Windows 10 search process uses almost double the RAM of Winamp

[NoelC]

I do understand, and I'm really WITH you both.  All what I'm suggesting is to not let it get to you.  The world is what it is, and maybe just a little of what we make of it.  We're all complex creatures.

 

Surely I prefer quality.  I would rather pay for a polished, robust product than one that's not.  However, if it's up to me to fill some dents, paint, and put some polish on, it's no different than my car.  It's doable and at the end of the day I have a shiny sports car. 

 

Doing good system integration is more powerful and important than most people realize.

 

To say that the quality of OSs is down since the 1990s isn't reasonable.  The kernel of Windows has been getting better, even if you consider just Vax/VMS NT.  Maybe not at every single update, and maybe not if you compare with the era that ended in the 1980s, that's a different story, based on different economics.

 

To bring up WFWG...  Just silly.  It was a toy (that I polished and ran an entire engineering department on).  It was an enabler in its day.  That day is gone.

 

The dawning of the PC era brought about a significant shift in cost - and loss of rigor - from computer hardware and software.  Did/does it HAVE to be bug-ridden?  No.  COULD it have been / be done better?  Sure.

 

Did we ENJOY paying only a few bucks for slightly buggy software with hundreds or thousands of man-years of development time?  You betcha.

 

Windows 8.1 (and before it 7) are operating systems for the computers I dreamed about using my entire career.  I don't have ANY problems with reliability.  My systems work.  Of course there are parts that would irk me if I used them - but I don't choose to do so.  Instead I optimize ways to use them that work.  In short, I make the best of it.

 

I sound as if I'm arguing FOR the loss of rigor in engineering, the loss of quality.  I'm not.  But the world is what it is, and I don't sell modern systems short.  There are parts of them that actually work, and can provide pleasure when used. 

 

During pre-releases I complain and I provide all the feedback I can.  In the end they make whatever they make.  They always do.  I could personally do it a lot better - if I had 100 years and the funding to work on it.  But none of us do.

 

Looking forward, there will be parts of Win 10 that actually work.  Parts that might even provide good value.  It's up to us to coax them out and exploit them for all we can.  It might be that for individual needs Win 10 won't be better than 7 or XP.  But there will come a time when what's required to run those old systems will be so much more expensive that the return on investment will go negative.

 

Make no mistake, they're Microsoft. 

 

At the end of the day it's going to be yet another version of Windows, with all its bad parts and maybe a few good, and Microsoft may really be too big to fail.

 

I guess my point, though I'm no fanboy and I complain with the best of them, is don't let it eat you up.  Like Luke Skywalker, carry a good light saber and always try to find the good in Darth OS. 

 

-Noel

[jaclaz]

But anyway all this has nothing to do with my use of WIN31FAHR as unit of measure and it's accuracy.

Was NT 4.00 8 to 16 time better than WIN311? You can bet on it.

Was 2K 16 to to 64 times better than WIN311? Hmmm, surely 16 to 32 times better, maybe not 64 times so.

Was XP 64 to 128 times better than WIN311? Hmmm, hardly 64 to 128 times better, was it 2 to 4 times better than 2K? .

...

We can use however MISNT4 as an alternate unit of measure .

MISNT4 equates to the minimal install size of a NT 4.00, which is a little less than 200 Mb, 175 or 180 if I recall correctly.

Windows 2000 at around 700 Mb scores a MISNT4 of around 3 and actually reflects how better 2K was when compared to NT 400.

Windows XP at around 1500 Mb scores a MISNT4 of around 8, i.e. more than double, almost triple the 2k, but without corresponding "enhancements".

Vista and it's Service Pack 3 rectius Windows 7 grew to some 12 Gb, if I recall correctly, i.e a score of 67 MISNT4 or a x8 growth when compared to XP, almost 20 (twenty) times when compared to 2K, and in this case the lack of corresponding enhancements seems to me self-evident.

As said, not only it is sad, but when analyzed through these units of measure, sadder.

jaclaz

Edited March 5, 2015 by jaclaz

[NoelC]

GIVEN what each can be ​made into... _{(which, don't look now, is what this thread is about)}

 

Yes, each new version has been better than its predecessor - even 8.1 (or I wouldn't be using it). 

 

Yes, XP was hundreds of times better than WFWG 3.11. 

 

Yes, Win 7 was easily 8 times better than XP.  Sorry I can't agree with you on any of your comparitives.  The only one you didn't make is that IMO Win 8.1 is only about 1.05 times better than Win 7 - for me, since I don't partake in the App Store or use a Windows tablet.  Others who do might think differently.

 

Since we can now buy terabyte SSDs now for the price of what a few hundred MB HDD cost back in the 1990s, what of it?  Maybe it's more ready for you to plug something unexpected in than ever.

 

Like I said, they fit in the same boxes, which now do WAY more than they used to.  Your attempts at putting a twisted arbitrary perspective on the whole thing based on RAM and disk usage just seem to me to fail.

 

Perhaps I'm unique in that I'm getting more than ever out of my Windows systems now.  Sucks to be you.

 

-Noel

Edited March 6, 2015 by NoelC

[jaclaz]

Sucks to be you.

 

Hmmm , given that:

 

 

I don't really care what most people do.  In some cases it may be less than what I do, and what that usually means is that the makers of the thing think that working at the level I do isn't important, and so they dumb it down.

and that:

 

I spend virtually all my time just doing my work.  Sometimes it's demanding stuff.

and that you seemingly spend what little remains of that time by bragging about how good you are at doing your demanding stuff on your top class hardware, perfectly tweaked and set up (only thanks to your unique and superior to anyone else experience and knowledge):

Perhaps I'm unique in that I'm getting more than ever out of my Windows systems now.

you are most probably right.

I seem however to better enjoy my free time, and I have to remark how should being me actually suck, it would anyway suck in a modest, minimal way, requiring much less experience and computing power.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

JFYI, the above represents a line, which is the thing you just crossed, or - to be more exact - the thing beyond which your ego expanded.

jaclaz

Edited March 6, 2015 by jaclaz

[NoelC]

You claim to better enjoy your free time, yet you're repeatedly posting how "sad" you find things, while I repeatedly claim that I'm getting pleasure out of my tech.  Clearly we both have systems working well enough that we can waste time blabbering here.

 

We're here to share our experiences, and we both suggest the other join us in our mindset.  Specifically I suggest things and ways to approach things that might increase your satisfaction with your tech, while you suggest I should be more jaded about things over which I have no control... 

 

Who's trying to bring whom down?

 

Yeah, I have an ego.  It comes from succeeding at what I do.  I like to share that success with others.

 

It has not been my intent to offend, here, no more I'm sure than it was yours.  Clearly I have (I'm sorry) and I probably will again (I'm sorry).  What you probably don't see is, so have you (don't worry about it). 

 

We'll both get over it and life will go on.

 

-Noel

Edited March 6, 2015 by NoelC

[jaclaz]

Well, besides being myself (sucking), you stated and re-stated how ALL MS OS suck or sucked in their time, exception made for (maybe) Windows 7 and now Windows 8/8.x (but only your specially tuned version doesn't suck).

 

I am of the opposite opinion, i.e. not only NONE of MS OS sucked in their time (well, wait, no , exception made for Vista  as released) and - as a matter of fact - they don't even suck  (much) nowadays (which does not mean that many betterings were not made at each new OS release and not even that some - few - betterings were not made lately).

 

I have been happily and contentedly computing before DOS, in DOS times, in Windows 3.1x times, in Windows NT times, in 2K times (sorry 9x/Me friends  I actually never used those) and in XP times, and I am pretty sure that - when I will find an actual reason/need to switch to 7 or to a later OS, I will be able - like I managed to do all these years - to continue happily and contentedly computing alright.

 

While reportedly  all these years you lived and worked unsatisfied of the operating systems and hardware you had, dreaming of better ones until Windows 7 came:

 

 

Windows 8.1 (and before it 7) are operating systems for the computers I dreamed about using my entire career. 

 

but still you were not happy or contented about them and it took you years or months to tweak them in such a way to satisfy you.

 

I fully understand how after living so many years working in environments that didn't fully satisfy you, and dreaming about better computing experiences once you finally managed, through some really hard work, to reach your dream you are very proud of the result, and you wish to tell everyone how your lifetime dream became reality , still, maybe you overdo it a bit when you regularly and repeatedly downplay other people's (more modest) experience, used Operating System or hardware, underlining the uniqueness of your achievements, boasting how powerful and what not is your extremely top-end system,  how smooth goes each and every operation you perform on them and how all other people are having a worse computing experience than you have.

 

Now:

Who's trying to bring whom down? 

 

 

jaclaz

Edited March 6, 2015 by jaclaz

[NoelC]

Actually, to be accurate, the ​computers are the beasts I dreamed of using.  The operating systems I mentioned only happen to be those I found to be the most useful on said hardware.

 

At this point my system isn't even close to a top-end model any more.  It's (gasp) years old.  They're now multiple times faster, with multiple times the core count.  That's life.  At some point I'll get another, better one when I need it (I'd suggest that time is nearer for you).  The chassis will almost no doubt be around the same size and I'll make the operating system into something more gratifying to use (with, for example, the help of amazing 3rd party software developers like our own Big Muscle here on the forum, and nice discussions here about what can be blocked from running to make more resources available, etc. etc.).

 

My main reason for speaking up here (apparently which you interpreted as coming out against you) was that frankly I get tired of hearing how bad the newest systems are, etc. etc.  Suppose I kept coming on here and actively exclaiming how bad the OS you've chosen to run is?  Would you consider that an affront to your choice?  Would it irritate you to hear "Windows 8.1 rules and XP drools"?

 

Sure, everything we see in the world could be better.  I do more than my own share of grousing about how bad it is.  Sometimes maybe it feels good to complain and be depressed, and sometimes maybe it also feels good to celebrate success, even if success can be defined as no more than avoiding pain for a measured period of time.

 

Can we please get back to talking about how to stop Cortana from running?

 

-Noel

[NoelC]

I was just looking over the running process list for the umpteenth time, and something that concerns me a bit is that with some of the things we're seeing run now (e.g., this searchui.exe thing) we're not able to see directly how they get started.

 

Good tools like Autoruns don't show them anywhere. Registry searches don't turn them up.

 

That's a bit disturbing for those who like to reconfigure. Are they now hard coded in other executables? If so, does this represent a step away from the software being an operating system and more like a single-purpose application (the purpose of which is presumably to herd us all into the App Store)?

 

FYI:  https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/24e3873c-89bf-40a5-8c82-fad21e2006cc/do-we-really-need-this-many-processes-just-to-do-nothing?forum=WinPreview2014Feedback

 

-Noel

[jaclaz]

Good tools like Autoruns don't show them anywhere. Registry searches don't turn them up.

Maybe doing a full boot time log with Procmon would help.

 

 

 

 

FYI:  https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/24e3873c-89bf-40a5-8c82-fad21e2006cc/do-we-really-need-this-many-processes-just-to-do-nothing?forum=WinPreview2014Feedback

Hmmm.

 

jaclaz

[NoelC]

 Methinks you need to do something else besides try to analyze me.

 

How do you think I got Windows 8.1 and its predecessors to work?  By being all happy about them?  Happy comes later, when one figures out all the tweaks.

 

-Noel