Windows 10 Sun Valley thoughts and opinions

[sunryze]

Sun Valley is the codename of the 21H2 release of Windows 10 and it seems like it is going to be a fairly big release considering they are pushing the release around 18 months after the last major release, 20H1. 20H2 and 21H1 will be minor enablement packages as well, which gives MS more time to develop for 21H2. If MSFT can make enablement packages more feature inclusive and less intrusive, that would be a big step in having to "reinstall" our operating system every time there is a major release, unlike our 5 year old installs of Windows XP, Vista and 7 from back in the day. Making feature updates optional was a good first step.

According to many sources Microsoft made a job posting back in January looking for Windows Core User Experience team members, which from what I believe is enhancing legacy apps and mainly the Windows 10 UI, one of the most criticized modules of Windows 10. We can see that they are re-designing many legacy functions that have not changed since the RTM release or older. The new UI style seems to take a lot of notes from Apple's book with their release of macOS Big Sur. If I was to assume, Windows 10 would sort of look like a modernized Windows Vista and 7. I read that Microsoft is also making two start menu styles, the classic 20H2 one and a more modern and redesigned one. They also claimed that "Windows is BACK" not really meaning much I suppose.

My opinions?

If Microsoft can fix the legacy components of the UI and actually make it less intrusive and more flexible towards the user, it would really help. As well as the major amount of unknown bugs and confusing decisions. I really hope the UWP Settings gets changed too. I do miss the classic Keyboard and Mouse type of design last used in Windows 7 but I also do hope that they can keep those users in mind. I heard from a source that power users will be able to uninstall / remove / disable more Windows 10 apps and features, making it a leaner and faster OS. Basically, I really hope that Sun Valley, which seems to be a pretty large release, will become notable in fixing Windows 10. Not betting on it though, it could be a flop and we are left with the same unusable Windows 10.

What do you think on the changes? It is too early to make major assumptions without any builds available that include the new UI as well as us being around 4 months until we get there hopefully. Do you think that MSFT saying that "Windows is back" really means anything?

[Sergiaws]

Hmmm, I can't think that Microsoft will reduce Windows 10's bloatware. But I'm starting to think that Microsoft will bring some Windows XP/7 customization functions. I'm thinking that Windows 10 21h2 can add Windows 10 X sounds. Here are a linc:

 

 

https://winsound

I believe that if they tell that Windows will come back, they are talking about great features like changes on Windows 10's interface. And I'm sure that they want to bring Windows 10 X to normal Windows 10.

I suggest you to search more about Windows 10 X, try it if you can and tell us your experience. If Windows 10 X is usable and don't have a lot of problems (excepting that you can't use Win32 apps), Windows 10 21h2 can be a "good" Windows version!

[sunryze]

I did try out Windows 10X in a virtual machine and what I got out of it was most of it was mainly UI changes. It was pretty nice having the UI being a little simpler and more rounded off as well as legacy win32 functions and menus FINALLY being changed or moved somewhere else. The action center is really nice for quick settings changes (so much better than the disaster of the Windows 10 one) and the icons I believe are better fit and updated. The way that the drives are sorted are better as well, kind of.

What is a little concerning is where customization is. There aren't much built in (other than light or dark theme) and you really are kind of forced to use the UI that you are given, except for the rumor of two start menus in 21H2. Still too early to get the desktop experience but if I was to hope, it seems like its a similar development track like the differences between XP and Vista, but so far without a reset. Seeing a lot of Windows functions changing over time and menus getting reworked, as well as a fair amount of core experiences changing too. Really feels like an actual "Technical Preview" hype now.

They are definitely inspired by the work that Apple put towards Big Sur as I said. They are envious of their ecosystem, the simple updates, fast adoption rates and proprietary software. I will definitely say there will be people who think that 21H2 is not going to be a good change, but there will also be people who think otherwise. With how Windows 10X looks, this new update could just be a similar difference between Windows 8.0 and 8.1, minor UI changes but overall useful for the design of the OS.

Windows 10 has barely changed over the last 5 years which is why I have hope that this update will help with the UI experience. This is just my opinion and first thoughts about it though, it would be interesting to see how other users here feel about the change, since it is hopefully going to be one of the largest feature updates since the RTM release. We have roughly 8 months until the estimated release, and as I said around 4 months until the first insider previews, but we'll see. The new window animations from opening + closing in the latest insider looks really sleek.

Still won't change the fact that UWP is a failing project.

[vinifera]

no graphical polishing will help this sinking ship

 

[sunryze]

I would say the sinking ship is because of the horrible UI choices. Windows 10 deep down at the core (kernel) is miles ahead of Windows 7.

[Sergiaws]

I'm wondering how Windows 10 x (and probably Sun valley) works with sound events. When I downloaded Windows 10 x sounds I couldn't see error and exclamation and error sounds. There just boot up sound, low battery sound, default sound and some beeps and notification sounds. I want to apply that sound scheme to Windows 8.1 but I don't how because I can't try Windows 10 x. Can anyone create a themepack or explain what sound use Windows 10 x with the following events: asterisk, critical stop and exclamation.

[sunryze]

I would assume that the more angry beeps are for critical error. Anything else I would put in asterisk and exclamation. Those two use Windows Background on 10, while critical error uses Windows Foreground.

[Sergiaws]

That's true. The thin is that Windows 10 X don't have Windows Background and Windows Foreground. The beeps that I mentioned can break your head if you play music with high sound volume, so I can't imagine these beeps as asterisc sound or critical stop sounds. I'll probably asume that these sound events dissapeared completely from Windows 10 X or these events use the default Windows 10 X sound. It'll be clarified when someone will try Windows 10 X.

[sunryze]

They could also not be finalized yet, could just be a development scheme.

[vinifera]

kernel is not OS noodle head

 

[ceo54]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:18 PM, Tonny52 said:

I would say the sinking ship is because of the horrible UI choices. Windows 10 deep down at the core (kernel) is miles ahead of Windows 7.

Kernel itself is not a sole determining factor. Windows 10 is a mobile operating system which can't decide if it wants to target the amateur android "click here and it will happen" users or more advanced PC users. It's trying to be two things at once. Now only that it doesn't give users the kind of control Windows 7 use to give it's users.  The Settings app is a disaster. Half of the time, I can't remember if a certain tweak is in settings o in control panel and if it's in settings then exactly where. There are things fundamentally wrong with Windows 10, for example not allowing the users to sign in without a password etc and when it's broken at the root, no amount of UI improvement can fix it. Microsoft use to do things like a Pro, that's what made them the masters of OS market. Windows 10 doesn't feel like their product. It feels like the product of their support staff (cooks, janitors etc) with controlling and daddy issues.

I haven't upgraded from my 8.1 yet because there's just too much wrong ith Windows 10 that hamper drastically with my workflow. Though having said that I'll give the Enterprise edition a try only if they do something to the start menu.

And BTW, where is the promised Windows 10 lite version for low end PC's ?? or was it just sugar promise to get people hooked to Windows 10 ? Amazing what greed can transform you into.

[sunryze]

1 minute ago, ceo54 said:

And BTW, where is the promised Windows 10 lite version for low end PC's ?? or was it just sugar promise to get people hooked to Windows 10 ? Amazing what greed can transform you into.

S mode. We expected too much.

[ceo54]

Yes indeed. Is there any further news on that ?

[sunryze]

Well, S mode still exists in 10 but its no longer a special edition. It's a switch you can choose when making a WIM. Some manufacturers put Windows 10 in S Mode on the most odd hardware. Brother got a new laptop recently with a Ryzen 5 3450U. Came in S mode, but luckily MSFT lets you upgrade it to Home for free. Usually they are called "Windows 10 Home in S mode". Imagine it being named "Windows 10 Pro for Workstations in S mode". What's next? everything just has a "Pro" slapped on top of it. iPhone 12 Pro Max, Google Pixel 4 5G, Remember when names were simple? Nexus 5. Google Pixel. iPhone 4S. Just, agh.

[ceo54]

Talking about the Start Menu, how hard it is to get it right in Windows 10 argghhhh!!! Where are all the shortcut's located ?? How to remove, bring back certain items ? How to create folders ? How to remove single items from folders like uninstallers etc to keep it clean ? How to merge the shortcuts in one folder???

It wasn't even so hard in Windows 7 Menu upon which this Windows 10 menu supposedly is based on. Windows 8.1 is magically simple and elegant. They better get their mojo back and design something as they use to do or I'm never upgrading not even after 2023.

I'm thinking if all the garbage is still there, the S mode won't do any good. The lite version is not lite by any means unless it occupies less and less HDD  space, that's how it boots fast and runs fast. Better to employ NTLite than to depend on Microsoft for anything these days.