JorgeA

IMO the environment will become increasingly perilous for Microsoft if and as they get more agressive about switching Windows 7 users to Win10. Up until now, they've basically been inviting, reminding, and nagging people into making the downgrade to 10 (with a few "mistaken" involuntary downgrades arguably performed "in error"). By and large, the people who've switched are those who have been curious enough to try Windows 10. But when Microsoft makes Win10 itself a "recommended" update later this year as promised by Terry Myerson, and people who trusted in Microsoft's default settings get the new OS on their machines, hundreds of millions of users whose life focus is not on the state of their PCs will be affected. When they wake up on a given morning to see that their computers are asking to reboot to finish the Windows 10 installation, I wonder if these users will be offered a choice to specifically decline said installation while accepting whatever other ordinary updates may have come in as part of that Patch Tuesday bundle. That's where the danger lies for Microsoft. And it's not necessarily a legal one -- or, at least, not only a legal one. It could become a PR disaster as public trust in the company is shattered and non-expert users scramble to figure out what the heck happened and how to get back the applications that Microsoft "helpfully" removed when installing Win10 for them. The uproar over Win10 that we've been hearing thus far could turn out to be but a whisper in comparison to what may be coming. --JorgeA

^^ If I were an affected customer, hearing that "our product is just as bad as everybody else's" wouldn't exactly make me feel fetter about buying it. --JorgeA

Perhaps (in my haze of expecting words to mean things) I assumed they meant "keep accepting new insider builds", which I have not been doing. I *have* been accepting whatever Microsoft chums the "outsider" waters with. -Noel I guess only time will tell what will actually happen. One thing is for certain, and that is that Microsoft has managed to create an immense amount of confusion and uncertainty among the public with regard to its policies. As to whether the confusion is intended or unintended, I'm not sure which one would be worse. --JorgeA

If we have to start reformatting every four months, then Linux's twice-a-year release schedule actually becomes less of a bother than Windows. --JorgeA

IIRC, the way it's said to work is that if you're in the Insiders program, then you remain activated so long as you keep accepting (i.e., do not disable) new updates and builds; but if you drop out, then your copy does eventually expire and you'll need to buy a license to keep using Win10. --JorgeA

as a bonus I will give you (in the spoiler) a link to the source and no, it is less Off Topic than it seems ... jaclaz OMG, how I hate this impenetrable bureaucratic-speak. If you parse the sentence, you could make the argument that creating a security graph to help address the rise of cloud computingis one of the thoughts contained in that abstruse sentence. Well, I can think of one not-too-difficult way to address the rise of cloud computing: DON'T DO IT!!! That wouldn't require creating a new graph. It wouldn't even require a boatload of new spending -- on the contrary, they could reassign the techs servicing the cloud servers to the OS testing department and the technical-writing department, where they could start properly testing Windows Updates before they're released and writing detailed descriptions of what the updates are intended to do, as Microsoft used to. --JorgeA

^^ The proposed solution addresses issues of customer convenience, as with those third-party light bulbs that Philips had made "incompatible" with its smart plugs. But the customers in the survey are reporting that they're concerned about their security and privacy. The patient is complaining of an ear infection and doctor Luukkonen is prescribing an antacid. --JorgeA

And speaking of Microsoft taking an increasing interest in people's computers, check this out: Why is Microsoft monitoring how long you use Windows 10? 245 comments on this story had already been posted on Betanews.com when I clicked on it. --JorgeA

Yes, it's related... but if one has the POSReady hack but no IE8, havin IE6SP3 instead, the last update for IE6SP3 comes next week. All others continue until 2019 (exept for IE7, which also stops further on, this year). Absolutely! From the MS Update Catalog, as always! Don't know whether they'd install on Vista if unmodified, though... Thanks dencorso, this is good to know. I have one lightly used Vista system that I've kept on IE7 simply because I like the "look" of IE7, and I like to launch it every so often just to enjoy good design. IMHO Internet Explorer's UI got increasingly plain and dull with each new version after 7. So I was hoping that it might be possible to keep IE7 patched for longer this way, even if only for a couple more months. --JorgeA

But Noel, this shows that Dell (or Microsoft, or...) has such good service that they'll reach out to help you, even before you know you need them!! The serious (and sad) part of this, is that as Microsoft takes increasing control of people's computers, scams like these will only gain in plausibility: Ironically then, users need to become even more knowledgeable and alert just as Microsoft is fostering user cretinism by decreasing our control over our own systems and pushing simpleton Universal apps. --JorgeA

Maye people aren't as sheeplike as we fear: Smart-Home Gadgets Still a Hard Sell(May be behind a paywall) A reasonable concern, given that wireless is an inherently insecure technology. Who wants thieves or cops (all too often, the distinction is merely formal) to have the ability to unlock his front door remotely? If the Internet of Things market fails to take off, it will be very bad news for Microsoft's Windows 10 strategy. The whole OS is premised on the idea that the world is moving toward ubiquitous computing embedded in the stuff around us. But if consumers aren't interested, then the strategy collapses. --JorgeA

As word gets out that 7 is actually faster than 10, no doubt Microsoft will try to stomp on the information with marketing hype and bluster. Shills and fanbois on various forums will insist that 10 is the fastest and greatest. But it'll get harder and harder to resist the truth as the tests get duplicated by a variety of people and subsequent results confirm the earlier ones. --JorgeA

Well, yes... then again, this other page is also relevant, and particularly noteworthy are the following dates: Windows XP Embedded Service Pack 3 (SP3), Extended Support will end on Jan. 12, 2016, meaning the last updates for IE6 SP3 shall be issued next Tuesday !!! and Windows Embedded for Point of Service SP3, Extended Support will end on April 12, 2016, when IE7 updates shall be issued for the last time... Hence, after April, the oldest IE still supported ought to be 8... as always with MS, the more interesting info must be read between the lines... One comment and one question: The comment: I'm wondering how (if at all) this relates to the POSReady hack that makes it possible to continue getting updates for XP until 2019. Sounds like it's still better to go that route, since you'll receive updates for an extra 3 years (2016-2019). The question: Is it possible to download IE7 updates for this Windows Embedded, and then install them in XP or in Vista? --JorgeA

You did explain -- and very well, thank you! At first I thought you were talking about updates for Windows Defender, but what you report sounds even better for those who'd rather stay on Win8 than move to 8.1 or 10. It'll be interesting to find out if the method does work... and if so, then for how long they let it work. --JorgeA

Not only that, surprisingly (if you believe all the MS FUD) the sky has not fallen on our heads (yet ). jaclaz Yeah, where are all the online articles about the millions of XP holdouts who are now getting their PCs infected and hacked? --JorgeA

It sure does! --JorgeA

^^ In addition to the spoiler (which BTW is entirely true), my reaction was that Capossela is a patronizing jerk. Quit the talk about how you're so "concerned" about our safety, and mind your own f@#&ing business. Stop loving us and start respecting us and our preferences. Kudos to Gordon Kelly for posting this article. The first comment at the top says a lot about the, umm, "advantages" of Windows 10: Yeah, "just" get a new laptop. A$$holes. Another commenter is right on the mark: --JorgeA

Wow, very impressive!! It'd be interesting to compare a standard Windows 10 installation in terms of bootup time, browser launch and web page opening speed, and I/O or other processing performance, to your system with all that stuff disabled or removed. --JorgeA

Somewhat OT for this thread, but you brought it up: If Windows users are going to be subjected to massive, reinstall-level updates three times a year, with all the risks that entails, over time this is bound to create a growing constituency of p*ssed-off users whose reinstalls went badly and who from now on Just Don't Want Forced Updates. The clamor will slowly build to deafening levels that even Nadella and Belfiore won't be able to ignore. At that moment (when updates are no longer forced), Windows 10 will become a viable alternative. Thanks to @bigmuscle's and @NoelC's good work, I can probably work up a tolerable-enough system that looks halfway decent and doesn't keep (much) tabs on my activities. But forced updates are a deal-breaker: I need to be able to make my own decisions as to which updates are worth running the ever-present risk of installing. Sorry, I couldn't care less about the new Ruritanian currency symbol or the half-hour time zone change in Freedonia... but, like any Windows Update, their installation onto my PC still involves a chance of borking my system. They are simply not worth the risk, why should you force me to accept them. --JorgeA

I haven't been able to find any info on this either. FWIW, Windows XP is still getting Defender updates; IIRC they're slated to stop this coming April (~ years since EOS). --JorgeA

Well, who could contradict them? --JorgeA

Imagine the possibilities if the pregnancy test strip had Windows 10 IoT Core installed on it... --JorgeA

Despite Microsoft's increasingly aggressive tactics, Windows 10's growth continues to slow A figure of 200 million Windows 10 installs has been making its way around the Web, but this has to be taken with a grain of salt as it is unclear whether the number includes installations on the Xbox and on smartphones-- as well as Win10 "up"grades where the user ultimately reverted back to their previous OS. --JorgeA

Yeah, Microsoft and privacy are fast turning into antonyms. At some point they were helping New York City to build its network of red-light cameras, and they've been known to delete stuff from customers' OneDrive folders because they disapprove of it I started experimenting with Zorin OS 5 back when Windows 8 first came out, but quickly got tired of the new OS versions that felt like they were coming every three weeks. I think they're up to 10 or 11 by now. And while I liked their Start Menu-like application launcher, most everything else about Zorin's look just seemed grainy and unpolished in comparison to Vista or even Win7. I eventually replaced Zorin with Netrunner 12.12 which looks a lot nicer, but soon ran into the same upgrading issue -- after a while, there weren't even any more updates for 12.12. I tried to install Netrunner 16 over it following some website's instructions to maintain programs and settings, but the installer offered no clear way to just put it on the same partiition and I ended up with both 12 and 16 on the same HDD. If there's a way to install a new version of Linux over the existing one without losing one's programs and settings, making the switch from Windows will be a lot more appealing. --JorgeA

I suspect that has to do with when the ribbon is used, the application draws its own titlebar, while when dropdown menus are used, the application doesn't need to add icons into the titlebar, so it just uses the system one. Thanks for the explanation, now I understand! --JorgeA