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2 Lan Segments

patronu
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patronu

patronu

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I have two network segmets connected to server. One segment with 169.254.0.x and the other with 169.254.1.x. The subnet mask is 255.255.255.0 for both segments.

Everything works fine except one thing. Except for the system acting as a router (Windows XP Pro with Kerio Winroute Firewall), i can't see in "My Network Places" the systems on "the other side" of the router.

How can I fix this?

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chilifrei64

chilifrei64

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I don't know that product very well so I wouldnt know where to tell you to start.

However, one thing common between routers is that they don't forward broadcasts.. meaning the systems on the other side of the router will not show up in my network places because the computers on the other side will never receive their lan announcements.

Sorry this is not specific in terms of fixing but maybe this will help lead you to an answer.....

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m8rk

m8rk

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Shouldn't/couldn't the subnet mask be 255.255.254.0 for two contigous/adjacent IP ranges like this [i'm told the first range should always be an even number]?

That way machines in both ranges could see each other.

Making the subnet 255.255.0.0 would make the scheme very inneficient - searching 255x255 ranges rather that 2x255 [in the case of 255.255.254.0]

Edited by m8rk
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patronu

patronu

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If i use the bridging feature i can't use two lan segments because of the DHCP server. The dhcp server will see 1 network and the 2 lan segments will have both 169.254.0.x.

I found in registry this key [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Tcpip\Parameters]

"ForwardBroadcasts"=dword:00000000.

chilifrei64 you said that routers don't forward broadcasts. If i make

"ForwardBroadcasts"=dword:00000001 it will help?

As for making subnet mask 255.255.255.254 i don't think it will help because this splits the same subnet in smaller parts. In this case 7 parts.

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m8rk

m8rk

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not 255.255.255.254 > 255.255.254.0

by setting your subnet mask to 255.255.255.0 your PC will only search 169.254.0.x and not 169.254.1.x and vice versa. [255 addresses]

a subnet mask of 255.255.0.0 will search 169.254.x.x [255 x 255 addresses]

a subnet mask of 255.255.254.0 will let the PC search just the two ranges: 169.254.0.x & 169.254.1.x [255 x 2] - is my understanding.

Have you setup dns forwarding on your server?

Edited by m8rk
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chilifrei64

chilifrei64

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By changing a setting on the computer it will not change the way the router behaves. The hole point to routers is to break up broadcast domains into smaller broadcast domains to keep broadcast traffic isolated to one lan segment. And to do the whole routing thing.... :P Windows 2000/XP doesn't use that registry key anyways. It is only there for backwards compatibility with NT.

What you could do... and I dont know how your system is set up is have either an Active Directory DNS Server on each lan segment and have them do zone transfers.

Another way is to have a WINS server on each side and have them synchronize information.

If you do have an AD DNS server on one side and can't get an AD DNS server on the other side you can set up a WINS Server on the other side and set up a PULL on the AD DNS Server to pull computer accounts from that WINS Server. (I do not recommend this way. It is way to easy to get a corrupt WINS Database via "poisoning")

Changing your subnet information will have no effect on netbios broadcasts. Setting up a server based push or pull of information is the only effective way of getting this information across the routers.... becasue it will come over the router in the form of data that is being requested rather than a broadcast

Edited by chilifrei64
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BeenThereB4

BeenThereB4

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A relatively simple solution would be to add the netbeui protocol (this is optional on the CD). Netbeui passes right thru routers and will connect both segments as long as file sharing is bound to it.

Edit: scratch that -- brain failure --- it's exactly the opposite

Edited by BeenThereB4
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chilifrei64

chilifrei64

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Netbeui, like NetBIOS, it does not support the routing of messages to other networks, so I don't think that will work. I was able to find a an article on microsoft.com which states how to allow the announcements across the router.

It states:

It is possible on some routers to enable the forwarding of NetBIOS broadcasts. This causes Computer Browser service to work as if all computers were connected to the same subnet. However, this practice propagates broadcast traffic and can create problems with browser elections. Microsoft recommends that you do not enable the forwarding of NetBIOS (UDP port 137 and UDP port 138) broadcast packets across routers.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechn...2671110e9f.mspx

down near the bottom

Edited by chilifrei64
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m8rk

m8rk

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I have a similar setup. I think it fit's the thrust of this thread but please tell me if you think I should start another.

I'd appreciate your guidance on what's the best way to have things setup.

Windows2000 AD PDC DHCP DNS Server [soon to be migrated to 2003].

I have 2 IP ranges to cater for the volume of devices on site. The router is out of my control on a 10Mbit fibre a mile away across town, and the local council [we're on their WAN] have just enabled the two ranges to talk across it.

It has been suggested that we have 2 contiguous IP ranges [we currently have 172.16.57.x & 172.15.140.x] and set up the subnet as mentioned above [255.255.254.0].

Helluvva problem before they did that - and I had to push them to look at that. I had all my main servers with a NIC on each range [secondary addresses on a single NIC doesn't quite cut it, as some things need it to be the primary address on the NIC to work, so I discovered.

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread patronu!

Edited by m8rk
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chilifrei64

chilifrei64

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Yeah.. I have been playing around with it and since you dont have a server on each side you will have to do static entries in the lmhost file in c:\windows\system32\drivers\etc\ and create static mappings of the computers to IP address mappings. Without a server for push pull or if you can get the port configuration that i stated above.. I dont see any other way.

As for you M8rk..... without stating everything all over again.. from what I gather from what you stated... your fix should be found in one of the above responses and if not there in the link in the post above your... or here it is again.... http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechn...2671110e9f.mspx

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patronu

patronu

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Please correct me if I'am wrong.

1. I need Windows Server 2003 to use WINS

2. If there are multiple subnets I need a server on each subnet.(It will work if I use Windows XP Pro as server on each subnet?)

3. I saw once a network with 4 subnets and Linux as server (the only server in that network;no server on each subnet). Is it linux better than Windows Server 2000/2003?

4. I will try to enable the forwarding of NetBIOS broadcasts. I think I know how to do it in Kerio Winroute. It is something like NAT?????

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