Unattended Website Additions

[Vadikan]

Speaking of the offline navigation. The site map may partially solve the problem. It's not really a menu, but still the list of all pages (with links) in an organized order.

[cyberthug]

maybe a seperate section, like top of the list, or under "totally clueless"...

have a small tutorial on VMware,MS virtual machine or others that people can use, before starting their UXPCD.

[prathapml]

now, with the next page idea, you're assuming it's all gonna be step by step

Yep, for a first-timer, unattended *IS* step-by-step. (categorised, by pages, etc.)

The idea of sitemap is good, but it still does not fulfil the purpose I want. It can't be too difficult actually, to have the JS-based menu, as well as "next page" thingies on each page. (I hope )

Hmm....

Noticed another modification needed.

http://unattended.msfn.org/xp/space_saving_tips.htm

In there, the words for LANG is not clear (ambiguous and open to interpretation). It really should have these words (decision is upto you, whether to add these words, or replace the old words with this):

If you have US English CD of windows, and do not use any languages/keymaps other than english, you can safely delete the LANG folder as well.

I had to think for a few minutes to get the meaning of what is currently there, and whether I could delete it *WITH NO PROBLEMS*. The above words will be more helpful to put it beyond doubt.

[prathapml]

Hear me! Hear me!

In all of this, we have probably over-looked the most important tutorial which could have made the guide a comprehensive one.

I think its a major handicap, that msfn's slip-streaming guide is in one place and uA in another. Why not start from scratch? Giving instructions to start from the base SP0 CD, to slip-stream into it, then to go further with the current uA guide.

Summary: Take the content of the current Universal Windows Slipstreaming and Bootable CD Guide and put it up as the starting page prior to uA operations.

[Vadikan]

prathapml

I don't see why the universal slipstreaming guide is needed when the service pack 2 integration can be covered with just one command (I'm sure you know it ;-) Burning CD is the last touch, and the current page with two cmd files is still ok. In addition, the major guide describes mostly manual procedures, and I'd like that way better. Throwing in the nLite utility is not necessary for the manual guide. At least, on such an early stage. Nothing personal against nLite.

[Alanoll]

well, I liked the idea of the two sides site. Beginners and Advanced. I'm thinking of having three, Beginners, Advanced, Graduate or something along those lines. The beginners I'm thinking will cover everything from copying the CD to the harddrive, slipstreaming, and creating the basic WINNT.SIF file.

Advancded will then begin the addition of drivers and applications with standard batch commands. Graduate would then cover the customizing side (kernels visual styles winntbbu and the likes) the removing (just allowing a page for slimming the into, but not really going into it) and hacked files. I personally believe that if you can't master the first two stages, you have no need to use hacked files because the first two tell me you know what you're doing.

I'll put together a site map as well, shouldn't be too hard. I'm not sure about the "Next Page" idea (sorry prathapml) simply because the majority of the site, shouldn't even follow that type of floor plan. The Beginners should, but the Advanced there really is not "follow the golden brick road" approach. It's whatever order you want, and what you want to do.

I'm still unsure of how to do the menu's, simply because of the three branches of the site. As for the database, the site is SQL compatible, but I'll need to read over my Christmas break to actually get it up and running, primarily because it'd be an almost forum type thing to get things inputted. xper is looking into creating the database and a few scripts.

I'm assuming when creating this, I should make it as cross platform as possible yes? IE, FireFox, and what others? I plan to run it through the W3C checker for verification, but as we all know, HTML4 is NOT fully supported across all platforms and implemented the same.

[Vadikan]

I'm still unsure of how to do the menu's, simply because of the three branches of the site.

What's the problem? Make the top menu according to the branches. E.g.: Home, Beginners, Advanced, Experts, Help, Forums. Then Beginners would include:

Start

Slipstreaming

Windows Updates

OEM Folders

Answer file

--winnt.sif

--winnt.sif parameters

Overview of the batch files

Registry tweaks

Finalising CD

For advanced would be

Drivers

Applications

--GuiRunOnce

--RunOnceEx

--RunOnceEx from CD

and so on...

C'mon people, suggest the layouts

[Alanoll]

I have only three problems with your above layout so far, and it's probally just me categorizing differently.

I would put the overiew of batchfiles and registry tweaks into the advanced section. the beginners I just want them to get a CD with BASIC unattended functionality meaning no extras. Now this would contradict the Hotfixes being applied, but I figure since we're already adding the service pack, might as well do the hotfixes in one go as well. (probally two seperate pages on this as well, SP1 hotfixes [some still use it], the new post-sp2 hotfixes and using the basic SVCPACK.INF method described in the knowledge base article, and the /integrate switch)

I'm not even planning on going into mentioning the $OEM$ folders. Get the CD automation the way they like, then add adding users and tweaks and applications and drivers and all the good stuff.

The menu problem wasn't really deciding how to do it, but more of would it actually work and people use it. For some odd reason, people don't seem to see SUBMENU's.

[prathapml]

I liked the definition of slip-stream here - someone's blog:

You create a new setup CD that includes all the patches and updates right in the setup files, so you can create a new Windows installation that won't need hours of downloading and installing patches and updates to be made current. Instead, it will be fully current from the start.

No, not needed to add it to the site (I just mentioned it, that's all). If it sounds simple or good, then add it.

[Vadikan]

I'm not even planning on going into mentioning the $OEM$ folders. Get the CD automation the way they like, then add adding users and tweaks and applications and drivers and all the good stuff.

Ok, makes sense. It can go to the Advanced section. I agree that slipstreaming and hotfixes should go to the beginners section anyway, if we define it as a guide for an up-to-date unattended CD. Having such a CD is the major goal of the unattended installation. Confirmed by prathapml's quote above

For some odd reason, people don't seem to see SUBMENU's.

Mmmm... I've never thought of it. Perhaps, tooltips popping up on the menu elements could help a bit. On the other hand, working on them takes some time and not really the priority task.

[prathapml]

@Alanoll

I agree that the beginner should not muck around with hotfixes. As you said - slip-stream, winnt.sif and GO!

Never mind the break-up of posts below - there's simply too much content to put all in one post and still make sense. Now, here comes suggestions below, numbered.

01.

A slight change needed in drivers page. I think ppl should have their drivers at "$OEM$\$$\PnPdrvrs\" path. That way, the drivers is not exposed at root of C: drive, and you don't need to delete it. So you can keep it to be used when you add more drivers. At the end of setup, instead of deleting the additional drivers, do this instead:

attrib +h %systemroot%\PnPdrvrs

And in the drivers page, add a link to bashrat's forum sticky for device-driver packs.

02.

In the "graduate" section of the guide, say that the below is purely for educational purposes, and add the info found on this page: http://www.thetechguide.com/howto/setuppini.html

We have enough number of new members flowing in, who have OEM disks, and borrow retail disks. Now is it immoral, is a different question, but fact is obviously their OEM key don't work with the retail disk. Now if the guide can enable them to stay on the correct side of the law (by converting the retail disk to OEM, or upgrade to normal) - why not.

03.

Add a link to multi-boot guide (as a logical next-step) at the end of "graduate" level of uA guide.

04.

On Office XP/2003 advanced page, link to "Office Shrink" forum page.

05.

More info about runonceEX and how to run it in 2 stages using the "rundll32 -----" command to trigger its execution.

06.

Give example of how to run an INF

setupapi,InstallHinfSection DefaultInstall 132 "%ProgramFiles%\Maxthon\maxthon.inf"

07.

Make oobeinfo.ini to be the recommended method of users creation for beginners.

08.

The advanced users might like a link and usage-description of the netuser.exe (which is used for security, to rename Administrator account).

09.

The registry tweaks page should not be for beginners - only for advanced. And put a link on that page, to the forum thread for regtweaks (I'll soon consolidate regtweaks into a new, clean thread).

10.

Have the "QuickLaunch bar enabled" tweak in the default regtweaks.reg (towards the end of file) - dammit, we're getting asked about it too many times.

11.

Give scope for a plugin for running more batch-files - enables per-machine customised installs, and cuts down the need for you to frequently-rebuild your CD.

12.

In tips section, for advanced users on XP pro - preset the swap file to a constant (example: 256 MB) on the systemdrive. This will only work if run from a CMD prompt or batch-file at first-logon (but not prior to that):

cscript //nologo //B //T:600 %systemroot%\system32\pagefileconfig.vbs /change /I 256 /M 256 /VO *

more is coming

[prathapml]

13.

Having the "SendTo>> Notepad" menu using $Docs.

14.

Rename your network interface to have a more intuitive name:

netsh interface set interface name="Local Area Connection" newname="Uplink to BigBro"

15.

The cleanup section can include

regsvr32 /u /s mydocs.dll

To remove the irritant MyPics/MyVids/My---- series of folders forcibly re-creating themselves even after you delete them.

16.

And then, just after the unnecessary files/folders are deleted in cleanup (and before the final command to reboot), this command should be recommended as a tip:

defrag c: -f -v

Have you ever noticed that big chunks of files are created and deleted during a uA install? For a home user or 3D gamer, the final defrag before reboot is a boon to have everything in perfect order by the end of the uA.

17.

Tell them how to pre-set a chosen user-icon:

copy /Y %SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\User Account Pictures\Default Pictures\astronaut.bmp %SystemDrive%\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\User Account Pictures\MYNAME.bmp

Important here, is to remember that GIF/PNG/JPG images won't do - you have to have BMP of specified size (or suffer an auto-resize).

18.

security stuff for cleanup.cmd:

REM de-activating known hostile file types for security purposes
assoc .eml=txtfile
.iss
.log
.sif
.diz
.nfo
.sfv
.... and lots more extensions (I'll post 'em all if you find the idea good)

I find it so **** idiotic, that people go searching for DIZ and NFO viewers, when they can just as well associate it to notepad (with above command) and be happy with no complication.

19.

Include a section for IE pre-configuration tweaks.

The average user knows nothing about what Registry Tweaks is - and that everything is possible from there. He just knows what something is when he sees it being described by what it does - and its upto the guide-maker to give grouped-by-task options (as indeed MS has done with XP).

20.

Usage of HOSTS file to block out porn/scam/pop-ups. (just hope though, that your users won't go take a look at the hosts file and learn *PRECISELY* which are the juiciest sites to visit, lol)

You can put the HOSTS somewhere on your CD and use batch-files to replace the original with your customized one.

21.

More security stuff:

How to pre-configure your windows firewall to the way you like it, using .REG - it won't bug you again once its configured!

21.

Please have a suggestion in the modding (uxtheme, sfc_os) section of guide, saying that you should keep the changes you make to I386 as minimal as possible and always try to do things via $OEM$ where feasible. If you do make changes in that folder, list it down somewhere. Reasons are:

1. You have less work to do, when the next SP or hotfix comes round.

2. You can track things better - to trouble-shoot, or to ask for help on the forum.

22.

Then, an idea in "graduate" level's regtweaks page -

don't run all of your regtweaks at cmdlines.txt;

run only what is for HKCU/all-users

I say this bcos:

1. You know some settings won't "stick" at that point, so keep your dealings at that point minimal.

2. Having it that way gives some nice possibilities (I can have one setting for all other users, and apply contradicting .REG for the main/admin account on the system). I use that for blocking access to control-panel and hidden/system files for all users except my primary account.

23.

In some page for the drivers (for "graduate" users or whatever) - discuss the concept of compressing all drivers into 7zip archive then extracting it just before device detection

   DetachedProgram="%systemroot%\PnPdrvrs.exe"
    Arguments="-y /q /r:n"

Remember since not too many switches are possible at that point, the "-o" switch for 7zip to specify location to extract to, is not specifiable. Therefore you should place PnPdrvrs.exe in "$OEM$\$$\" itself, and delete it from cleanup.cmd.

24.

For ATi gfx and nvMixer, the usage of the below command (example) to selectively install the utility:

if exist %systemroot%\system32\nvaudio.nvu start %systemroot%\PnPdrvrs\nF\AudioUtl\Setup.exe -s

This particular one is do-able not before first-logon - is only possible at GUIrunOnce or later.

more coming

[prathapml]

I'm using color below to differentiate between the sections/pages.

One good thing to do, would be get 'em familiar with the term "uA".

Refer to the word by its full-form once, and then in the rest of the guide call "unattended" as "uA". Otherwise they just don't understand the short-form. And its a waste of time on the forum to be typing and explaining to each new person.

Other than that, apps silent install pages need a major update (i.e., old switches still works. Just update the version numbers ). And then, these apps switches can be added:

latest flash player v7 (/s)

Opera (/s) (and copy OUsr600.dat as license file)

CPU-Idle Extreme 7 (/S)

TweakNow PowerPack 2005 (/VERYSILENT /SP-)

UltraISO 7.25 MediaEdition (/VERYSILENT /SP-)

K-Lite revolution 2.6 (/VERYSILENT /SP-)

shareaza 2.1 (/silent)

MSN Messenger Plus! 3.40 (/SilentInstallNoSponsor)

winamp - link to alanoll's own MSI

For the Sun JRE, dotNET fw and AcroRead6 - link to ryanvm's repacked installers

moz, ff, tb, maxthon - link to re-packed MSI (or link to my forum post for this, prolly - since anyway lot of changes to installer is needed, for it to work).

All these are a pretty small number of apps (the more important of the lot). Having the new apps included in switches is obviously not out of stake for *ME* as I already have all of it done, and so do you - the recommendation is for the sake of others' benefit. Whatever more you add to the SQL (db of switches) you're thinking of, please get it off the ground with the above apps atleast, in the guide itself. (after that, take all the time you want for the SQL)

And then some additions to the Installer-types pages (where it talks of WISE/inno/MSI/InstallShield):

1.

Many newer applications come packaged in MSI installers. When you install it, you'd like it to progress smoothly with no unexpected turns. That objective is now possible with MSIs - just use the "/QB-!" switch.

That literally "id***-proof"s the install for that program atleast. What it does is to:

a. install in quiet mode

b. show a progress bar

c. suppress any error-boxes (if it fails, it will fail silently)

d. and the exclamation mark at the end will remove the "Cancel" button from the installation dialog so that no one can possibly meddle with your install.

So that's actually perfectly what we've always wanted - all that anyone monitoring your install can do, is to watch as the progress-bar is displayed.

give a link to MSI switches info

2.

The same MSI installer also opens a whole new vista for those needing to deal with it. If you come across any major app, you've probably found yourself wanting the install to finish quicker and use less disk-space. In such cases you can use the Administrative Install-Point (AIP) method - also called as a server image or network-install.

And then some app-installers are simply too fidgety with switches - even then AIP comes to the rescue. This is how to do it:

a. First we need to make the AIP.

b. So you can either run the original installer with a switch of "/A" to get it to walk you through the process of making an AIP.

c. Or in some cases you can start the original installer in the normal way (double-click) and look in your %Temp% folders for the newly-extracted MSI (and associated folders/files too).

d. So now you have an AIP which you can copy away to a folder anywhere (and then either put it on your uA CD or do what's described in "Space Starved tips").

3.

Then there are a whole lot of half-baked installers out there, that run through the installation and then startup the program that was just installed. What happens with these, is that the actual install-process itself can be made "silent" through switches, but they spoil our unattended endeavour of smoothly installing one program after another, by starting up the program they install. In such cases, the programs that open, can be "killed" so that the install will proceed without hindrance.

You need - pskill. Put the EXE extracted from the download in "$OEM$\$$\System32" so that you can call it from commands.

Now an example of how it works:

start /wait %whateverpath%\alanollchooses\appinstallname.exe /S
pskill appname.exe

That will install Appname, and when it attempts to start for its first-run to show itself to you, the next command is executed. That next command will kill the running program whose name you've specified (doing this is similar to "End Task").

----

Now, here we have some tips of experience for you:

Ensure that your installer and program's filenames is different from each other. That is, ensure that if your program's name (which is to be killed) is winamp.exe, then your installer for the same is named something else (like WA_install.exe or something). Otherwise unplanned-for events can happen.

4.

Lastly there's some programs whose installer is just not suitable (for unattending). With such programs you can use the direct copy method.

This method is suitable when the following conditions are satisfied:

a. The programs themselves run fine with just the set of files that you find was installed in its folder (normally in ProgramFiles).

b. The program does not need any registry keys to be modified to notify the system that it "exists".

c. The installer does not put files in any folder other than its own installation folder.

d. The main thumb-rule here probably is that if the application is small it can do with the "direct copy". Big apps like MS-Office, Photoshop, etc. are unsuited to this method.

So once you have concluded that an app is good for the direct copy method, here's how to do it:

a. Install the program in the normal way (and note where it installs its files).

b. You can run it and configure it to how you want (since these settings will become the new defaults).

c. Go into the installed folder (normally in %ProgramFiles%), and copy away the entire folder.

d. Go to the start-menu and copy away the shortcuts for the program.

e. You can now put the program folder (which you copied away in step C) in "$OEM$\$Progs\YourFolderName" - it will be there after your next install from your uA disk.

f. Put the shortcuts here on the uA disk - "$OEM$\$Docs\All Users\Start Menu\Programs\AppName" (you should change the file-paths in the shortcuts/links to point to system variables - i.e., %ProgramFiles% instead of "C:\Program Files").

g. That's it - your app looks just like it was installed.

Tips for Space-starved users:

You'll find that your 700 MB CD is just not sufficient for holding all the programs you'd like to install unattendedly. If you find yourself in that position, it is the direct-copy method and AIP method that you should favour the most for cutting-down on the space used on CD. You can use WinRAR/7zip to create a compressed, silent, self-extracting archive for those 2 methods. In the case of AIPs, setup your silent archive to extract to "%SystemDrive%\install\Applications" path, and then from that point onwards, your batch files should go onwards to run the setup silently. In the case of "direct copy" method, you can compress the installed folder, and make it silently extract to "%ProgramFiles" (if you do this, no need to use the $Progs step mentioned in direct-copy).

At this point have a short explanation of what SFX really is/means, with screenshots for winrar and 7zip (make it for TOTALLY silent) archives with parameters for extracting to defined paths.

5. If none of the methods suit your app, then you need to "rebuild" your app's installer. Download InstallRite and ask it to monitor your system when the program is installing. You will then have a new installer which installs totally silent.

Grrr..... ended up spending too much time just on typing this (these posts better be worth the time!). Please don't skip over any of the multitude of suggestions here. My longest ever posts here (even got me hungry halfway through, lol). I don't know if you'd really feel it worth the time to add-in all these things to advanced. But my gut-feeling says that putting up all this in the baseline-reference guide (though in super-advanced section) will improve the general standard of uA setups, plus bring more people and ideas that take-off from there. I think implementing all of the above will take us to a new level altogether (that of a premium, all-in-one-place site) - orienting towards even professionals. Some of the above ideas might make you think that it involves too much tying-in with forum pages - but that's the idea (we want ppl to take a look inside forum as well, instead of just a shallow skimming of the guide.

If any disputes, I'm on messenger. I don't need more post-count thru _disputing_

I'm not gonna let you off easily, lol - the above additions demand a lot of effort. I'm not a graphics whiz - but willing to help if you need me to write any pages.

[prathapml]

Finally, a conclusion of the guide, with screenshots of how the final result looks.

Yes, its meant for "intermediate home users" but still, if one knows what to expect, its easier than pursuing an abstract dream.

A few shots - like one at CD-boot, one at text-mode, one at device detection, one at T-12, and the final desktop look (with all installed) and more would be good too. Fact is, many of those who come to the site haven't done a windows install before, in their life (or they are familiar with older versions). This will put in yet another angle to the guide - of a visual walk-through of the uA install process. As an aside, the multi-boot guide could do with some screenshots too (initially it did have scrshots, I can send it if you want).

The aim here basically, is a comprehensive guide... A to Z!

Ever taken a look at this site? http://unattended.sourceforge.net

(don't let the simple layout of the home-page fool you, its a wonderful resource - and the site's mailing-lists has excellent discussion of relevant things)

Well, we wanna beat it.

[prathapml]

I think its also pertinent to include in the guide, a page about activation - about how to copy away and restore wpa.dbl