ciHnoN

ciHnoN, Welcome to the thread! If you have seen my posts, you'll know that I completely agree with what you're saying. I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the excerpt I quoted at the top of this post. As the OP , I'd say that a brief description of what's going on with Unity would be OK here, if it helps to guide readers on the choice of an alternative OS down the road. People (like myself ) who are considering making a switch because of what Microsoft is doing with to Windows would also find it relevant to know if the Canonical folks are walking down the same route as Microsoft. So, please do let us know what's going on with Ubuntu! --JorgeA Thanks! I will keep it very brief to not go off topic on the thread but here are two samples from Ubuntu and one from OSX: (btw. Ubuntu theme reminds me of when I eat red beets and go to WC. Brown with a purply hue? eeuw) 1. http://betanews.com/...or-recommended/ ...I dislike this hippie guy Stallman, I do not agree on his views... but... on this specific matter: "...universal search feature built into Ubuntu 12.10's Unity Dash, sends off details of users' search requests to Canonical's servers.", in short, when you use the search built-in into the operating system itself, it collects and gathers information and sends them to their servers. Don't you get a warm and fuzzy feeling on this? haha... (Windows 8 "charms" has also a built-in share button which although I am not sure how it works, I do NOT want it and it CANNOT be removed!) 2. Ubuntu Unity: http://royal.pingdom...rface-to-blame/ ...read up on it, it is also dumbing down the user space. 3. OSX: http://www.macgasm.n...your-downloads/ ..."Your Mac Keeps A Log Of All Your Downloads" ...everything you ever downloaded, regardless of from which application is logged! Now back on topic about Windows 8... as you said, so true... Windows 8 actually forces me go back to DOS days, to remember all sorts of weird commands and shortcuts... which ís messed up! Many many many things are now completely invisible, no visual clues AT ALL. They also seem to have a love for hiding scrollbars, they show up 1-2 seconds and poof they are gone!!! I don't know where I am by just looking, I have to actually scroll to find my position. The shutdown procedure in Windows 8... wow, just wow... first you need to bring the start screen, then you need to hit that one pixel up right of screen, bring the charms bar, then click on Power button... and THEN a menu where you can shut this thing down! LOL! Meanwhile, if you press your name in start screen, you only get lock and log out!!! hahhaha... did Microsoft get a cut from electricity companies to hide the shutdown button? (I never turn off my PC because it's a server but nevertheless!) A specific thing I absolutely HATE about Android is that things scroll into view and hide away from all over the place. Windows 8 is exactly like that. You accidentally move your mouse in a corner, things pop out... some list of weird "apps" (I hate that word) which I do not want to see... some charms bar (eeeuw) with a big fat SHARE button... GIVE US YOUR DATA... ALL YOUR DATA ARE BELONG TO US... LOL.. it's a mess. Absolute mess.Oh, and let's not forget about "'Apps' aren't supposed to be closed." debacle. They want these "apps" to keep running in the background, doing who knows what and hogging resources. It is kind'a like IE-toolbars back i XP days all over again. I would love to see some stats from Stardock, how much sales they made post Windows 7 and post Windows 8. That should say a lot. Windows 8 is a defective product made to force users into specific habbits of using THEIR device, specific ways which Microsoft dictates. I have been hanging around on one of Microsoft's forums Channel9... and I tell you, those devs at MS... many of them are absolutely clueless... and with a clueless CEO on top who surrounds himself with Yes-men... it is as if, they want to fail. Maybe Ballmer is shorting the Microsoft stock? Who knows! *lol* EDIT: Minor fixes (forum editor is buggy in Opera), added a section about closing apps.

Man those two quotes from mZombies are really creepy. It's like kindergarten or retard minded people suddenly found a keyboard. Also very interesting how all articles concentrate on the design and completely ignore the lock-in which is in place in Windows 8 via WinRT which forces ALL developers to get approved by "Windows Marketplace" and only publish their applications from there. Imagine that, you can't make a private application for you and your friends. It is not possible. I cannot understand how every major propaganda news ignores this AND that all those readers allow it to go ignored. A friend of mine installed Windows 8 the other day... 10-20 minutes he was in it and he couldn't take it anymore. He bought Start8 to get rid of the start screen. *lol* Using Windows 8 is like trying to catch a bouncing plastic ball in your room, really hard and makes you tired. Haha... I loved this section: $200 to turn over my PC to Microsoft so they can dictate stuff to me... right. Some of the arguments are almost near insanity "Windows 8 is great because it boots 5-10 seconds faster." hahahhaha...

Wow, their ignorance has no limit. The fact is, in my humble opinion that Microsoft is digging its own grave by entering the hardware market. One of the reason Microsoft is big is due to their OEM partners. They will now compete with OEMs, same time they are competing with application developers and lock-ins, they p*** off for example Steam (I hate DRM but I love Steam because it never gets in my way). All this shows desperation in my humble opinion. The ship is sinking. It is sad because I too was a fan of Microsoft before Windows 8. I even could live without start menu... but the lock-in of WinRT? No, that is a pill I won't swallow. That's a step toward making my PC no longer mine. You know it's ironical that all those neowin zombies, most of them probably installed Start8. hahaha... Windows 8 is so good, you need 3rd party products to actually make it work for you! *lol* I heard some download numbers combined for Start8 and StartIsBack to sum up to maybe 4-6 millions. These are HUGE numbers! It is not some geek altering a registry anymore. Microsoft should worry because when you release a product and millions and millions buy an application to FIX it, something has gone horribly wrong. Like selling a car with square wheels, customers need to buy round wheels... yet, the CEO isn't fired, the board of directors don't say anything and zombies scream "YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO ACCEPT CHANGE! JUST LEARN TO DRIVE WITH SQUARE WHEELS!". Square wheels are so modern!

Haha indeed. Although I shouldn't laugh. The same idiots who love the Windows 8 Orwellian "Marketplace". It shows how humanity is in deep deep deep trouble frankly. I think the hope is lost. I personally got banned from Microsoft Channel9 forums when I criticized the lock-in for Windows 8. I raised concern about how side loading of applications writen in WinRT is not possible (ironically, in Android there is an option) and they actually defeneded this lock-in. A forum where almost all of them are developers defended the lock-in and banned me from it. They must love being slaves. This is a fitting video:

http://www.neowin.ne...-to-pornography ...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device! It's like them dictating what sites you will be browsing. They have made people used to these in mobile devices, which is really sad. I cannot believe people buy these devices. Then again, if we look at our societies as a whole, we quickly realise that people are at deep sleep. Not only in this subject but all other subjects. It almost seems like they like being slaves. The fact that very few propaganda news websites picked up on this lock-in which is there in Windows 8 shows how deep they are in each others' pockets. All in the same team while making a show for the sleeping public. Very scary stuff.

It seems that DISM replaced the pkmgr. Do you happen to have any more specifics how to actually remove flash from the Windows install? Thanks EDIT: Hm... weekend read I guess: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh825042.aspx http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh825239.aspx

I think the panic has begun, http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2013/01/22/microsoft-bid-to-help-dell-recalls-apple-investment/ ...Microsoft Corp. MSFT may invest around $2 billion as part of a possible buyout of Dell Inc. DELL. Instead of making a good OS, they make a turd Windows 8 and now they will be making all the OEMs go to war with them too. They are cooked and done, stick a fork in them.

Excellent, thank you very much! ...and yes, VM is always the first choice.

Yes. Although, even if you delete these disgusting flash files from Windows 8, not only it will try to reinstall them with a Windows Update. The control panel item will still be there for some reason. Basically, the flash is almost uninstallable unless someone finds a way to remove this thing totally, kind'a like nLite. So frustrating.

Yeah. Hm... hitting that start screen... ONE PIXEL from RDP is not easy when not in full screen or even when connecting locally to a VM. I really wonder what these moron were thinking when they OK the release of that abomination. I wonder if they ever connected to Win8 from RDP and if they ever thought "hm, that one pixel is pretty hard to hit".

Do you mean where the flash is in Windows 8? I have tried this on desktop. It is in Windows\System32\ um... somewhere there, Macromedia folder. By the way, I use Opera and flash doesn't need to be installed in order to work. I only use the DLL-file and put it inside opera ( I manually update it ) so this way, flash dll has no admin rights. ONE DLL. EDIT: (OT, but can you believe for only ONE dll, Adobe asks administrator rights to your system? *lol*)

It might be easier but not userfriendlier, as you say, it is hidden... and doesn't even show up in Start Screen. Another reason why start screen is useless. Thank you for the tip by the way! It helps me save clicks! ))

...although, the issue is that all those senators and OEMs do work together. They are all in each others' pockets. I work as a systemsdeveloper at a very large international corporation which sells hardware. I am inside a lot of meetings and I have full access to our systems. I see it all, everyday, how manufacturers con people consumers. It is all the good'ol boys' club, me and you (we the people) are not invited. The thing is, it does not matter anymore to me personally if they fix this with a 8.1 update or learn a lesson by the time Windows 9 is out. The trust I had on Microsoft is gone. I will no longer produce software for Windows. That is the first step I have taken toward this. I will not develop any more software. I will create websites only, using W3C standard. Will also try to minimize my exposure and dependency not only to Windows but the OS itself as a whole. Ubuntu Linux is also doing very odd things which I won't bring here because it's off topic. ---------- On anothe note, the "charms bar" which is faaar from anything charming is also very creepy. Try closing a maximized window without making it pop 7 out of 10 times... and not to mention the forced icon "share" in it. Desktop/PC is a PERSONAL PRIVATE PC. I do not want a share function built-in to the OS! Where did my privacy go? The kids have been so conditioned, the xbox/facebook generation that all hope seems lost right now. ---------- They even hide control panel. Do you know how hard it is to find that thing? Bring up explorer from desktop, click on the desktop icon and THEN one will see it! WHAT THE HELL? It is clear that they are doing away with all sorts of customization and control for the end user. They are taking over. Lock, stock and barrel. I have found a way to kill off the "start screen" once in desktop without using an extra 3rd party application always running, which is nice. I do not dare to mention it here, however. I'm afraid they change it in an update! *lol* And why did the aero go away? It is amazing how many zombies for example in neowin, not only actually like this but also defend the notion that Microsoft did NOT give us who like aero an option to turn it on!!! Dictatorial zombies are the worst zombies. Clearly the gUI is still hardware accelerated and in the previews aero was there. Not offering an option is another insult to their userbase. ...but I'm sure it is all a distraction. They needed something very big, a huge distraction so people forget about the lock-in which is coming into the playfield. Sadly, they seem to have succeeded so far. I wish people did not use Windows 8 instead of installing it and buy StartIsBack or Start8. All of those who did it clearly dislike the "start screen" but yet, they use Windows 8. If all of them, millions of people had just say "No", Microsoft would have changed this in a second!!! But for me personally, me, who always defended Microsoft, who always trusted them... the line in sand is drawn now. Microsoft, remember Job 38:11 ..."This far you may come and no farther."

Indeed sir, indeed! I'm sure in 10 years from now, we will look back at this messing around with the Windows brand and forcing this metro crap as the reason which broke the camel's back.

Did you that Windows 8 comes with built-in Adobe Flash? I tried to remove this thing, almost impossible. You cannot uninstall the crap. Once you do actually manage to take the security lock from the files deep inside the Windows folder and remove this thing, IT WILL COME BACK with a Windows update again! And why the f*** is this thing installed INSIDE the Windows system folder? It is just a DLL. WHY does it need administrator right in order to show come YouTube video? I don't want Flash and don't want to install it in my system. Why is the OS forcing me to install Flash? WHAT THE F***? I want a CLEAN OS where I choose what to be in it or not. IT IS MY PC! Windows 8 is not an OS. It is an abomination. 1995 called...

Spot on! It's about dumbing down the device. It is about them taking control and making all these devices which were once "ours" to become some kind of cable-TV / TV device with limited functionality. It is not "ours anymore. They want to rent these to us. PC was about empowering the users. Tablets and Smartphones are not. They are about creating a new "TV-era". They will be in control.

These on and off buttons are absolutely horrible. The first time I saw them, I didn't know how to operate them frankly. They are way too flat so you don't get the switch feeling from them at all. Not to mention the scrollbar which auto hides. You never know where you are unless you actually scroll. So so so annoying. Why isn't Steve Ballmer fired? The entire design team should be fired! Surely there are far more creative ways to make switches, gUIs and such? There is something really wrong here, it's as if they WANT this to be unusable and ugly. As if they WANT it to fail. I mean, they can't be THIS stupid... can they? Common sense seems to be not that common after all.

Here are some of my first thoughts on Windows 8 (and Microsoft). Will probably add more later. I have used Microsoft software as long as I can remember from my first "PC" (IBM SX-25). One thing I always did was to trust them. Sure, everyone said this or that about them but inside Windows, you were kind'a free to roam. I never felt that Linux is free because due to its complexity, I never felt I could actually do what I wanted to do. It got in my way all the time, fix this or that, read this, and when asking from the guys who knew, I got "RTFM"! So it felt like a prison because I was always at the mercy of those "linux techies". Microsoft Windows due to its simplicity empowered me. Microsoft Windows made it much easier so I could concentrate on what I actually needed to do on my PC. Note that I say my PC. With Windows 8, I no longer feel that this is "my" PC anymore. The same disgusting uneasy feeling I get from Android and OSX, I now get from Windows 8... I'll tell you why. When buying an Android device or OSX, it's locked up. It is not your PC if you don't have administrator account on it. It is not your device if you cannot uninstall 3rd party crap from it. It is not your device when by default, there are a ton of applications on it which are there just to mine your data. Take your GPS position, contacts, and basically, it's their device you borrow. You can't even install a new version of the OS on these Android devices. Complete 100% locked. You rent it. This is not a buy, it's a rent. (rooting doesn't count) Windows 8... they put this creepy thing called "Windows Marketplace", which is an absolute totally Orwellian word. They call something which is locked up (walled garden), which takes 30% of your profit and you must get approval from them a "Marketplace". No sir, that is no marketplace. War is not peace! Windows 8... suddenly, they call the open desktop where you can do whatever you want with your PC "legacy". They want all programmers to write in WinRT and lock themselves inside this Orwellian "Marketplace". So not only they want to take away 30% of your profit, they also want to dictate what you will be running on your PC. It must be "approved" by them. They have completely lost it. Who do they think they are at Microsoft? Do you actually think that I would start making applications for your OS? Do you actually believe that I will be asking permission from idiots at Microsoft in order to be able to distribute MY application? What did you say? Oh, I can't even make a WinRT application and give it to my dad or a friend? Oh, you need to approve this too? Well, up yours! You can take WinRT and put it where the sun don't shine! Basically, what they have done is to make me... force me to not ever write one more single piece of software for Windows. I will not do it! I rather change my profession, do something else with my life than systemsdevelopment, than allow these b*st*rds at Microsoft to dictate what I can do with MY PC. If a day comes where there no longer would be an option, you know what I would do? Trash the PC! Just like I did with my TV 14 years ago. I do not miss TV one bit and I will not miss PC one bit if it becomes a TV. What they are trying to do is to make PC like TV, very slowly turning up the heat on people without the frog jumping out of the pan. All this lock-in and cloud talk is just baby steps toward them becoming like car giants. Windows 8 is the first step toward this. Now, if you are a real cynic, you could even take this one step further, this whole chaning the gUI of Windows 8, removing start menu and all is just a distraction! The real issue is not the start menu. The real major issue is the lock-in!!! The "must be approved" or we will not allow you to run it on your PC. They knew people would be super angry when they changed the start menu but that is exactly what they wanted. To distract you from the real issue, the lock-in! I will post more later. My blood boils when I think of Windows 8 and I don't want to make this post into an angry rant. Thanks for listening. EDIT: Spellings.

Excellent thread. Took me a while to read it, well I managed to read half of it or something. I registered here just to be able to reply to this thread. This place seems like a nice place, a lot of non-zombie people here it seems, which is a breath of fresh air for once. A lot of crap out there but in this place I felt there are not angry rants but rather good arguments against Windows 8 so I thought, what the heck, I'll join! This reply is specifically made towards "CharlotteTheHarlot" with the odd and fun nickname, however. You are spot on and thank you for writing all those wonderful posts. I enjoyed reading them. Sorry for posting a little off topic reply, I'll post again with my thoughts on this... thing... Windows 8. Cheers! EDIT: Fixed spelling.