much information flying here on this forum that sometimes one things says X, other thing says Y. But this time when I finish installing the OS and update all the drivers, I'll do a snapshot so I don't need to reinstall again. EDIT: Created a new VM, installed vmware tools, sb16 drivers, directx9c, USB drivers and checked everything working on device manager, so did a snapshot. Now I have to figure out what next. Probably install KEX and try to find out how to update it properly. There's no easy way out... (Rocky Balboa vibes). EDIT2: Actually I think I forgot to install the unofficial service pack updates first. Will do it now, so if anything goes wrong, I still have a pure snapshot to go back.

I will need to see this with more time this weekend. I have medical exams to do because of an unknown gastrointestinal problem. Currently I am fine. btw it’s not possible to make a .reg file with the changes so we just have to merge? Reproducing all the steps you did to get where you are with your win98 could bring more people (like me) to test and help for more data to improve, for example. Just a guess. I have to go now, long night ahead and I have been missing sleep hours (probably this is part of my problems).

Hi! No websites. It’s the browser UI fonts - different from the system UI and Some menu options have a small bold black vertical bar at the end of the texts. I will provide a screenshot when possible. I think that SeaMonkey 2.6.1 (based on Fx 9) does not have this issue, but 2.7.2 (based on Fx 10) does. As for KEX registry settings and Core.ini, as long as you point out what I need to change in them, I will be fine. I am a front-end web designer, I know a thing or two about programming. Hehehe. If this all works out, I can try to test higher SeaMonkey versions. According to their website: The last version for Windows with support for older CPUs not supporting the SSE2 instruction set was SeaMonkey 2.40. The last version with Windows 2000 and Windows XP without SP2 support was SeaMonkey 2.9. The last version supporting Windows XP/Server 2003 and Vista/Server 2008 was SeaMonkey 2.49.5.

Jeeeesus. I'm very confused as to how to update and apply your settings. I'm new in this. EDIT: Alright. I think Microsoft Installer is already there (I can't find the "update" you mentioned though), I think I've got the USP10.DLL from MDGx's website (It was included in another update I think, for RTF?). And PSAPI.dll is already updated. KernelEx is updated to 4.5.2016 according to the verify.exe, although I got it from here which says a different version. Still, SeaMonkey 2.7.2 is showing wrong font family... What am I missing now?

I can't find them. I think I've found LAVFilters but not sure. VSFilter I am struggling to find.

These also work for SeaMonkey versions 2.6.1 and 2.7.2, respectively, because both are based on Firefox 9 and 10. Although, SeaMonkey runs VERY slow after that on Windows 98. Maybe more RAM? I'm testing 2.7.2. I wonder if I could go higher updating KernelEx (currently 4.5.2) - because SeaMonkey now almost renders well a few forums (MSFN, Vogons) but still no Youtube yet and UI menu fonts are messed up the same way it is on K-Meleon. I don't even have the Widevine plugin (while on Windows 2000 and SeaMonkey 2.49.5 I do have). I can smell some progress here... Also, since installing KernelEx, my Windows 98SE vmware machine hangs on shutdown screen (the one before black screen).

I know that the topic is about vanilla Windows 98, but KernelEx was mentioned a few times here so I have to ask... which codec packs should I install - K-lite 6.90 if KernelEx is installed?

Damn! I will have to check it out. But I agree that as long as they provide the source code, it’s perfectly fine. As for SeaMonkey on Windows 98 + KernelEX, it does not support newer SeaMonkey builds even with the KernelEx updates that I know or have found. Apparently it can only go as far as 2.6.1 (current is 2.49.5).

I found an extension for Firefox, edited its install.rdf to allow SeaMonkey to install it. Then I used it to rebrand as Netscape. It worked. Now SeaMonkey looks like Netscape... fun! I did something quick just to see if it works, but later I will do a proper clean rebranding. It requires some icons and images and a few texts that are optional. I will get the Netscape default theme for its icons and Resource Hacker for some texts inside the app. For now I will leave it as it is.

OK, I never wanted a fight, and this is not a fight as far as I can tell, but hey, I can answer your questions fair and square, we are all friends here. I didn't link the article because "it came from a tech site". That site in particular is not one of those which I visit regularly - in fact it came from a search about browser security that I did. I linked because I've read it all, I thought it was well written, had some good points, made sense to me even though for some people it was just meant "to spread fear" or FUD, like you say. And I linked it to explain why I uninstalled from my Windows 2000 VM the browser forks like Pale Moon, New Moon, and sticked with the only well updated and working one - SeaMonkey. Which isn't even my #1 browser choice in other OSes. And most browser forks IMHO are unsecure not only because they are based on very obsolete code, but also because they came from unknown sources. "Who are the people behind these forks?" That's my question. I don't know them. For example, I don't know "Moonchild Productions". I know Microsoft, Google, Opera, Mozilla. For more important things like banking, I trust these. For minor things like "posting on a forum about retro things", I see no problem. And just to throw a little of fun so it does not turn into a heated debate (I never wanted a debate. I just wanted to explain why I did what I did with my choice of browsers on my VMs. Everyone is entitled to use any browser they want for any reason they like, but I wanted to tell my reason and my choice). Remember "How I Met Your Mother" ? Barney Stinson? I'm a huge fan of this series. In a few episodes he always says "New is always better". =P Yes, I can see the contradiction when I talk about Retrozilla - In fact, I was seeing that while I wrote my previous post. I should have predicted that it would be questioned... Yes, you're right, the code is old and unsecure - but it's only one that works well from Windows 9x and below (well, at least from all the browsers that I tried - and I tried many browsers, many versions, lots of nights without sleeping). There's no way to get newer browsers for these versions of Windows so a fork of it and a few updates (newer ciphers, maybe a goanna engine) is the only exception I'd like to see. Like I said, it'd only be used for a few fun things but never for more secure transactions, banking, things like that. About the "wasting time on browser forks for XP and above", I'd like to again point out that it was an opinion not a critic or an insult to them. XP, in my opinion, is still a relevant OS in these days - I've seen many companies here in Brazil still using it, so it is far from being retro IMO. I have to admit that I do not like XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 10 versions, but this is not the reason why I said these things. The reason was because it was still relevant, far from being retro, and still had good working apps & browsers, in spite of what I can think about XP. I mean, my father has an old laptop with XP installed just to run an old software that lets him work on his favorite mappings of his Hayabusa GSX 1300R engine. I told him to install 2000 if he wanted speed or 7 if he wanted an upgrade, but given how old and underpowered that laptop is (the original OS was the laggy Vista), XP was the choice to go for him. The laptop is not used for anything other than that. He could've made a VM on his daily driver 2017 MacBook Pro, but that would be an overkill. He gave an use to a tiny underpowered laptop with XP on it. I mentioned "3 or 4 trusted browsers good enough for XP". Well, for XP, you can always believe in SeaMonkey (2.49.5 is the lastest and last version supporting XP now), Firefox ESR versions, Chrome, Opera, while IE is out of this game, finally. Yes, the ones I mentioned before IE, do not support XP anymore (especially Chrome), but their latest working versions for XP still have enough security and can render all the sites properly. I believe more in SeaMonkey than any of these for older Windows for one particular reason - they do not go crazy like Mozilla actually does with their disgusting "Chrome clone" that is Firefox now. Actually, MS did a fine job with their new "clone" (Edge). It uses the engine but they did not deviate from the UI and look of Edge that much. And if we move ahead, Vista is on the same boat as XP, but from Windows 7 onwards, you have newest Edge Chromium, Firefox, Opera, Chrome versions working flawlessly. So why we have to develop more browser forks for XP when we already have official (older, I know) versions of Firefox, Chrome, Opera working so well in XP? I want to know why we need Serpent, Basilisk, Pale Moon, New Moon, for XP? We have near zero options in Windows 2000 (SeaMonkey 2.49.5 has a perfect score there with BWC installed), complete zero from Windows 9x and below. The real challenge is there, not in XP. I mean, hey, everybody does like a challenge, right? I don't expect my post to "magically" bring more effort to this direction, but that's just my opinion on this subject. Since I've made my opinion clear, I'd like to end this and go back to the original subject (Windows 98 in 2020), because I can see that me and LoneCrusader will keep disagreeing on that. So let's just agree that we disagree, shake our hands and move on.

Oh, that’s fine. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion, I have mine, you have yours. I never wanted to make fun of someone else’s opinion. Security is important. But actually, when they refer to the versions of Firefox these forked browsers are based in, they’re not wrong at all. My VMs do not contain personal data, except for a few retro community forums passwords which are very different from my more important stuff on macOS. Safari offers to generate a custom password and I use them for these forums. My Windows 2000 VM isn’t my daily OS, just something I built for retro gaming. I didn’t want to spread FUD or whatever you call it - I just exposed what I think about this and wanted to express that I’d like to see more from Retrozilla. I believe people are wasting time with several forks of Firefox for XP and above (Serpent, Basilisk...) when there are at least 3 or 4 main well known browsers ready, working and updated perfectly for security issues on these Operating Systems. The real challenge is on Windows 3.x and especially 95 and 98, which is one of the things that were discussed here. For example, why not resurrect and update Netscape while there is the source code available for it?

I don’t know about Windows 98, but for Windows 2000 I’ve made the choice to go with SeaMonkey 2.94.5 as my main browser. I ditched New Moon. SM is based on Firefox 52.9 ESR, the newest Firefox possible to run there with a better UI. Of all the browsers I tried, it did the most complete job. I am yet to try Firefox 52.9 ESR - but I have a feeling that it won’t let me use classic Netscape theme so hence why I went for SM. Now, for Windows 98... if only KernelEx were upgraded enough to let us use latest SeaMonkey, then it would be a viable candidate. I have much respect for the great job Roytam1 has done with his browser builds, especially Retrozilla, but I’ve felt that they weren’t enough for me. The reason why I went with SeaMonkey only: https://www.howtogeek.com/335712/update-why-you-shouldnt-use-waterfox-pale-moon-or-basilisk/ (this post even has a link for why you shouldn’t use Chromium forks - although Edge now is a Chromium fork as well, it comes from MS, more trustworthy than smaller groups of unknown developers). Still, I feel safer with Safari/new Edge on iOS and macOS, SM on older Windows and new Edge on Windows 10. On Win 3.x I’m stuck with IE5. My suggestion would be to put more focus on Retrozilla development, since it is based on Firefox 2.0.0.20 (from 2008) and even works on Windows 95, although rendering is pretty bad for most sites it is already awesome with TLS1.2 support. Just for the nostalgia, I have installed Netscape 9.0.0.6, which was my choice in 90s, and it rendered almost identical to Retrozilla except it didn’t have some ciphers that were needed and no Youtube. To sum up, how I see it: before Win 2000 (Retrozilla), from Win 2000 to Vista (SeaMonkey), from Win 7 onwards (any choice you want, as long as it comes from trusted developers - Chrome, Firefox, Edge, Opera). For Win 3.x, forget it. I have zero hopes of seeing something working there. There is even Firefox 3.6.x backported for NT 3.51, but I wouldn’t expect it to go further unless someone updates the Win32 api for it.

Now, if only I could kinda "rebrand" one of my two browsers to look a lot more like Netscape (change the icons and the app window title name). I know I can change the icons with Resource Hacker. But I have no clue for the app name on window title bar.

Ahhhh the Peugeot 206, my very first car (2001). I hated that car. Not because of the car itself, but because of Peugeot assistance. It was terrible - even my 2009 iMac was more serviceable than this damn car. Hahahahaha