NoelC

Haven't been able to stand the looks of it long enough to use it. But I can try it if you'd like. What web sites take a long time to load? That's just not something that's on my radar. Edit: OK, I did some comparative testing on a fresh VM, installed from a 10130 ISO, and with virtually no other tweaks. I tried a few web pages with the two browsers side by side, timing to the point where the page is fully displayed: This MSFN page: IE: 2.0 seconds, Spartan 3.6 seconds, but 2.2 seconds on a subsequent run.Gamespot.com: Both same, 2.0 seconds. IE refreshed in 1 second, while Spartan took 2.Apple.com: IE 1.2 seconds, Spartan 1.4 secondsMy company's web page: Both same: InstantaneousTechNet forums site: Both same: 3.0 seconds.StackOverflow.com: Both same: 0.6 seconds (almost too short to measure)Google.com: Both same: 0.6 seconds (almost too short to measure)Pandora.com: Both same: 2.6 secondsCorvette-forum.com: Both same: 3.6 seconds Seems to me the timing is more about the sites themselves, not the browser, and I certainly can't see many differences between the two browsers. If anything IE gets the data on the screen a fraction of a second before Project Spartan. FYI, The above were measured in an out-of-box condition. I added the MVPS hosts file and the times all generally dropped. -Noel

Hey Big Muscle, have you considered maybe repackaging things a bit so that a user could choose to replace just the theme atlas? It would I guess be a kind of an improvement to the UxThemeSignatureBypass tools, but also with a bit of what the Aero Glass tools do now. Don't get me wrong, I love Aero Glass, but even a simple theme atlas "redo" (along with your FrameMargin tweak) is night and day better than the "Hoth" theme Windows comes with. A minimal tool that would allow the replacement of just the stock theme atlas could accomplish what we get now with the (failed) DWM hooking operation and a load of an alternate theme atlas. That part of your software seems to work even when the glass stuff is broken due to changes by Microsoft. -Noel

Nah, they'd just exclaim how much better Microsoft made your life. You reminded me... Perhaps I should go over and stir some things up over there... -Noel

Andre, your ongoing unwillingness to discuss the subject of UAC at anything above a level of "daddy knows best" implies you're invested in UAC in some emotional way. Given your responses I'd almost guess that you work[ed] for MS and that it was you who actually implemented UAC. I hope that's not true, because otherwise I have a lot of respect for you. Try to chill and accept that it's just barely possible other people 1) use their systems differently than you do, 2) might require different behavior from it than you do, and 3) might actually know some things about what they're doing too. -Noel

I disagree to some extent that "ya can't change the world". I have provided a lot of feedback to companies and developers through bug reports, beta test results, feature requests, etc. and have seen positive changes as a result. It never hurts to point out what's wrong - or right - with something. Well-reasoned voices do matter, and you never know, if they like your idea you may get software that works a little more to your liking. In the fairy tale, once the child points out the Emperor has no clothes, the deception is done; it's all over. In the real world the other populants, who apparently enjoy acting stupid and being duped by evil companies, beat you up for not following the crowd and for being a "hater". It's fashionable to go along with the Emperor. Crowd mentality rules. Films like "Demolition Man" and "Idiocracy" do a decent job of showing us where that can lead. I understand where you're coming from - an individual can't easily change the BIG things in the world. That doesn't mean you should stop trying. -Noel

Seems to me computers and especially GPUs getting much faster had a lot to do with Vista becoming more reasonable to use over time. The design - except for UAC, which is an abomination - was decent. Frankly it represented a lot of change where it counts. But you're right, Microsoft is positioning themselves to start out with Windows 10 as junkware so they can roll out improvement after improvement just by reinstating features they've deleted. I'll smile on the day they announce that they've listened to all the users and have reinstated Aero Glass and a nice theme. -Noel P.S., Touting Windows Update as a feature is selling promises, nothing more. How many ways can they take advantage of their past reputation to dupe people? If they couldn't do better than Windows 10 such as it is now, how can we expect them to do better through Windows Updates? Do people think all the smart engineers will just come back from vacation and make it right?

Thus showing that even amongst the folks on this forum, where we have been discussing the GWX Windows Update and how to avoid it, even people who consider Windows 10 malware still trusted Microsoft to deliver only goodness with Windows Update into their Windows 7 systems. And to think the article says "With Windows 10, we start delivering on our vision of more personal computing, defined by trust in how we protect and respect your personal information," (emphasis mine). And to think people accused me of having a tin foil hat. My Windows 7 systems are popping up no such icon! -Noel

If you accept that there are 500 million Windows 7 users, and, say, 200 million of them are non-enterprise users (I really have no idea, but the number is large), then hundreds of millions haven't seen a hint of Windows 10 yet. Assuming Microsoft makes few changes to what we've seen so far - and to be honest they can't do MUCH in 2 months, that's hundreds of millions of users who are going to go "What the...?!?" right after the free "upgrade" wipes out their nice, elegant desktop. Should be fun to watch. -Noel

-Noel

I find that comment condescending, Andre. You have a strong opinion about UAC and tech skills but that doesn't automatically make you right and anyone who believes UAC to be an abomination a "dummy". There are others who know what they're doing, who understand exactly what UAC brings to the party, and who understand it is a piss poor implementation of a bad idea. The concept of unconditionally protecting the computer from the computer's owner is fundamentally flawed for those who know exactly what they're doing because it just gets in the way without adding any practical value. And the other crowd - whom you want to label "dummies" - pretty much just clicks through the UAC prompts and gives permission for escalation anyway, making it both irritating AND ineffective at protecting them. There are ongoing nuisances with UAC that no matter how permissive you configure it just come up again and again. Things like "Can't create a shortcut here, do you want to put it on the desktop instead?" after which you can just drag it to where you originally wanted it... Data not really going into a system-wide C:\ProgramData subfolder because of file system virtualization... Not being able to drag and drop between applications not started As Administrator and those that are... Not giant problems, but **** nuisances that get in the way of real work. Did I mention it's a POOR implementation? I don't know about you, but when I walk up to a cliff to admire a scenic view, I don't require a fence / guard rail to prevent me from falling over. I take on the responsibility to keep myself safe. Funny thing... I've looked at a helluva lot of scenery without guard rails in the past half century and yet somehow, amazingly, I'm still here. When you drive the Autobahn, do you crave a car that stops you from exceeding 80 km/h, because no one could possibly go faster and be safe? Or do you take the responsibility to drive right at whatever speed YOU choose? Making UAC a requirement is one of the major reasons Win 8 flopped, and Win 10 will fail to win the hearts and minds of hundreds of millions of Win 7 users. -Noel

Just so it's clear, and because I seem to be misinterpreted more often than not around here lately, I am in agreement: The icons ARE ugly. Just not quite as ugly as in 10122. Sparkles, I hope you didn't take my response the wrong way. Jaclaz, you may have missed Hypothsis #3 (noel): They are ugly because Microsoft wants them to be. They seriously want Windows 10 to start out bad. It has to do with a company trying to survive wild success (see the Digital Equipment Corporation story as an example). In that bit you quoted, sparkles, my point is that Microsoft intentionally made them ugly^2 (ugly squared) so that they could get away with making them singularly ugly and have people actually praise them. Yes, there really are people who get paid for thinking like that. Isn't it clear to everyone yet? I'm sorry for spouting "negativity", but I've been saying it all along: Microsoft is clearly trying its hardest (through shrewd Marketing moves and a dash of good ol' fashioned incompetence) to make Windows 10 start out bad so they can roll out update after update that improves it in obvious fashion (and without doing very much work). Then will they be a smashing success, and survive for decades more. Come September 1st, hundreds of millions of Windows 7 users (the same folks who wouldn't adopt Win 8) will have their very first look at Win 10 after the free "upgrade". What are the possible outcomes? 1. A majority will realize they've been duped and immediately try to roll back to Windows 7... If most of them succeed Microsoft will plug on, spinning the adoption numbers as if nothing bad had happened, and continue their tactics of coercion. -or- 2. A majority of Windows 7 users will be too stupid to notice they're duped or too lazy to attempt a roll-back - and Microsoft wins big. If the mass roll-back doesn't or can't succeed, well... Get out the popcorn. That will be interesting. Note that nowhere in the above is failure, since everyone will still be running Windows, no matter what. -Noel

Apps positively suck (note: no negativity). -Noel

Think of the response they're eliciting, though... As compared to the icons of the past, which actually had perspective, these orthographically projected icons are ugly. But think about them as compared to the most recent set. The press is now hailing them as "Much better!". So what's the last thing the ADHD public hears? "Much better!" Same thing as "feels better when it stops hurting so bad". Dish out serious pain, and people will react positively when it is dialed back a little bit. I will be interested in, on September 1, how many people choose to roll back their OS to Win 7 after suffering through the "free upgrade". I think Microsoft has underestimated the awareness of the public. -Noel

Does Spartan run ActiveX at all? I hope not. That's the root of many (most?) security problems using IE. Inviting malware in by putting up a big neon sign saying "Come On In! Lodge Here Free!", then having UAC try to slap its hands as it reaches for the family jewels doesn't strike me as a prudent security tactic. There is nothing I can see about Spartan/Edge that is attractive to users... It's got fewer capabilities than IE - last I heard it wouldn't support web sites coded in older versions of HTML, and this business I discovered where it won't even allow something to run while the App is minimized - and it's uglier inasmuch as it doesn't conform to the desktop theme. Microsoft seems to have become convinced they only have to SAY things are "new and improved" while not striving to actually do it. Whatever happened to the "make it better and they will come" school of software development? Is real work just too hard for the poor, dear young folks starting out in software today? -Noel

That was no critique! I saw myself in that statement when I made it. Maybe that didn't come across. You worry way too much over the exact wording of things, jaclaz. "Some of US like to experiment with cobbled-together environments... That's kind of what this forum is about.". Better? -Noel

Heh heh heh, is anyone truly dead any more? It is the day and age of zombies, sparkles. This one even wants a cell phone with Sprint service. He seems like just the kind of guy who would like icons that look like: -Noel

The only way I know of since Microsoft stopped coloring them per a value in the registry is to craft inactive border shading resources in the theme atlas to add the color you want. But (unless you set up several such files) your color will be fixed. I can't recall specifics, but I thought Big Muscle might have said something at one point about working out a way for inactive windows to be colored - but I might have dreamed that. -Noel

They don't want just one department to get all the glory, so that's why they're making the Windows theme look like Office 2013. It's like in the film "Demolition Man" - all restaurants are Taco Bell. Good post, by the way. -Noel

Basically, it should be just a matter of changing STREAM resource 1192 in a copy of aero.msstyle to be an updated PNG file, right? I want to keep everything else the same as aero.theme. With Big Muscle's UxThemeSignatureBypass DLLs loading, it seems I could make a new .msstyles file with the updated resource, then define a .theme file to reference it, right? So I tried it... Started with a copy of Win 10 build 10130's aero.msstyles fileRenamed it to: Rounded.dllReplaced STREAM resource 1192 with my own theme atlas file, crafted to have all the graphics in the proper positions (they haven't moved for a few builds now). Saved the result into Rounded.dllFinally, I renamed Rounded.dll to: Rounded.msstylesCopied Rounded.msstyles to the folder: C:\Windows\Resources\Themes\aeroEdited C:\Windows\Resources\Themes\aero.theme to refer to Rounded.msstyles where it had aero.mssytles before, and to use name Rounded instead of @%SystemRoot%\System32\themeui.dll,-2013.Saved the edited result as Rounded.themeNow I can select the Rounded theme from the Personalization panel, and it appears to load (it loads the background image I chose), but the theme atlas resources are not those I placed in the file. Any ideas what I might've missed? -Noel

Try using more words to ask your question. I don't know what you mean. -Noel

I think you need to start to accept that 16 bit Windows is gone and done. Some folks like to take on technical challenges and run cobbled-together environments just to see if they can do it, but that doesn't really sound like where you're at. You never did, to my knowledge, answer my question directly: Is there a (more) current release of the Oxford product that does what you need and runs as a Windows 32 bit application? If so, how much does it cost, and how does that compare with the time you're spending worrying about this? -Noel

Except a major reduction in functionality, you mean? Does anyone really think the browser not running things while minimized is acceptable? -Noel

I started the Pandora web site playing on the Spartan browser, then minimized it. The music stopped, and returned when I restored it. Yep, it's 1990 again. Soon we'll be back to the 1980s. -Noel

Just to be clear, are you seeing translucency? I'm seeing none here, though DWM doesn't crash continuously after Aero Glass fails to hook it like before, borders can be restored, and there's some semblance of my theme atlas showing. This will make it slightly more usable. Here's a theme atlas that accomplishes the above with build 10130: http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/10130/RoundedCornersOpaque.png Big Muscle, if you're interested, this is what the debug.log shows. -Noel

It's a Fast Ring build, so I assume no symbols are online. So we continue to deal with the "Buried Alive on Hoth" system theme. -Noel