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to patchworks: we need some kind of patcher, but it is quite difficult to do that. also my eXPerience shows that it is better ot create single package and then distribute it. ZIP package is safe for transport throught internet. many people said to me that automatic updates caused many trouble because new versions were not tested correctly Also as first thing the system updates must be done, and later graphics. this just cannot be chaged, or some things will be done twice. The documentation is needed. right now i am collecting all possible updates to find the most recent files. it took a day to check all updates which i have used with Immolator. it is aprox 52Mb of data and around 200-400 files which have been installed in my system as an upgrade. When basic windows 98 has approx 250mb then it is very large number. and when i finished and i started to synchronize them with my system i found quite a lot of files which needed to be upgraded. right now i am collecting only "neutral" updates which are bugfixes, version upgrades and others. files are being separated to directories and extracted from their packages. this allows us to create database with dates, and versions - easier to find and easier to upgrade single file (if somebody find one better). mindows... maybe, but i have collected a quite large amount of dlls to unique: pick up the Sky98 Theme if you wish

STEP 1: COLLECTING OF SYSTEM FILES since i have installed Exuberants service pack and later i thought that most holes and bugs in system were fixed (apparently yes) i didnt looked up for newer dll versions. when i starded Immolator project i found out that there is a lot of dll versions all over internet and it is hard to say which is better. Now i started structural analysis of all files in my own system and i am quite dissapointed how many old files i have here. many of them vere later fixed, oficially or unofficially. right now i am going to download most patches from MDGX's web page and put them to structured analysis and compare. The files will be collected into one work directory and file versions will be synchronized and later updated for newer version. Newer version MUST have differences in files, not only locals. At the end i will have complete list of most recent win98se system files, with their dates and versions. The list will be here for comments. STEP2: GRAPHIC AND SYSTEM MODIFICATIONS In this step we will create new themes, new icons, new buttons etc. In this part will be also added upgrades such as uberskin, kernel ex, 137gb fix, 2gb fix and other major system upgrades which are making win9x more usable and some other things. Also there is a question what to do with RLoews memory patch... These files will be added only when creators of the upgrade patch will agree with that. in this time we can create one installer for all these upgrades. idea is to make differences between bugfixes and enhancements. in this time NO applications will be added. STEP3: LOCALIZATIONS When the english system upgrade will be complete THEN we can step to the czech, slovak, polish, german, and many other locals. in this case additional bugfixes will be needed to pass thougt errors which may occur. STEP4: GNUWIN In this time it is best time for qnuwin to add system features via applications. This part can be added to installer but only when the rest is completely finished. STEP5: FURTHER UPGRADES AND UPDATES Any upgrade for windows 9x file which will be available will become also part of this package and will be released with it so soon as possible. file will be checked for errors, later upgraded with our graphics and later localized to all supported languages. then the new release of this pack will be out. Also there might me necessary to merge some upgrades into one (for example somebody create an upgrade from file version 4.10.1998 which allows larger files than 4gb and later we discover that newest release of the dll was 4.10.2228) so the train is moving out the station, so i am asking again who is or will be aboard XStyle - you will have to create new graphics such as start panel, welcome, logout panel, system applets, start menu and others. i know there are many of them right now, but we need new one. Documented, with source code available and with graphics in BMP format if possible. MDGX - i am able to separate all system files from your page, and other projecs and later from internet, but you are the best when it comes to this. you know all files for win9x. will you do this? Tihiy - Uberskin and wll are the things that will be surely needed, also your work with RP7 is great inspiration for me personally. You are skilled coder and i believe that you will be able to recreate your system applets again with source code and later Xstyle will add his graphics there... Philco - we can make czech and slovak locals when all files will be separated and jeweled with new graphics and features. Analada - can you create an installer? Xeno - i am counting with you in close future Unique - i believe there is time for maintaining for files ... Legal information (at least here for slovakia): User is able to modify his computer system in manner to be more functional or more efficient and is able to fix all his potential errors. the range of modifications is not specified in law and not in eula. (it means that you can edit your autoexec bat, change all possible settings in GUI or outside it) User is able to install any program on his computer. (that means user can install any program even if it modifies or alters system files, and it is not striclty specified if these files are third party. This is normal, because many drivers and apps are adding new system files, altering registers and other files - such as system ini, autoexec and other. Only what is certain that support from system developer is void - and right now when there is no win9x support it really doesnt matters) eulas are generally speaking about reverse engeneering when file is being transformed back to source form and parts of its code are used to create completely new product (mostly commercial). Support package is NOT a new product. All files included were created for cooperation with win9x systems. using winME/2k/XP files in Win98SE this can be problem because part of other commercial product has been added to different commercial product. This way of system upgrade is legal only when you own a license for newer systems. BUT if any upgrade package created by microsoft is intended for all Win9x family these files can be legally installed to older systems (for example - file xyz.dll has version 4.10.1998 is a part of win98. WinME contains version 4.10.2222, but later MS created patch for win9x systems with version 4.10.2228. Win98 can be used with versions 4.10.1998 and 4.10.2228, but not 4.10.2222?) Because of this the situation is very unclear, but normally if the file is a part of your system you can upgrade it separately as said in first legal section. so... i hope most information were correct (i have here some eulas and some books for lawyers - and i have read them carefully). This future package cannot produce any profit and cannot be distributed to users which does not own Win9x legally (rules which are obeying dll-files and other web pages). edit: DLLs and executables which will be approved to be part of the package will be marked with version nubmer 4.11.****, where stars represents original version number. so the pre alpha version of the package will be called as 4.11. (as windows 3.11 )

today i started to learn C++ so in near future i might be useful for app programming... (Hello World )

i had a little talk from tihiy. he might join if the team should work. so i have to talk about its goals and methods: 1. Single upgrade package which will include all know official and unofficial win9x upgrades. 2. Structured installer 3. structured betatesting 4. knowledge base 5. localizations 6. Themes 7. also if possible to be legal. for now i have combined several upgrades. Exuberants service pack, IE6, NET2.0, DX9.0c, vcredist 2008, uberskin and KEX into one machine. not bad solution but it took whole day. only trouble is that not all content is localized. GNUwin is nice project, but apps are bit far from OS upgrades... good point for begginning which may help us to find good way in sw.

to XRayer: if you enter XMSDSK line like this: c:\dos\xmsdsk\xmsdsk.exe 524288 K: /c1 /t /y C:\OS\COMMAND\label K: scorpion then the xmsdsk will be labeled as scorpion drive and system will recognize it as a harddisk. than you can enter the parameters in system settings without manually editing system ini. the drive will become visible for swapping. you can do this in Autoexec.bat

you need to set VCache size like this: MaxFileCache=32768 this shall fix your problem. also if there is problem with memory i know that AGP ATI cards and drivers have problem with AGP aperture size setting in bios. the best way is just to set to lowest possible, last accepted value is 128mb.

thx. i will try it but i just wanted to post some missing exports from visual studio installer. M$ has all the dlls bound together so they are using them more as other programs.

i have to learn C++ for my next job so i tried to install VS C++ 2005 and 2008. no installation was sucessful but... KEX 0.3.3e applied to passthought the "requires newer version of windows" vcsetup.exe of v2008 extracted with winrar. Setup.exe missing exports: kernel32.dll > HeapSetInformation shell32.dll > SHCreateDirectoryExW ole32.dll > CoWaitForMultipleHandlers apphelp.dll > file missing (i try to add it manually) userenv.dll > ExpandEnvironmentStringForUserW Shell32.dll > SHBindToParent advapi32.dll > InitiateSystemShutdownExW secur32.dll > GetComputerObjectNameW i believe that packages created directly by MS will be good source of information for us when it comes to identification of problem with exports.

the reason why i created this topic is to find ask all the people here if they want to participate. i guess that for domain or server was too early for now. so if anybody wants to participate on future development for windows 9x in i a kind of team lets say it i want to participate so much as i can so COUNT ME IN

Substitution VS Improving these processes have their advantages and disadvatages - in way of programming and also in way of law. i personally prefer improving because it can be applied as a free "Unofficial 3rd party support" of software - in this case operating system. in this case we can support people which have original win9x and we can redistribute some files which were included with these systems. gnuwin seems to be an interesting project, and partially i have developed similar collection in "Immolator" project, but i dont want to focus on apps as a final solution. Linux greatest advantage is evolution. few years ago a thought that it will be impossible to run there win32 apps, with DX or other MS apis. today are many games supported and also the hardware support by developers is improving. Win9x is facing fact that only few diehard users are searching a practical application for this system, but mostly they forget the fact that evolution of the system must go on. Yesterday i was stunned when i read that many opensource projects which also provide win32 versions have stopped win9x compatibility, just because they dont know about projects here. example: i discovered that latest Haali Renderer is technically best video displaying interface i ever met. it doesnt use CPU, but it works with GPU and image quality is really supreme. But i was disappointed when in version from november 2007 the creator of Haali media splitter stopped his win9x support. so there are several goals: - update windows dlls to be more compatible with newer apps - persuarde some opensource leaders to create win9x releases - or pick put the source code and create these releases and add them to win9x update package - get better hardware support (drivers) for new devices - has been partially reached with Nvidia cards, but the fight for compatibility is only in beggining. Win98SE is now not same system i have installed three years ago, and i would like to see that the improvement will go on further.

it it hard to compare windows with linux. for now. but lets compare dos and freedos and see whats right now happening with win9x linux has been here for years, but i can hardly tell if it has attracted users, mainly gamers, even when there is wine... people are just lazy when it comes to build up their own home pc - not only hardware, but just every sw detail...

Nobody can forbid us to install our own code to win9x. in that case it will be illegal to install any third party applications on their system and that is nonsense that means that we can use code which is opensource or our own to improve functionality of the win9x. and when we are talking about our code or opensource ... there is a lot of ways how to create a single program, or subsystem file. maybe there should be time to create completely new system core files fully compatible with old ones... but i didnt want to discuss about legality of our work here. i am just asking if people here are willing to work together... rest shall be solved then... also i dont belive that our work will threathen MS in any way now. since 96 percent of all computers is using Windows, and win9x users are so few as linux home users...

ok - lets say about one idea which i have... KEX allowed me to trick install Visual C++ 2008 in Win98se and dependency walker showed that the libraries are working good, but i cannot create installer and i cannot redistribute the files. legal way how to install Visual c++ 2008 is quite strange - unpack with WinRar, again unpack with winrar and execute one file (i have forget which one). later you need to copy resulted dlls from c:\ into "system directory" for this purpose we need some sort of "Upper level" installer which can perform installations for products which have been "locked" for win9x users. Legal/Eula: it is not reverse engeneering, just we have used special purpose installer to install the package correctly, without modifying code of package. Good and legal solution. there are two major points of interest: - system upgrades such as KEX, tihiys Uberkern - special installers which can be added to package and will unlock the installation process or prevent bugs which may occur For Example: - game Prey did not have any trouble during installation. - game Neverwinter nights was unable to complete instalaltion process and failure resulted in empty game directory since all applications i used were able to communicate with Win98Se drivers and upgraded dlls, but there are still some trouble with installers. the question is if there could be created some kind of installer shell which may catch installer needs and translate them for Win9x - for example when files are being extracted to system32 directory or when rundll is expected to be in system32 directory... the better way of doing that is of course create fully compatible system, but in some cases it will be harder... to unique: i am stil reading it

More heads know more i dont want force anybody to participate on existing project, i would prefer if there should be new one. For example - some people did good work with some upgrades in libraries, other guys created new graphics, but based on older libraries, or not so good libraries... also when it comes to use these two upgrades together you may experience compatibility trouble, or graphic/localization loss. this is mainly why i didnt used RP7 and other similar projects because they didnt work on localized versions correctly. the better way is to create single package, test all its files separately, change their graphics, add upgrades and later localize them all.

ok, i think it is time to clear some things. projects here have reached many goals separately, which i have sucessfully integrated into my home PC. As you know some people have done jobs which were previously impossible and practically my system has broken many system limitations. As i said before it can go on like this, but also it cant go on... For example Xeno86 has little time for it althought he is doing great job i am sure that he will need help. Also other guys are releasing patches and new codes and in some cases they are doing the same job, while some new projects will be soon necessary to keep win9x updated... collaboration will help to speed up development, finish some things and give an ideas for new ways. all projects have stabilized win in its behaviour. i really dont experience system crashes. that is something unthinkable for many people which have migrated to XP. But you guys DID IT. for now it is too soon saying that the win9x projects will try to create whole new OS based on freedos and fully Win32 compatible, or if there will be place to create single upgrade pack for all Win9x users, which will give XP apps, skinning, supreme stability and performance. i think that closest project to this idea is Revolutions Pack or my separate installations in "Immolator" project. RP pack uses files which are not included with my os and Immolator needs hours of separate installations to reach the goal. the primary idea for me personally is to create new pack, which will combine all possible upgrades in way when all people involved will do the part where are they best. (For example tihiy is skilled coder, and some people are wanting 32bit icons, but he also made graphics while there are other people skilled enough to create good icons and skinning) the opensourced win9x is also very good idea (i have read topic), but it will more time and also more people which will be skilled enough to reach it.

thats why the topic is here and why i didnt sent PMs

at this point it is really only an idea... but there is a webserver (coming online in few weeks) and there could be place for any further things which are not tolerated here... right now i think that it will be not good to break this community, but also i believe that request for consolidations are right, and new way of project creating may be more effective - for both developers and users.

Hi. I am sending this same message to some people in the forum which have participated on the projects. I must say that all the servicepacks which have been released is too much for any user - skilled or nonskilled. therefore it will be best to create real developer team such team needs skilled developers: Xeno86 for kernel Tihiy for system extensions XStyle for new design executables and graphics allseeing MDGX for consulting Gape, maximus decim and jimmsta for system components analysis and upgrade (DX, Net, VB, IE) sopofiric for some kind of patcher/Installer somebody like philco for localizations "hardware wiseguy" for driver development? maybe and me and some other guys for betatesting and feature requests. I know that all these guys can create their own project, but i can imagine what they can create together. What do you think about it boys and girls?

localizations can be solved but it must be done systematically. for example - there must be complete upgrade package first before we can come to this. there are more things which are being developed right now. it will take more time. if we want complete solutions we need some kind of scheduling... (project completion, betatesting, creating a single package, testing again, localization and again testing)

to aloha: i will see what i can do to TheRedFox: file is packed so if not downloaded correctly it may cause crc error, but will not extract at all... i dont know where is the problem... other themes are working correctly?

i always forget to add readme.txt to my packages copy "Sky98" directory to C:\windows\resources directory. then change the theme to sky98 and images shall load. they have to be in that directory to make theme work.

well my position is very different. Since Microsoft dropped support people here picked it up and started evolving windows 9x in same way as Linux has been evolved for more than a decade. I believe there is still place for new hardware. (ati radeon x850XT with SB Live and LCD monitor, with recent Intel Lan Card and new tvtuner.)

I hope that my message will help you, but i fear that you will not like it... I have been testing various settings of system, Vcache and some hw changes. In ALL cases the only stable setting when system was not affected by "not enought memory" was: Maxfilecache=32768 Minfilecache=32768 i have three testing tools - Tv tuner, command prompt, and Ultima Online with any hw and bios setting and with Maxfilecache=65536 i was able to work for several hours. Yesterday i worked with photoshop, watching tv, videos, listening music, opening and closing Ultima online. i was able to run system this way for 8 hours. then i attempled to open Ultima Online but system refuse to do so, because of lack of memory. please - try this setting, work for many hours and say if you encounter any trouble, or try your own, with command prompt, tv tuners and uo and watch if and when the problem may occur. Right now i believe that this is the last well working setting for win9x. with it NO errors with memory occured.

i have been analyzing the projects here for longer period and i use some of them. I am betatester - mostly my cotribution to these projects is to find errors or how to make them work together. Project Immolator is picking dozens of available updates - official MS updates, making not supported upgrades work (such as vcredist 2008), and finding unofficial upgrades created by folks here... All upgrades in first page can be used at the same time, improving system functionality, stability and functionality so much as possible. Althought it can be used as kind of tutorial it cannot be used as a single upgrade - at least not at this time. As long i know most upgrades which i use cannot be distributed becaused they are MS sotware - such as internet explorer - or are not distributed under GNU or similar. The complete list of all upgrades can be used for creation of ultimate upgrade pack, but my work here is still not done, while i still can find a lot of imperfections in my own system. also the fact that i am not able to create program which will execute the upgrade... the problems which are solved by certain upgrades are: - compatibility - mostly Kernel Ex which is improving the system in very strong way, also the problems are solved by some distributions of DirectX, NetFramework, MDAC and other MS products - stability - in my case Unofficial Service Pack 2, and some tested pieces of software (slimbrowser and other) - functionality - 4gb files patch by LLXX, 137gp patch, NUSB - desing - with Tihyis Uberskin, also with WLL and other I believe that all these upgrades can be put into a single upgrade package, but i am not able to do so... (for more info look into topic "Immolator")

theme uploaded...