Newbie Help

[prathapml]

If the system is starting to get bother-some, why not re-install in the normal way, then get down to all this work in peace.

As far as that "cmd with 70% apps" and "runonceex.cmd creator" goes, I'd still say using someone else's creation will leave you clueless in the end about what to do (if you have problems with their creation). Most of us, did it on our own.... all these tools are recommended to be used once you are past what the guide recommends, till then stick to the guide itself.

[Ctwizzy]

I would reinstall w/o a uA but that would take me a lot of time and effort.

I would have to resetup all my apps, config files, settings. Which would take forever.

I run Tomcat and MySQL for webdev testing on my home machine. I was hoping that with a uA cd I could have it install those apps for me again, and then basically import my settings for these apps, and DB tables from MySQL so that I could save myself the bother of having to redo this.

The same goes for all of my apps:

Photoshop - plugins and brushes

Firefox - extensions, favorites and settings

etc etc

The uA cd is becoming more like a quick and easy way for me to resetup my pc with as little reconfiguration as possible. If i was to simply reformat for now, id still spend hours redoing my drivers, apps, tweaks etc.

Ok so your saying to use straight up batch files to do my silent installs, worry about the easy stuff later?

Im looking for an easy way to do this and still learn.

Batch -> runonceex -> GUI app seems like a lot of time wasted on 2 things I wont be using again in the future.

I guess this isnt possible.

Anyways a few Batch things that im working through, please correct me if im getting some of this wrong.

CLS

Clears any previous data on the command prompt

REM

This is a Remark, now is this the same as a comment?

@

Placed infront of commands that are not to be echoed to the console

@echo off

Commands aren't shown to the user, only what is in actual ECHO quotes

TITLE Windows XP SP2 - Unattended Installation

Sets title of the shell

ECHO.

echoes a blank line

ECHO message

Echoes to the user

DEL

Deletes a file or all files in a dir

"%systemroot%\

Gona say this one determines the root of the system i.e C:\

DEL "%systemroot%\Web\Wallpaper\*.jpg"

Deletes all jpg files in the web\wallpaper dir

start

starts a program

/wait

I read about wait and there is no wait in DOS or windows you have to create a wait batch file yourself with a time for waiting, is this right? or does it mean dont continue past this line until this line is done executing?

start /wait %systemdrive%\install\MSN\MsnMsgs.msi /qn

stars the file MsnMsgs.msi in the dir specified.

Now this is where things get hazy, ill research more later but for now if someone wants to help.

/qn

Silent Install for MSI installers?

/s

Silent Install for Wise installations?

/S

same as above or does case matter?

/v

Couldnt find anything on this yet, not sure what it does

REGEDIT /S %systemdrive%\install\RegTweaks.reg

Dont know a lot of these switches such as /s.

Guessing this one imports a RegTweaks.reg file into the registry

ECHO Deleting ASP.NET User Account created by .NET Framework 1.1...
net user aspnet /delete

Is this 2 seperate line or one? and what does this do?

ECHO Registering Flashget 1.4...
REGEDIT /S %systemdrive%\install\Applications\flashget\register.reg

So this is how it registers the product?

/silent[CODE]
Silent Install? Whats difference from other ways it was done above?

[CODE]/noreboot

Dont reboot?

ECHO Updating Symantec Antivirus Virus Definitions (May 14th 2003)...
COPY "%systemdrive%\install\Applications\sav\vd155c08.xdb.xdb" "%systemdrive%\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Symantec\Norton AntiVirus Corporate Edition\7.5\"

Copies from the cd to the file, this is how I woudl import config files and settings im assuming?

ECHO Restarting the PC in 1 minute...
shutdown.exe -r -f -t 60 -c "Windows XP will now restart in 1 minute, this will give enough time for the shortcuts to update and for the shell to fully load before its ready to restart!"

Fairly Self explanatory, but need some help with understanding the switches -r...

ECHO Deleting Temp Installation Files...
RD /S /Q %systemdrive%\Drivers
RD /S /Q %systemdrive%\install

Whats RD do and the switches that follow?

EXIT

Exits the file

If you have read this far thanks lol, I realize this is long.

Anyways if there is anything else I need to understand before I start coding for installs, let me know.

Thanks

[Ctwizzy]

For anyone who is interested I found a really interesting website on partitioning.

I said earlier that I wanted a good partitioning structure on my PC and this website provides a lot of answers. I Dont know where it would be appropriate and thought id throw it in here for anyone following this topic.

http://partition.radified.com/

Still be interested in finding out a good partitioning structure. Cant find clear answers on wether Program Files and My Docs should be on dif partitions or not, and why or why not.

prathapml - seeing as your the most active person in my thread I am curious to know how you set up your partitions. I know you said 3 per drive, but thats not very detailed

thanks

[prathapml]

I did not say worry about easy stuff later... Its actually like learning alphabets (A,B,C...) before constructing words. So starting with batch-files will have you understand what you're doing. Otherwise, if you use one of those tools, it will make things too easy, you might not understand what exactly is happening, and won't know to fix any troubles with it. And trust me, you got to be very lucky to have a perfect uA CD without any problems on the first try - you WILL have things not working and things weird, etc.... (in such cases, you better stick to batch-files since its easy to fix errors).

As for what you've posted above, it looks like you pretty much have a good idea of it. All of what you've posted about your batch things above is correct, except for slight corrections:

1. %systemroot% - that refers to path of System's root (OS folder), which turns out to be "C:\Windows".

2. %systemdrive% - now this is "C:\".

3. "start" will start the program you specified... and

start /wait

is for the purpose of

dont continue past this line until this line is done executing

(as you have correctly stated already)

The "/wait" that you see there is a switch of the start command.

4.

Is this 2 seperate line or one? and what does this do?

That's two lines, and that command is not needed if you did not already feel a need for it.

5.

So this is how it registers the product?

Yes, but that .reg file has to be created by you (containing your own name and serial key).

6. About the switches for "shutdown" and "RD" commands, I suggest you look it up. Run this command in the command prompt:

shutdown /?

Similarly,

rd /?

Do it similarly for every command that you want to know more about. The "slash what" switch (as I call it) will tell you what switches are usable with the command/program, and gives a short description of what exactly each switch is used for.

Hey, about the long post, may I give a suggestion?

Use numbering in posts, if it deals with more than a single question at once. That way, one of us can easily say some thing like (answering question number 4) and get down to answering it. Someone else would come along, and say (answering Q2) and answer it. I mean, its easier to keep track of, if you break down multiple questions with numbers.

Hoping this helps....

[prathapml]

I'd say having ProgramFiles and Docs&Settings on other partitions is really of no use in most cases. Even in your case, I'd say just keep those folders on C: itself.

REASON:

Let's say you install MS-Office. If ProgramFiles is re-located to D:\Programs (by using winnt.sif settings), then you have MSOffice sitting at (D:\Programs\MSoffice). So after this, let's say you re-installed winXP on C:\ now (and ProgramFiles folder still is re-located to D:\). First, this is going to cause file conflict with folders already existing there. Next, your MSoffice folder in there is useless now. Just having the MSoffice folder/files is no use, you need registry settings, files in system folders, and so on - all of which can only be done best by re-running the setup for MSOffice. This situation is the same for most other apps too. The bottom-line is, there's more problems that are possible, than benefits.

Same goes for pagefile too - just leave it on C: itself (all the crazy kids do tell you to move it to another partition, but it can cause mess-ups). I don't quite have the energy to type up *WHY* pagefile should be on C: itself, but believe me its better that way.

As a matter of fact, re-locating the Progfiles, Docs&Settings and pagefile to other places can be beneficial. But when? Its only beneficial if the destination partition is blank, and also is on a HD different from C:\ itself. This will give you a performance increase, since the load is not heavily placed on one HD alone. So can you really afford 4 hard-disks for this? (one each for windows main folder, Progfiles, Docs&Settings, and pagefile) And then, YET ANOTHER hard-disk for data.

Microsoft is not quite as dumb as we might like to think, the default settings exist for a reason.

Now to come to disks and partitioning....

1.

The larger and faster HD can be Primary Master. The second HD can be Secondary Master. The DVD/CD drives can be attached as primary/secondary slaves. Between CD/DVD drives, connect the optical drive that you use least, to the primary channel. In fact, you'll get best performance if the faster HD is primary master and no other drives are connected to that channel.

2.

I keep a max. of 7.5 GB partition for windows OS. This has to be a Primary partition at beginning of first HD. It should only be 7.5 GB because partitions larger than that are not bootable natively (the importance of that is realised if/when you install a second OS like linux on your PC).

3.

If you have a second HD, make a 2 GB partition at beginning of disk, to be used for page-file.

4.

All other partitions you create, can be created within "Extended" space as Logical partitions. I like to ensure that no partition is larger than 15 GB - simply because if I accidentally format it, or a virus hits any partition, it will only affect the 15 GB of that partition alone (I don't want everything to get wiped out at once ). Use NTFS file-system for all partitions (it will be faster). Ensure that atleast 3 partitions are made on each HD (think of it as 3 kingdoms - if one of the kings throws you out, atleast you can take shelter in some other kingdom).

5.

That's all, ensure that you don't save any data on C: - all required files/folders should be saved on any of the other partitions (which you had created for data, in point4 above). And if you have any temporary data you want to keep, you can easily keep it on C: itself (for example, songs that you don't really like, or shareware utilities that you downloaded and installed). No need to uninstall anything at all, because a re-format of C: would anyway wash out all this junk.

6.

So its done now. Next time you think that the system is slowing down, just take out your uA CD, re-format C: and start install. Come back to PC half-hour later to find all your data intact, all your reqd apps installed on C:, and one monster of a fast system.

[Ctwizzy]

Ok makes sence, except.

You say C: should be no bigger than 8 gigs.

Ok welll if C is only 8 gigs, where am I installing all my files?

Half of my games alone are a minimum 2gig installation.

Part 1 of this Post:

What I propose is this let me know what you think.

Drive1: 160 GIG HD

1 - 12-15GB - Windows XP-OS + My Docs + NORMAL Program Files

2 - 15-20GB - Installation of such things as games etc (bigger than 1 CD installations)

3 - 15-20GB - Data files

4 - 3GB - Temp Directory Consists of:

• System Temp Directory
  
• Web Browser Cache Directories
  
• Downloads
  
• Misc temp
  

This would be a transient partition, anything lost in this partition is of no real loss.

Web browsers write large numbers of small files to cache. These browser caches are beneficial, but play havoc with your drive fragmentation. I just let them do what they want on the temp D: drive and never defragment it. And defragmenting drive C: is vastly easier without this myriad of cache files.

Lots of other programs write temp files to the system temp directory as they work, and the same thing applies as with browser caches.

Reason why place downloads on this small drive? I do it because it forces me to do some file management, else the small partition will fill up. For example, I'm always downloading movies, songs, apps, games, trial software, images etc. When I find something I like and want to keep, I'll move it from Download to Data. Everything remaining in Download is destined for deletion when the partition is, say, 50% full. If I simply downloaded to Data then I would accumulate a whole lot of clutter that I really didn't want to keep, but forgot to delete. And it's really hard to identify what's what months later....

Wether or not Data should be on the primary HD or not I dont know, I am putting it there atm because this drive is 160GB and faster than my 80GB drive. Up for suggestions...

Ok so thats Drive1 done, now Drive2

Drive2: 80GB (SLAVE as I dont have longer IDE cables to make it its own master on other channel)

1 - ?GB - Music Files / Images (currently Music is 20Gigs, and pics are 700MB)

2 - ?GB - Movies (Currently 25Gigs) + Anime (Currently 12Gigs)

3 - ?GB - Ebooks (Currently 3.5Gigs)

4 - ?GB - Backups

5 - ?GB - Swapfile

backups would be for a C: drive image incase of problems where I need to get my stuff back asap not just use my uA cd.

Also backups of all apps I may need to reinstall etc

Part 2 of post

My problem is that I really do need to keep a majority of my movies/music/ebooks/images/anime/backups on the bigger disc as this is quite a lot of stuff. Putting this on the 80 is kind of a bad idea im thinking.

Also my disc 1 is looking kind of bare unless i make drive 2 strictly backups and a swapfile, and keep movies, images, anime and ebooks on the data partition.

Another possibility is to switch the drives around have windows be on the 80gig and drive2 be the 160gig. Problem with this is, both drives are IDE/ATA drives not SATA.

The 160gig has an 8MB cache, compared to the 80 having a 2, and putting the OS on the 160 would make it run faster. So now im a little confused.

Conclusion

I have come a long way and finally have a near finished idea of how my partitions are going to be, this makes making my uA cd much easier, no longer having to install to other directories.

I would appreciate feedback on my proposal.

Thanks to prathapml, you are a huge help to me.

As soon as I have this problem all cleared up Im going to start making my silent install batch script.

Thanks a ton.

[prathapml]

website on partitioning.

http://partition.radified.com/

Well, visited that site just now and it has lot of info. (oh, and it also says the "atleast 3 partitions" which I had said )

How you setup your partitions depends on your own usage patterns, so you know best about what's good for you. There is no "right" way or "wrong" way...

[Cartoonite]

Sheesh. I go away for just a few days and prathapml hijacks my support thread.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that you seem to be progressing nicely with this, Ctwizzy. It also seems that you are moving away from areas in which I can be of much assistance, unfortunately. Your major stumbling block, for lack of a better term, at the moment seems to be partitioning, a subject about which I already proclaimed my ignorance way back at the start of this thread. There is one thing that I noticed in reading through this thread, though, that may be worth pointing out.

I keep a max. of 7.5 GB partition for windows OS. This has to be a Primary partition at beginning of first HD. It should only be 7.5 GB because partitions larger than that are not bootable natively (the importance of that is realised if/when you install a second OS like linux on your PC).

1 - 12-15GB - Windows XP-OS + My Docs + NORMAL Program Files

2 - 15-20GB - Installation of such things as games etc (bigger than 1 CD installations)

It seems to me that making two partitions each 12-15GB in size serves no real purpose. Although I'm unsure exactly what prathapml is talking about when saying larger partitions are not "bootable natively," it seems to me that once you cross the 7.5GB limit, there is no reason to cap your system partition size. The games installed on the second partition would be no more useable after a reinstallation of Windows than would be any "regular" programs. They, too, have registry settings that need to be present in order to run properly. I have a friend who swears by installing games onto a second harddrive, but I don't believe installing them onto a second partition on the same harddrive would yield any kind of performance boost. You may get the best performance through installing the games on a partition on the second harddrive (as my friend swears he does), but, because in your particular case the second drive is much slower than the first, that may not hold true for you.

How you setup your partitions depends on your own usage patterns, so you know best about what's good for you. There is no "right" way or "wrong" way...

I agree whole heartedly with this statement (posted while I was typing this, solely to make me feel old and slow, I'm sure). Like so many other aspects computing, this seems to be as much a matter of personal preference as anything else. (Except for this bit about "at least 3 partitions." Maybe I'll need to look into this, see what all the fuss is about. )

Hope this helps. Keep up the good work. I figure at the rate you're going you'll be done long before I am, even if I did have a several-week head start.

[Mekrel]

From my exerience you want one drive with your widows on,

One drive with your installs and documents (together as this drive will get fragmented alot due to use of the files)

and another drive for page file (make sure this is your heighest performance drive).

I have:

160gb Sata :

2 Partitions C:\ D:\ with C: for operating system and D:\ for random stuff, mainly my UA system files for the CD's

36GB Raptor Sata disk

F:\ Backup + docs, G:\Pagefile E:\ Installs.

[Ctwizzy]

The partitioning is not for a system performance boost.

Its mainly for keeping it well organized and free from fragmentation and hence slowing down. The majority of Windows slow downs that occur over time and hence force me to format every x months is because your system files are all over your disc. If i limit my OS + applications + My Docs on C at the front of the disc, those files which arent going to change much wont get fragmented as bad. And keeping them at the front means the disc head wont have to move much to grab the constantly used system files.

Cartoonite I suggest you read that link I posted above. A really informative site for reasons for partitioning.

And no I have not strayed from needing your help lol. I have my partitioning problem basically done. Going to be working on my silent install batch file soon.

I know my partition setup is what works best for me, but I was wondering if people had opinions on the way I plan on doing it. I looking to create a decent setup and peoples opinions can help.

Reason I have games and such on a dif partition is that I install games and uninstall games much more than I do programs. Plus I want to keep the system partition small, for defragmenting reasons. making my system partition 50gigs + is basically what I have now. Keeping it small means I know whats on it and can keep it fast. Plus I dont care if games make registry edits also, ill wipe the games drive when I do my uA installation. I never planned on doing silent installs of games. So this is no biggy.

If anyone has the time I would still appreciate advice on my partition plan. Thanks

[prathapml]

I still say keep your C: to be just 7.5 gig, and whatever heavy installs you want to do (like games, or very big apps), do those on some other partition which you have designated for the purpose.

The reason is, systemdrive should not exceed natively bootable limits. And then, you should also have your C: small enough to keep it fast (and have atleast 2-3 GB free space on C: at any point of time).

[Incroyable HULK]

The official recommendation of Microsoft on the partitioning matter is the following:

EVERYTHING ON C:\ Why? Here are some simple reasons:

1) End Users get confused by having multiple partitions

2) End Users get a false sense of "security" thinking they have multiple drive

3) Easier to clone the hard drive (for migration to a bigger drive I suppose...)

etc...

In my organisation we are using the following scheme (with current 120Gb drives)

20Gb - C:\Windows

20Gb - D:\Program Files

20Gb - E:\Documents and Settings

55Gb - T:\ (Stand for Temporary... storage but no backup)

So this way all we have to care about is to get a backup of the E:\ drive...

Now, the only question remaining for me is:

All primary partitions or 1 primary and 1 extended (with 3 logical) partition?

Every time I use Acronis Disk Director or Partition Magic, they want me to do the SECOND option... but this is giving me headeache when I want to resize the drive later on...

[Ctwizzy]

Use FDISK to set your partitions up. The link I posted above has an awesome link for tutorials using FDISK.

Good luck. im still going to have to plan my layout.

Who wuda thought getting my new setup ready would take so much effort

[Black_Shadow]

If I can add my 2 cents here... I ATTEMPTED to do the same thing That CT wizzy wants to do... as far as the partitioning I've been partitioning my 2 drives as such for years

C: 10 Gig (Primary master IDE and 40 Gig HDD partition 1)-Windows

D:20 Gig (Secondayr Master IDE and 20 Gig HDD partitioned 100%)-backup

E:10 Gig (primary master IDE 40 Gig partition partition 2) Games

F:20 Gig (primary master IDE 40 Gig partition 3)-Music

The only Problem *I* have had with the uA install is that it installs EVERY time to the D drive and leaves C totally blank.

I wrote a thread about this a few days ago and had very few responses. I've read everything I can get my hands on on how to fix this and Still cant come up with anything except Run a script in winnt.bat to have Winnt.exe run the /t switch to Force XP to install to the C drive...

CTwizzy, Hopefully your uA Cd Goes better than mine.

Thanx

[Ctwizzy]

Thanks BlackShadow, me too

Prathapml - I would like to see some evidence that C: should not be bigger than 7.5GB. I have researched on google for like 20 mins and found nothing of that nature.

I honestly dont understand how I can fit everything on C: if its only 7.5GB, countless websites on the net say to make it 10-15.

Ok so I know that a drive is to never go higher than 75% full if possible, so thats 5.6GB of space I can use. Windows takes how much? I thought like 2GB-3GB, then throw on my apps. Were pushing it here, leaving no room to add apps in the future, thus crippling my system.

I would like some supporting evidence.

Also if anyone knows of a forum dedicated to such things as partitioning I would appreciate a link.

Thanks!