JorgeA

I've been using the Windows Technical Preview for a week now. While I intend to post the bulk of "first impressions" in @dencorso's thread of that name, I thought that this topic deserved its own discussion. When I first heard that Microsoft was reviving the Start Menu for its next OS, I was delighted; and when I installed the TP and saw it in action for myself, I was pleased. It looked familiar enough. Then I started working with it and slowly discovered that the similarities with the Vista and Windows 7 start menus are largely confined to just that -- the looks. In terms of functionality, compared to earlier versions it's limited in significant ways. Let's start with the design. At first glance, it looks similar because it's divided into two vertical panes just as it's been since Windows XP. By default, the new Start Menu lists Metro "apps," Windows tools/accessories, and installed programs in the left pane, and a selection of Metro apps in the right pane, such as for the Windows Store, Skype, music, and Windows Feedback for TP testers. If you don't care or have any use for Metro apps, you can unpin them from the menu. If you unpin all of them, the right pane will disappear altogether and the menu is reminiscent of the one in Windows 95/98. Fortunately, you can use the right pane to add the usual Start Menu options such as Control Panel, Network, and the like. However, the actions needed to put them in the right pane are less than intuitive: if one of these is already pinned to the left pane, then you right-click on it and select "Pin to Start" (huh, I thought that's where I was already). If not already pinned to the left pane, then the process for adding the "traditional" links to the right pane is somewhat laborious: you need to go into the Start Menu properties (by first opening the menu and only then right-clicking on it), select Customize under the Start Menu tab, and then check off each item that you want to add. But this will put the item in the LEFT pane. In order to get it into the right pane, you need to right-click on that item (as described above) or click-and-drag it over to the right pane. Then, to make more room for other listings in the left pane, you again right-click on the item there and select "Remove from this list." The right pane will show the newly added items as relatively large squares (tiles) with an icon and the name of the feature or application, as if they were Metro apps. As a result, not only does the right pane clash visually with the text-oriented design of the left pane, but also the content is much less dense. You can make the tiles smaller, but then the text labels disappear and you're left with a bunch of unlabeled icons, some of which (like the icons for Documents and Pictures) look very much alike, and especially at that size. With enough clicking and moving around, you can get a reasonable facsimile of the way things are arranged in the Vista and 7 start menus. (See screenshot below.) But I have not found a way (assuming that there is one) to get the left pane of the TP Start Menu to show installed applications that I've been using lately, as the Vista/7 Start Menu will do automatically for us. Win10TP Start Menu and Desktop. Note the transparency in the DOS box; would that MSFT offered this option (for window borders only; not crazy about the transparent window contents) for all windows in Windows 10 Speaking of programs used lately, there is no longer a "Recent Items" Start Menu item to give you a global list of recently opened files. In fact, an option for this isn't even available in the TP Start Menu properties. The Start Menu is generally less customizable than its predecesors. Previous versions offer more options for changing what the menu displays and what it searches for. For instance, in Vista/7 you can tell the search function to look for the term you want in communications (e-mail), favorites/history, files, and installed programs. There are no settings listed for these, either, in the TP Start Menu properties. As a result, while also automatically offering to give you results from the Internet, the TP Start Menu search might or might not show you results that are on your own PC. I tried doing a search via the Start Menu for all PDF files (" *.pdf ") on my 7 system, and got numerous results -- but nothing at all in the TP Start Menu search even though there are PDFs in there already. By the same token, in the Vista Start Menu, once you type your term in the search box, you get a list of matching items, and then two additional options to "Search Everywhere," which takes you to Windows Explorer search; or to "Search the Internet" which opens a new browser window with results from your chosen search engine. One of the TP features that's most often complained about in the tester forums has to do with the new Search button (the magnifying glass) that Microsoft put next to the revived Start Menu. No one seems to have figured out yet what that button does that isn't already done by Start Menu Search, File Explorer search, and/or launching your browser to search the Web. As a result, the complaint is that it takes up valuable Taskbar real estate uselessly -- and there is apparently no way to disable it. Somebody has figured out how to hide it, but then the space where it sits is apparently still unavailable for other use. Out of curiosity, I typed the names of a few programs I've installed, in both the Start Menu search and the dedicated search button. Most of the time the results are the same or very similar, but if you type (for example) "system restore" in each of these, then while the dedicated search button (right) will give you the sorts of results you'd expect from your PC (including "Create a restore point"), the Start Menu search (left) will give you but a single result, which when clicked on will take you to a Bing app offering results from the Web only -- not at all what one might expect. On the other hand, if you type "restore point" in each of the two search functions, both the Start Menu search and the dedicated seach will yield the "Create a restore point" result. So the relative behaviors of the two search functions are unpredictable, or at least not yet widely understood. The revived Start Menu in the Windows (10) Technical Preview is better than having no Start Menu, but it has a way to go to approach what users enjoyed in pre-Win8 versions. I hope that Microsoft will heed the feedback it's getting from its testers, and bring back the fuller Start Menu functionality and customizability that we are requesting, and in the process also allow users to fold the new dedicated search button's function into the Start Menu search. Without these improvements, if I had to buy a new computer with Windows 10 on it, I would still opt for one of the alternative Start Menus devised for Windows 8, particularly the fine ones created by @Tihiy or @xpclient's Classic Shell team. --JorgeA

Now that Windows 10 got its own sub-forum, is it in order to move this thread there? --JorgeA

+1 At least with Microsoft, we have a variety of options that don't involve moving to a different country or a deserted island... Meanwhile, from one of the articles linked to in the post just above here's another fact- and logic-free Win8 defender: Two comments: 1. About "touchscreen use on laptops and desktops" being "inevitable" -- yeah, as soon as human beings develop gorilla-type arms. Either that, or a stronger spine and back muscles to support constantly leaning forward into the laptop/desktop touchscreen for hours at a time. 2. About the Win7 UI being "2 steps backwards" -- going to the Win8 Metro UI is some 5 or 6 steps backwards, all the way to Windows 1.x with its tiled windows, simplistic color schemes, and lack of 3D elements. The commenter speaks of "our generation," which suggests he has no memory of what Windows was like originally... illustrating the saying that "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." --JorgeA

A Microsoft bigwig offers a non-explanation for the jump from Windows 8 to Windows 10: Microsoft's Tony Prophet on why they skipped Windows 9 for Windows 10: 'It came and it went' Microsoft sort of explains what happened to Windows 9 IMO the reason for the jump is more psychological than substantive in nature. The most plausible explanation is at the end of the Neowin post: --JorgeA

What does the following headline (and story) say about the place that Surface occupies in the public's mind? Report: Microsoft ‘Coaching’ NFL Announcers To Say ‘Surface,’ Not iPad --JorgeA

FWIW, CCleaner tags my TP installation as "Windows 8.1 Pro Preview." --JorgeA

That RP style theme sure is an improvement over what they came up with for the Technical Preview! --JorgeA

Yeah, it wasn't until I read somewhere that you had to turn off UEFI booting, that I was able to proceed with the TP installation. You can turn UEFI booting back on afterward, without problems, if that's important to you. --JorgeA

Over 1 Million People Have Downloaded the Windows Technical Preview I'm not too persuaded about the meaning of that "number of app launches" item. The testers are a self-selected group who are much more "into Windows" than the general using public, and moreover they're more likely to go around trying everything out to see how it's working. --JorgeA P.S. About those 200,000 pieces of feedback -- I feel like I've read about 120,000 of them in the last couple of days.

A few days ago, someone went to the trouble of compiling the most popular suggestions (up until then) from the Windows Feedback app for the TP. Here are the Top User Requests for Windows 10 --JorgeA

I've been making my way through the feedback in the Windows Insiders program for the Win10 Technical Preview, where you can vote to agree with observations, suggestions, and complaints other people have made or to propose your own. As you might imagine, there is a wide variety of opinions on Metro, the Start Menu vs. the Start Screen, Aero Glass, and the like. If I had to give an estimate, I'd say that more participants favor the choice to get the Win7 UI elements back, than oppose it. There is one pro-Metro guy, though, who really takes the cake. He wrote that, So, wanting people to have a CHOICE puts us in the same league as terrorists. Funny -- last time I checked, terrorists wanted everybody else to do things the way THEY prefer. In the Metro vs. Aero debate, whose viewpoint actually comes closer to that position? Fortunately, no one (yet) has agreed with him. --JorgeA P.S. A remarkable number of people have expressed their surprise at discovering that Comic Sans is still in the fonts list...

^^ LOL --JorgeA

I'm a little leery of giving them my birthdate. They say it's to "personalize" ads but how do I know that this information will not be accessible to anybody else (via a deliberate decision by Microsoft, or via hacking)? Is there a downside to providing a wrong birthdate? A couple more notes about the TP: 1) I customized the Start Menu color, and some time around then the automatic listing of All Apps by hovering stopped working. Now I have to actually click on All Apps in order to see the list of programs. 2) Also, I installed Classic IE from Classic Shell to enhance my IE11 experience; not having the title bar was disconcerting. The program icon and the title bar are back now, and the title bar is centered across the top. But the progress bar and zone indicator at the bottom right corner aren't showing up, even though they are checked off in the Classic Shell settings. I'll report the issue on the Classic Shell forum in case they don't already know about it. --JorgeA

After a few Adventures in Windows InstallationTM , I finally got the Technical Preview up and running. Here are my initial notes: The windows shown during Setup are in Vista/Win7 Home Basic style... including the shiny 3D buttons to close the window. I can confirm that a license key was not requested during installation to activate the TP.Moreover, despite what many websites are suggesting, you don't need to join the Windows Insider program in order to use the TP. I've already been asked a number of times for feedback by Microsoft as I explored the OS, so signing up is not a requirement for providing feedback either. (However, I do intend to sign up for that program so that I have the choice to participate in the forums that are supposed to spring up to discuss the TP.)Pleased to see that Windows Defender is actually listed in the new Start Menu, as its predecessor namesake did in Vista. It shows up under the Start Menu folder named, "Windows System."The Start Menu automatically lists the "All Apps" (formerly "All Programs") if you let the mouse pointer hover over that line. Good.And it's nice to see that OneNote is included, although it's the Metro app version.One annoyance is that when you do a search from the Start Menu, and click to see all results, Internet Explorer opens in the Metro IE app (although if you click on a result, confusingly you then end up in desktop IE).The Start Menu Search offers to "search everywhere," including the Web. It's not as bas as I'd feared -- if you type (say) "Control Panel," the top result, for the actual feature, is visually set off from the Web results. But I'm still going to see if there is a way to disable "search everywhere" as I don't trust that my search terms are staying strictly on my PC and not also being sent to a Microsoft server. If I want to search for something on the Web, I can open a browser.The desktop calculator is still there, under Windows Accessories. Much more discreet (in both size and appearance) than the Metro-style calculator.I changed the default background to a darkish solid blue. With the Taskbar now having changed to a light blue color, and the lack of (Aero Glass) window transparency, Windows 10 looks remarkably like Windows 98... except that even Win98 had 3D UI elements. More as I run across more stuff... --JorgeA EDIT: typos!

Satya Nadella's first "whoops!" -- Microsoft CEO apologizes for comments on women --JorgeA

After-the-fact rationalization, if you ask me. "Yeah, I really did intend to crash my car into that wall, so that I could take it to the shop and bring it back all fixed up." Best comment I've seen (so far in my reading) -- --JorgeA

Yes, to back up what @jaclaz said, Windows 10 is the OS that we all expected to be named Windows 9. To muddle things up even more, word out there is that some of the features that are going into Win10 were originally intended to go into that widely anticipated "Windows 8.1 Update 2" from August that fizzled into practically nothing. The scuttlebutt is that Microsoft decided to hold off on some of the more prominent changes (especially the revived Start Menu) in order to enhance the differences between Win8 and Win(9)10. There's also the idea that Win8 was beyond salvation in the public's eye anyway, so why not save the real changes for the new OS. Which would mean, of course, that the new OS has even less that is truly "new" in it. --JorgeA

That's one of the best explanation so far! What saddens me is the Dedoimedo article you linked before: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/windows-10-preview.html Dedoimedo (by definition) is ALWAYS right, but I guess there must be the exception that confirms the Rule. So, windows 10 is "better" than Windows 8/8.1. <- I wonder HOW the heck they could have made it "worse" . But the point on how much it is better, and I believe that Dedoimedo is overestimating this, at the light of the satisfaction for it remembers me good ol' school days where another kid got a better vote grade on a paper than what he actually deserved because he "improved so much from the previous one, and this needs to be appreciated" (while you got a slightly worse one than what would have been fair, only because "you are not doing as much as you can"). jaclaz Yup! From reading some of these Win10 reviews, I do get the impression that people are so relieved that Microsoft didn't make things even worse, that they're praising it just for that. There's no question that it seems to be better than Win8/8.1, but not that much better. Can hardly wait to install it and try it out for myself. --JorgeA

Until the day you forget for a moment and do... Good point! My safeguard for this, though, is that I'm installing Win10 on a secondary laptop that sits somewhere other than at my desk and is used only for very specific purposes. BTW, congratulations on your promotion to Supervisor. (It is a promotion and not a demotion, right? ) --JorgeA

And speaking of Microsoft issues, there is yet ANOTHER Windows Update that appears to be giving fits to some users. If all the reports are true and in fact are related to KB3001554, here we have an Update that has managed to: Leave Windows unresponsive Prevent Windows from booting Render a Bluetooth mouse useless Remove Skype Break DVD playback (ironic, because the Update supposedly is to "improve customer experiences in DVD playback") Make a game unplayable Don't know how widespread the problems are with that Update, but in terms of the sheer variety of issues created it must be some sort of record. And all for an Update that's given a remarkably vague and unspecific description: Glad that I now research my Windows Updates before installing them. This one smelled fishy and I took an especially hard look at it. I've hidden the Update from my Win7 systems. Doesn't bode well for that "versionless Windows," continuous update strategy that's being talked about with the introduction of Windows 10. --JorgeA

An argument could be made that, in this increasingly secularized culture, religion is being (has been?) replaced by a variety of "cults" of various degrees of importance and longevity. We've certainly heard of the Apple cult, but there are also Microsoft cultists (we've seen them) and Linux cultists, etc. Having excluded the transcendent, people seek out ever more trivial idols to worship and argue over. --JorgeA

Here's a different perspective on that point: Untwist your panties -- Windows 10's 'keylogger' is nothing to worry about When I get to install and try out Win10, I'll be taking advantage of this tracking to indicate to them how much I like the Start Menu. I'll also go into the personalization UI and perform multiple searches for "Aero Glass." After all, supposedly the whole idea of this Technical Preview is to provide MSFT with feedback as to what users want, don't want, will use or won't use. With any luck, they will actually pay attention this time, unlike what happened with Win8. But needless to say, I won't be doing any banking or even logging into any forum or account while in Win10... --JorgeA

Another thought on where to post. This thread became a place to comment on Microsoft-related issues generally, not just on Windows 8 specifically. So I'll keep posting here for Microsoft topics. Posts that compare Windows 10 to Windows 8 (better? worse?) also have a place here, of course, as they result from the Win8 fiasco. Sooner or later this thread will run its natural course. It's already run much, much longer than I ever expected it to. --JorgeA

Here's an explanation (see the comments section) for why Microsoft jumped from Windows 8 to Windows 10: --JorgeA

From a Win8 fan, an analysis of what went wrong with Windows 8: Microsoft gets slapped in the face thanks to Windows 8, will Windows 10 be a fix? Oh, and down in the comments section check out the Win8 diehard who named himself "Harrison Ford." His side lost the argument in the marketplace of ideas and he's p*ssed. Talk about a ragefest... --JorgeA