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Will an XP Repair Install mess up MBR?


JorgeA

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Very well. The question then becomes: how to find out which of those two ways Netrunner used to install its boot manager. How do we do that?

As to which version of GRUB is in use, I'm thinking it must be GRUB2. The reason is that last year I had Zorin OS 5.2 installed in that Linux partition. The options during boot were different than they are now -- I remember that they gave both XP and Vista in the initial selection menu, but then also that if you selected the XP option from that menu, it would screw up the booting afterward. (If you wanted to go into XP, it was better to select Vista and then the "previous OS" option in the next menu.)

When I installed Netrunner 12.12 in place of Zorin 5.2, there was a new boot menu with more sensible (less dangerous) options: now in the first menu you select either Netrunner or "Vista," and then if you select the "Vista" option the next menu offers a choice of Vista or a "previous" version of Windows. So whether it's GRUB2 specifically I don't know, but it is definitely a different version, and a better one in that respect at least.

Hope this helps in our detective work.

--JorgeA

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Hope this helps in our detective work.

--JorgeA

Not really (in detecting if it is GRUB or GRUB2) but it does tell us that your "main" bootmanager is the GRUB or GRUB 2, which has only two entries, one of which chainloads your secondary bootmanager (which is the Vista BOOTMGR).

But still you can get to the GRUB (or GRUB2) in two ways:

  1. GRUB (or GRUB2) code in the MBR + hidden sectors <- please read as "installed to the disk"
  2. "normal" MBR and GRUB (or GRUB2) code in the PBR of the active partition <- please read as "installed to the partition"

Now, HOW (EXACTLY) is your hard disk partitioned?

WHICH is the active partition?

Can you find (likely on the "Linux" partition) files core.img and grub.cfg (possibly in a \boot\ folder? <- this would mean that it is GRUB2 alright

jaclaz

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Apologies for the "bump" again, but I felt it may be necessary to cross-post this. See my post#2.

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/170907-xp-freeze-on-dual-boot-with-7/

@jaclaz - please correct me if I'm wrong and (maybe) update the above fantastic sequence for posterity(?).

Which "fantastic" sequence?

There is nothing fantastic in it, everything is very, very "normal".

There is also a nice graphical version of it:

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/multiboot.html

jaclaz

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Hope this helps in our detective work.

--JorgeA

Not really (in detecting if it is GRUB or GRUB2) but it does tell us that your "main" bootmanager is the GRUB or GRUB 2, which has only two entries, one of which chainloads your secondary bootmanager (which is the Vista BOOTMGR).

But still you can get to the GRUB (or GRUB2) in two ways:

  1. GRUB (or GRUB2) code in the MBR + hidden sectors <- please read as "installed to the disk"
  2. "normal" MBR and GRUB (or GRUB2) code in the PBR of the active partition <- please read as "installed to the partition"

Now, HOW (EXACTLY) is your hard disk partitioned?

WHICH is the active partition?

Can you find (likely on the "Linux" partition) files core.img and grub.cfg (possibly in a \boot\ folder? <- this would mean that it is GRUB2 alright

jaclaz

  • For the sake of completeness, I should report that the initial boot menu also contains three other choices: Netrunner with "advanced options" and then two memory test items.
  • With that out of the way, according to the KDE Partition Manager this is the info for the HDD. I don't think we can do tables on the forum here, but I'll do what I can.

PARTITION, TYPE, SIZE, FLAGS [<--- REMARKS]

/dev/sda1, ntfs, 58.59 GiB, boot <--- this is the XP partition (primary)

/dev/sda3, ntfs, 195.01 GiB, --- <--- this is the Vista partition (primary)

/dev/sda4, extended, 28.49 GiB, --- <--- this is the Netrunner partition, which contains the following two logical partitions --

/dev/sda5, ext4, 25.53 GiB, --- <--- this contains the Netrunner OS, applications, and data

/dev/sda6, linuxswap, 2.96 GiB, --- <--- self-explanatory

/dev/sda2, ntfs, 16.00 GiB, --- <--- this is the HP Recovery partition (primary)

I can provide more details about these partitions if you need them.

  • Had to boot back into Windows to get the active partition information, but here it is: the XP partition is the active drive. Disk Management (in Vista) also reports that drive (C:) as "system," whereas the Vista partition (F:) is "boot." (Which seems to differ from what the KDE Partition Manager said, that the XP partition was "boot," but that may be simply because the Vista drive was the one I ultimately booted into today (?). :unsure: )
  • I did indeed find the two files, core.img (in boot > grub > i386-pc) and grub.cfg (in boot > grub), so according to what you said it must in fact be GRUB2.

Let me know what I need to do next, thanks!

--JorgeA

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Well, not-so-surprisingly, Microsoft decided to use common terms the other way around from the rest of the world (or from elementary logic), JFYI:

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/system.html

A partition is marked as "boot" or "active" in the MBR, the way MS calls the partitions is simply one of the other ways they manage to make a mess of otherwise quite simple terminology.

Easiest would be to make a copy of :

1.first track (first 63 sectors, the GRUB2 will probably occupy only a bunch of them but it costs nothing to save the whole lot),

and a copy of relevant files from the various partitions:

2.from the first one: NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI

3.from the second one: BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD folder

4.from the "linux" one, the whole /boot folder

The only item that you will actually need to restore after XP re-install/repair will be #1, but having a copy of the other items allows (in case of some unexpected issue) to fix the whole stuff anyway (or to create a "recovery media" as hinted earlier).

I hope you understand that since the time you installed any of those OS's you have most probably lost (possibly in a non recoverable way) boot-time access to the HP recovery partition (as hinted before by submix8c) don't you?

I would personally use dsfo from the DSFOK toolkit from the booted XP:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/

to save those 63 sectors to a file, but you can well use any tool/utility with direct disk access that you may have handy or are more familiar with.

jaclaz

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...and a Follow-Up - Lucky you! I may very well have an "original" HP MBR -CODE- if you ever need it, barring my being banned, croak, or get sent to an insane asylum.

FYI - Beware! Using -any- HP Recover Software within the Running XP will proably -not- work as your RecoveryParition is in a different location. Also, -if- it even worked then the MBR -CODE- could very well be overwritten with HP's "special" Code.

Jaclaz is, indeed, leading you in the correct direction. I will now bow out. Good luck. ;)

Edited by submix8c
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...and a Follow-Up - Lucky you! I may very well have an "original" HP MBR -CODE- if you ever need it, barring my being banned, croak, or get sent to an insane asylum.

LOL! But thanks. Hopefully we won't need it. As a Plan B (and C), I also have a set of Recovery Disks created via Windows, plus an image of the HDD.

Also, I appreciate the warning about that recovery partition. I shouldn't count on it. Maybe I should try and test it, to see what happens.

You're welcome to bow back in anytime. :) Thanks again.

--JorgeA

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Well, not-so-surprisingly, Microsoft decided to use common terms the other way around from the rest of the world (or from elementary logic), JFYI:

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/system.html

A partition is marked as "boot" or "active" in the MBR, the way MS calls the partitions is simply one of the other ways they manage to make a mess of otherwise quite simple terminology.

Easiest would be to make a copy of :

1.first track (first 63 sectors, the GRUB2 will probably occupy only a bunch of them but it costs nothing to save the whole lot),

and a copy of relevant files from the various partitions:

2.from the first one: NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI

3.from the second one: BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD folder

4.from the "linux" one, the whole /boot folder

The only item that you will actually need to restore after XP re-install/repair will be #1, but having a copy of the other items allows (in case of some unexpected issue) to fix the whole stuff anyway (or to create a "recovery media" as hinted earlier).

I hope you understand that since the time you installed any of those OS's you have most probably lost (possibly in a non recoverable way) boot-time access to the HP recovery partition (as hinted before by submix8c) don't you?

I would personally use dsfo from the DSFOK toolkit from the booted XP:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nulifetv/freezip/freeware/

to save those 63 sectors to a file, but you can well use any tool/utility with direct disk access that you may have handy or are more familiar with.

jaclaz

This is great, thank you very much!

Since I'm not familiar (AFAIK) with any tool that provides direct disk access, I may as well start learning with the one you recommend.

--JorgeA

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Here is a suitable command line (when run from the XP install):

dsfo \\.\PhysicalDrive0 0 32256 C:\myfirstrack.dat

Please make sure that the disk is the first one (disk 0 in disk management)

\\.\PhysicalDrive0 = source

0 = offset from the beginning of the source

32256= 63*512 length to be copied

C:\myfirsttrack.dat = destination

jaclaz

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Thank you, jaclaz. This is very helpful. :thumbup

I'll try the reinstall this week when I have a chunk of time to devote to the process.

BTW, out of curiosity I rebooted that PC and hit F11 from the splash-screen menu to try and reach the HP Backup and Recovery Manager, and it did get me in there. The first option is to "Recover PC to a specific point in time" and the third option is to "Back up files." The most interesting option for our purposes here is the middle one: "Recover PC's factory installed operating system, drivers, utilities and applications."

That said, I wasn't brave enough to test what would have happened after the next screen, which warned that "This will remove all applications, drivers, and user data added to the system since the factory installation. Would you like to continue?" :ph34r: So while I can't be certain that the recovery partition is indeed accessible, getting this far is suggestive: where else would these initial recovery screens and menus reside?

--JorgeA

ADDENDUM: When I rebooted after poking around in the recovery partition, GRUB was gone and the only boot choices were either Vista or "previous version of Windows." :realmad::blushing: So I found and applied the GRUB rescue procedure given here (I used the Netrunner Live CD), and now I have recovered all the options at boot time. I'm wondering if I can perform this procedure instead, should the boot options get messed up (again) after the XP reinstall.

Edited by JorgeA
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There are different ways to get access to the Recovery partition, see:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/128727-cant-access-repair-my-pc-option-via-f8-startup/

HP traditionally used a "special" MBR (which a good 2/3 to 3/4 of self-appointed "advanced users" :whistle: traditionally botched by reinstalling some OS :w00t::ph34r:):

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/131620-hp-notebook-the-recovery-partition-could-not-be-found/

but it is entirely possible that they have later added it to (say) BIOS, basically when you press F11 the original MBR CODE is re-written (and that would explain why your GRUB was gone), or is it possible that they dropped the approach completely and what the F11 press does is simply to make the Recovery partition the Active one, cannot say or that they are using (though using the F11 key) the built-in recovery provisions of Vista, the WinRE :unsure:

Sure :yes: you can reuse (as I already hinted earlier) the Netrunner repair utility, what you have to understand is that it is possible that it can work or not.

What I mean is that you have three two choices now:

1. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->Linux

2. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD

this latter (in the \boot\BCD) duplicates as:

2.1 ->WINLOAD.EXE->Vista

2.2 ->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->NTDETECT.COM->XP

When you exited the recovery partition "fiddling" you were presented with the:

1. MBR->PBR->BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD

which later duplicates as

2.1 ->WINLOAD.EXE->Vista

2.2 ->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->NTDETECT.COM->XP

The Netrunner repair utility found then an existing "main" bootmanager (which was the BOOTMGR) and added it to the GRUB together with it's own booting provision.

If you prefer, the Netrunner repair utility found the system in the same exact situation as when you installed Netrunner the first time.

But after you will have reinstalled the XP, the NTLDR will be the pre-existing, "main" bootmanager that the Netrunner utility will find, which is a different situation:

1. MBR->PBR->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->NTDETECT.COM->XP

Whether it will anyway "keep" the already existing entries in the grub.cfg or not cannot say, but if it doesn't and simply reinstates it's own provision and "previous main" bootmanager the result may be a dual boot between Linux and XP (with no provision to boot Vista).

1. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->Linux

2. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->NTDETECT.COM->XP

Of course you can also "repair" this latter situation by later "fixing" the Vista install (which will "Import" in the \boot\BCD the NTLDR/XP provision and make again BOOTMGR the "main" bootmanager).

In theory your setup is "wrong" because you have an "intermediate passage", once you have decided that your "main" bootmanager is GRUB2, you could use it as such, i.e. have it with three choices in the same single screen as it would be more "clean" and "direct":

1. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->Linux

2. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD->WINLOAD.EXE->Vista

3. MBR->GRUB->grub.cfg->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->NTDETECT.COM->XP

jaclaz

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