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zamarac

Acronis ISO Boot on UEFI PC

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Thanks to zamarac  ;) mixing liberally different versions there is a lot of confusion  :w00t:.

 

I do recognize jaclaz... Still having sanity issues?   :}  Did YOU give IsoBuster the link to WinPE ISO, while talking about ISOBuster issues it doesn't have with this particular ISO?     :thumbup

 

IsoBuster

 

Each ISO title is clearly identified in ISOBuster headline, so its hard to get confused. And links to all 3 discussed were given in the above single post for a reason to easily find them. Btw, I suggested to download all 3 trial ISOs for testing ISOBuster to make the relevant issues evident. Regarding Slitaz.iso 30Mb, here's one mentioned in the thread she linked, but there are others around.

 

 

So why is in this particular image the 'no emulation' 'image' 'BootImage.img' in fact a FAT file system ?

Suppose I make a workaround for this case. Can I recognize that the size is wrong ? Or should I trigger on the name ("isolinux" ?) and then do an extra check ?

In a situation where there is a loader and a FAT image, how do you suggest I list this (assuming I can detect it) ?

Split in two files ? image-name.loader and image-name.img ?

Is this something very much linked to Acronis ?

 

I'd say, the issue is NOT Acronis specific, but rather resulting from changed landscape of ISO booting methods not accounted for in ISOBuster and similar packages thus far. You likely developed ISOBuster for exploring ISO's without particular accent on how they boot, partly because at that time they booted uniformly on BIOS PCs. Now it changed, so different Service ISO makers use somewhat varying solutions to boot them on BIOS & UEFI hardware. Accounting for BOOT method and images becomes a major requirement for ISOBuster's update. Not surprising, it might be needed to change how things look (visual file representation), even if earlier users find it unfamiliar. Since when learning new things was considered "a problem"?  :)

 

The batch above has comments showing image is checked against known standards and strings to ID its type, size, file system among other things. It doesn't mean this is the only way to do things, but it leans toward generic approach. "How to" question is rather related to the task to make the algorithm as generic as possible (not specific to Acronis). Later in this thread we might look at similar in service purpose Paragon trial ISOs as another example of UEFI ISO boot, and test if "generic" clause holds.  :wacko:

 

21j7ig9.jpg

 

The other thing, it would be nice if an image listed as ISO or Floppy in ISOBuster, would be possible to extract not to a folder, but as ISO or Floppy. Right now an attempt to extract something listed as Bootable Disk above using the option "Extract Bootable Disk" produces a folder structure, not to mention the disk content is likely wrong.

Edited by zamarac

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If you can download the mentioned on the reboot.pro thread Slitaz .iso (it is only around 30 Mb) and open it in Isobuster, and try to Extract the "BootImage.img"

Could you point me to this image as well please ?

I'll look into it shortly

 

On the given thread:

http://reboot.pro/topic/12406-editing-iso-files/

in post #19

http://reboot.pro/topic/12406-editing-iso-files/?p=108399

Direct Link:

http://mirror.slitaz.org/iso/3.0/slitaz-3.0.iso

 

It is just a "normal" ISOLINUX based image.

 

jaclaz

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Hi Guys,

Please try this version: http://www.isobuster.com/downloads/isobuster/IsoBuster-Test.zip

 

Meanwhile my lasagna is ready ... I'm going to eat something.  I'll be back in an hour or so (going to watch an episode of Babylon 5 ... I know .. I'm behind).

 

When I get back I'll explain in detail what I have changed.  I'd like your feedback then and if possible, please do some testing on various situations.

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Nice :).

Though I hope you are going to eat some lasagne (plural) as one lasagna (singular) provides not enough calories ;).

 

Don't worry too much  about Babylon 5 representing "being behind", you are not the only one still liking and watching it.

 

But I guess you'll need to wait tomorrow :w00t: for the feedback  as I am also going soon to have dinner (or at least I hope so).

 

jaclaz

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Please try this version:

As for Acrois EFI image: good work

BootImage.img list correct LBA and Size.

Properties, Advanced lists Virt.Sect L.S.: 0 Yes, a user can detect real data.

Platform: Undefined. Can you list EFI?

Acronis.img list the whole BIOS data: the loader and the FAT image.

Can you slit the display: Acronis.bin (loader) and Acronis.img (image)

Slitaz:

BootImage.img LBA 33, size 2048 bytes

\boot\isolinux\isolinux.bin starts at LBA 33 too. Size 14336 bytes.

Can you assume BootImage.img size 14336 bytes, Virt.Sect L.S.: 4 still

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IsoBuster

 

I tested just a little bit, and it looks a lot better now. Still some questions remain:

 

- wouldn't be better to allow extract Bootable Disk as IMG or FOLDER, rather than extracting it as folder only? It remains to be tested whether its possible to directly copy such BootableDisk.img onto another ISO or USB Thumb to make it bootable, or it needs to be extracted onto such Thumb

- while inside the Bootable_Disk floppy files seems to be shown with proper sizes now, the structure discussed above doesn't match. It was mentioned that what was named Acronis.img before is in fact a bootloader that points to BIOS image next to it - where is this image now? At the same time what is listed now as Acronis.img can't be explored in Windows despite listed as FAT

- Outside of Bootable_Disk floppy, in ATIH2014_Linux.iso the Acronis.img is not listed separately, and Acronis_Media .iso (if its really an ISO) content is equivalent to Acronis_Media folder. While in ATIH2015_Linux.iso the Acronis_Media.iso is empty, and Acronis.img is listed separately. Why is that?

- in ATIH2015_WinPE.iso the Acronis.img is shown in Bootable_Disk floppy, but not listed separately, so its content is unknown

 

 

jaclaz

 

While inviting IsoBuster to the discussion was IMHO a good idea, ISOBuster package deficiencies were not the only ones we stumbled upon in this thread. Even more questions were raised about inability to boot WinPE ISO in UEFI mode, and all of them are relevant to this thread. So may be inviting other known personalities who can address "lost CD mount" issue would be suitable?  :whistle:

Edited by zamarac

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Even more questions were raised about inability to boot WinPE ISO in UEFI mode, and all of them are relevant to this thread.

Well, we have a "Windows PE" section too http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/81-windows-pe/

And a "Install Windows from USB" section, two sticky support Windwos 8 ISO install http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/157-install-windows-from-usb/

What about asking specific questions there?

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Hi Guys,

 

A bit later than expected but here is what I did

 

1.  In case of no emulation, I check for the mkisofs stuff (see options, if enabled)

     This is old stuff but I improved this to be a bit, to be more strict as I noticed it triggered on (at least) one of the images and was reading sectors (hence loosing time, especially on bad media)

 

2.  In case of no emulation and if mkisofs is not relevant I check the first sector of the image (size or not) and check if there is no MBR or PBP.  If there is, I derive the size from either of the two structures (*)

 

3.  In case of no emulation and in the case that I don't get additional size information (from mkisofs or MBR or PBP) and in the case that another image follows the image, I use the following image to calculate a size till the next image.  This is more guessing than anything else, but it's fair to assume that most (?) mastering applications will in fact organize the data this way.  (*)

 

4. In case of no emulation and in case an image file is called "Acronis.img" I will hard coded check the 13th sector of that image to see if it doesn't contain an MBR or PBP

   If it does, that is the point where I will let other code look for FAT when FAT file systems are explored.  An option issue (for me) is that I need to add a few more checks before I proceed (**)

 

5.  A FAT file system, explored from a bootable image will be named after that boot file (the name appended)  

     An open issue still is that this may be renamed/overwritten again, when the root is explored and a new name is found for the volume. (**)

 

(*) I may change this behaviour at a later date, based on settings (cfr. the mkisof setting) ... we'll see.

(**) I'll look into this again at a later date.  Tomorrow I may be too swamped.

 

I hope I didn't forget to mention anything ?

I appreciate your feedback.

Especially on topic 4.  This is a hard coded patch to have to do as little as possible extra reads.  In an image file reading is blazing fast but I have to consider that this may also happen on a bad to read CD, and then these extra checks could choke the system or hamper recovery of more important data.

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Platform: Undefined. Can you list EFI?

Yes. Good point.

Download here again:

http://www.isobuster.com/downloads/isobuster/IsoBuster-Test.zip

 

Acronis.img list the whole BIOS data: the loader and the FAT image.

Can you slit the display: Acronis.bin (loader) and Acronis.img (image)

I'm not sure what to do here. Some seem to have issues with the freedom I enjoy in naming and adding things :whistle:

A more elegant solution may be to split the image up in two extents.

Then it's still one file, but you can explore and extract both extents seperately.

The only disadvantage (for you) may be that it actually requires a [Professional] license then to see and extract these different extents (not the whole file, that remains the same)

 

Slitaz:

BootImage.img LBA 33, size 2048 bytes

\boot\isolinux\isolinux.bin starts at LBA 33 too. Size 14336 bytes.

Can you assume BootImage.img size 14336 bytes, Virt.Sect L.S.: 4 still

I have NO idea what you mean here, can you elaborate please ?

Edited by IsoBuster

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wouldn't be better to allow extract Bootable Disk as IMG or FOLDER, rather than extracting it as folder only?

I don't know what you mean ?

It remains to be tested whether its possible to directly copy such BootableDisk.img onto another ISO or USB Thumb to make it bootable, or it needs to be extracted onto such Thumb

I can't comment on that, that is beyond the scope of what I do or why I'm involved here.

while inside the Bootable_Disk floppy files seems to be shown with proper sizes now, the structure discussed above doesn't match. It was mentioned that what was named Acronis.img before is in fact a bootloader that points to BIOS image next to it - where is this image now? At the same time what is listed now as Acronis.img can't be explored in Windows despite listed as FAT

It is listed as *one* image in the El torito boot catalog and to remain somewhat and still inline with what is found there, for now at least, I have kept it one file. Because that's what it essentially is ! (see my previous comment to cdob as well)

Outside of Bootable_Disk floppy, in ATIH2014_Linux.iso the Acronis.img is not listed separately, and Acronis_Media .iso (if its really an ISO) content is equivalent to Acronis_Media folder. While in ATIH2015_Linux.iso the Acronis_Media.iso is empty, and Acronis.img is listed separately. Why is that?

Frankly I don't know what you mean ?

I downloaded and tested with the 2015 version, I can't comment in the 2014 version.

Is it that different ? Worth it to download as well ?

ATIH2015_WinPE.iso the Acronis.img is shown in Bootable_Disk floppy, but not listed separately, so its content is unknown

Because it seems to be a loader only !?

It certainly is not immediately followed by a FAT image.

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IsoBuster

 

I don't know if content of ATIH2014_Linux.iso is different than ATIH2015_Linux.iso in terms of files discussed, but its definitely reflected differently by ISOBuster. It might be interesting for you to understand WHY, because Acronis.img in one is shown as ISO, and in the other as FAT .

 

Acronis.img needs to be "explorable", hence separated into 2 files or extents. As the images exploration stands right now in Linux:

 

>file \BootImage(Linux2015).img

x86 boot sector, Acronis Startup Recovery Loader BOOTWIZ .SYS, code offset 0x42, OEM-ID "BOOTWIZ0", sectors/cluster 8, FAT  1, root entries 16, Media descriptor 0xf8, sectors/FAT 159, heads 255, sectors 325337 (volumes > 32 MB) , serial number 0xf1fc2ee9, label: "           ", FAT (16 bit)
 
>file \BootImage(Linux2014).img
x86 boot sector, Acronis Startup Recovery Loader BOOTWIZ .SYS, code offset 0x42, OEM-ID "BOOTWIZ0", sectors/cluster 8, FAT  1, root entries 16, sectors/FAT 140, heads 16, sectors 285374 (volumes > 32 MB) , serial number 0xbe3065a3, label: "           ", FAT (16 bit)
 
>file \BootImage(PE2015).img
DOS floppy 1440k, x86 hard disk boot sector
 
>file \Acronis(Linux2015).img
data
 
Meaning, Acronis.img is NOT explorable, doesn't contain a valid file system.
 
As to exporting Bootable_Disk floppy shown in ISOBuster GUI, can it be exported & saved as a single IMG file (Floppy.img) instead of a folder structure? One can mount this file by ImDisk, and see the files inside it, i.e. Catalog.dat, Acronis.img, BootImage.img. Then these images can also be mounted by ImDisk if needed.
 
Regarding file naming, is it reasonable to name Acronis.img as AcronisBIOS.img, and BootImage.img as AcronisEFI.img, or they are listed that way on the CD?
Edited by zamarac

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Acronis.img needs to be "explorable", hence separated into 2 files or extents.

Says you :)

I'm more concerned with giving an as good as possible representation of the content and at the same time allow to explore the file-contents if present (even if burried in the Acronis image). If one needs to extract the Acronis image, then it should be the file as is, loader and image in one, as that is what it is.

To split it up in two files, I can get why, and I do see the upside, but I have to choose between one of the two ways of approaching this.

Hence my (thinking aloud) idea to maybe split it up in two extents. Then you have one file, but IsoBuster allows to see the different sub-parts (extents) to possibly extract those seperately

As to exporting Bootable_Disk floppy shown in ISOBuster GUI, can it be exported & saved as a single IMG file (Floppy.img) instead of a folder structure? One can mount this file by ImDisk, and see the files inside it, i.e. Catalog.dat, Acronis.img, BootImage.img. Then these images can also be mounted by ImDisk if needed.

I'm not sure we are on the same page zamarac ?

The different images as they are shown by IsoBuster are in a way different floppies. Some however are 'just' loaders instead, or in case of the Acronis image it's in fact a combination of the two, which is perfectly possible. I can also make an exe file (for instance) that contains executable code and a resource part at the end that contains a FAT image, that I then explore with the executable code. That's not the issue.

The floppy icon as is shown is in fact a folder, based on the content of the catalog file, which I in my doubtful wisdome of the past, also added to the root of that folder. You can compare it with putting a file in every folder that contains the folder structures that led to the content of the folder.

I don't see the point or use of extracting all this content into one single file ?

If that file is then loaded with ImDisk, what driver do you need to install then to be able to explore the content ?

Sort of an El torito file-system driver ?

If you're asking me to master a new file system with those file as content, that's not something IsoBuster does, so that's far beyond the scope of what it does.

I hope this explains things a bit ?

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Hi Guys,

I addressed the earlier mentioned 'open issues' of points 4 and 5 and I went ahead and split up the Acronis image into two extents.
Let me know what you think.

http://www.isobuster.com/downloads/isobuster/IsoBuster-Test.zip

 

This is the last version of today and tomorrow I most likely won't be able to do much.

I am downloading the 2014 image (slowly ...).  I'll check that out when I can.

 

Cheers.

 

PS. I will delete the download file again when I'm back to follow up.

Edited by IsoBuster

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1.  In case of no emulation, I check for the mkisofs stuff (see options, if enabled)

Thanks, this works at a proper image: -boot-info-table was used to patch isolinux.bin.

Unfortunately slitaz-3.0.iso is a exception, isolinux.bin is not patched.

BootImage.img is listed at size 2048 bytes, despite it's a isolinux.bin header.

What todo in such a case: just display the 2048 bytes or display isolinux.bin file size?

Another case ubuntu-14.04.1-desktop-amd64.iso

00000166 , 2.00 KB , >:\BootCatalog.cat

00484052 , No Emulation , 3.37 MB , >:\BootImage.img

00485777 , No Emulation , 2.28 MB , >:\BootImage.img

00484052 , 24.00 KB , >:\isolinux\isolinux.bin

00485777 , 2.28 MB , >:\BOOT\GRUB\EFI.IMG

I wonder a special isolinux.bin case: if a BootImage.img LBA 484052 matches a file name isolinux.bin LBA 484052, display isolinux.bin file size.

Yes, it's guessing still.

 

I'm not sure what to do here. Some seem to have issues with the freedom I enjoy in naming and adding things :whistle:

Of course not, feel free to use names you like.

 

A more elegant solution may be to split the image up in two extents.

Then it's still one file, but you can explore and extract both extents seperately.

The only disadvantage (for you) may be that it actually requires a [Professional] license then to see and extract these different extents (not the whole file, that remains the same)

Yes, I like the extents approach. I don't expect any new feature at free version, [Professional] license is fine.

 

You shouln't mention extents, I've two old testing files arround.

a Insane_3PiT.iso (exploring the limits: several extents to the same 3 GiB section), IsoBuster lists at 700 TiB file. Just laugh about the crazy file.

a chars.iso (9 extents to a 26 byte section each): IsoBuster displays size 234 bytes correctly and extract a file 16618 bytes

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Acronis.img needs to be "explorable", hence separated into 2 files or extents.

I'm more concerned with giving an as good as possible representation of the content.

Hence my idea to maybe split it up in two extents. Then you have one file, but IsoBuster allows to see the different sub-parts (extents) to possibly extract those seperately

The different images as they are shown by IsoBuster are in a way different floppies. 

The floppy icon as is shown is in fact a folder.

 

I don't see any changes in this version, especially on points 4 and 5.  :boring:

 

As to floppy been a folder, we are definitely on different pages. Your floppy says "Bootable Disk", and you called it El-Torito floppy in several places here. It looks like an image for users, not a folder.  :rolleyes: In this case, what ISO folder means in your GUI?

 

If its not a single El_Torito floppy, I don't see "use case" to extract it as an image. Regarding file system & driver see Img (File Format). If an IMG contains other images, ImDisk can mount it as a regular disk, then other images inside. Intuitive is the key for a paid GUI package, especially when facing competition from a free batch (if jaclaz would be interested to finalize it after a dinner - if he had a dinner).  :yes: Valid argument for multibooters, probably less for data recovery.

 

There are new annoying bugs in your new version (may be on purpose B) ), but I don't want this thread be hijacked to ISOBuster. Note, out testing and suggestions are free, while your package needs update or enhancement.

 

 
What about asking specific questions here?

 

Going back to the topic of this thread. Presence of what is called 2 El-Torito floppies in the ISO raises the questions:

 

- How the burned Linux CD boots on UEFI and BIOS PCs - what is the boot sequence for each hardware type?

- Would one need to extract or copy each IMG to a USB Thumb to make it bootable after copying the mounted ISO content to it?

Edited by zamarac

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