New rig and some questions

[Dogway]

@bphlpt: You know, the use of the pagefile is by design. The pagefile is a reminiscent of old years when RAM wasn't as today's, and by design some things were confined to the swap file. Having more RAM is not going to prevent pagefile from increasing or being used.

Best bet?, well if you have a SSD put your main pagefile as "fixed size" in your mechanical HDD, a small one on your SSD (it's sometimes needed) and live with it. Scratch file goes to HDD or RAMdisk (out of ram) if you will.

I don't know why you guys are so concerned about pagefile XDDD I haven't asked anything about that... I asked for good SSD brands/models... durable by design.

[puntoMX]

I don't know why you guys are so concerned about pagefile XDDD I haven't asked anything about that... I asked for good SSD brands/models... durable by design.

You could make your pick out of some enterprise SSDs, they should be more durable by design, cost also a lot more.

By the way, I don't need a pagefile on my system, just making sure I have enough free memory (RAM), and yes, I use photoshop CS5 to make big banner ) 6 by 3 meters 72-96dpi banners with lots of layers. For the Photoshop scratch file I use a normal, old style, hard-disk indeed.

[Dogway]

I don't know why you guys are so concerned about pagefile XDDD I haven't asked anything about that... I asked for good SSD brands/models... durable by design.

You could make your pick out of some enterprise SSDs, they should be more durable by design, cost also a lot more.

You know that design changes from brand to brand, right? hell, even from model to model : P

If you got no pagefile, then some temp file are being written to disk, no matter how much RAM you got. For scratch file want a wise advise? change that HDD cluster size to 64K.

Anyway I was more eager to hear your response about my RAM questions on yesterday's post.

What I'm used to see is 1866 CL9 and 1.65(?), not sure about voltage tho. Also same specs in CL7 flavour, but that pumps the prices much higher.

Wouldn't it be buying 1600 right now falling a bit short? These days I have read that everything above 1600 is an overclock (OC from factory, but still OC) so it makes me think that sticks being sold as 1600 are for a reason, meaning not so overclockeable. I also read that for example that timings don't mean the same on different speeds, for example CL9 is not the same in 1600 than 1866 (means better with the latter)

[allen2]

For a current reliable ssd make/model, i'd look there and there.

So currently, i'd buy without a doubt a Samsung 840 PRO (for the performance).

[submix8c]

Question - what is an "Asus Z8P77-V Pro"? Web search tells me that's erroneous and you REALLY mean "Asus P8Z77-V Pro"?

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z77V_PRO/

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/322612-30-asus-p8z77-intel-memory-advice

According to this VERY reliable source -

http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/Socket%201155%20%28LGA1155%29.html

the MAXIMUM supported (i.e. "useable") is going to be 1600, so your question is a moot point.

Maximum CPU for that MoBo -

http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-ASUS/P8Z77-V_PRO.html

DDR3 (Wiki-Wiki) -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

Observe the "I/O Bus Clock" in the chart and compare to "Supported CPU's". The RAM will simply run at the Rated Bus Speed of 1600. A quick web search on DDR3 repeatedly yields 1600, so... one might "assume" the info you seem to have found is based upon NEWER mobo's/sockets (see above references).

Save your money and buy the 1600's.

[puntoMX]

Anyway I was more eager to hear your response about my RAM questions on yesterday's post.

What I'm used to see is 1866 CL9 and 1.65(?), not sure about voltage tho. Also same specs in CL7 flavour, but that pumps the prices much higher.

Wouldn't it be buying 1600 right now falling a bit short? These days I have read that everything above 1600 is an overclock (OC from factory, but still OC) so it makes me think that sticks being sold as 1600 are for a reason, meaning not so overclockeable. I also read that for example that timings don't mean the same on different speeds, for example CL9 is not the same in 1600 than 1866 (means better with the latter)

Why would it fall short?

Your whole system is made for 1600MT/s. It's slowly the end of LGA1155 too, your next build probably will be based on DDR4.

You won't be OCing the RAM, you might try to find lower timings if possible to get a snappier system.

Not so overclocable has nothing to do with it (and I OC all I can on my personal system so I know what I'm talking about, doing it for over 20 years). The chips on a 1600MT/s stick can even be the same as on a 2133MT/s stick...

I also read that for example that timings don't mean the same on different speeds, for example CL9 is not the same in 1600 than 1866 (means better with the latter)

Yes, that´s what I said, also said to get 1600MT/s 8-8-8-24 (or lower like 7-8-7-21) timed RAM @ 1.5v (clearly NOT 1.65v)

The problem is, that you buy your parts in the local computer store, so we can not tell you what is best what they sell.

[Dogway]

what is an "Asus Z8P77-V Pro"?

mistype, isn't it obvious?

the MAXIMUM supported (i.e. "useable") is going to be 1600, so your question is a moot point.

I can't read that the maximum ram bus is 1600 for that mobo in your links. I only find a reference to the H2 chipset having a 1600 limit, but all I was talking was about Z77.

Observe the "I/O Bus Clock" in the chart and compare to "Supported CPU's"

Sorry I can't see anything you talk about, you could help by adding some quotes...

Still I found a good line on that wiki page:

DDR3: Higher bandwidth performance, up to 2133 MT/s standardized

So 2133 is not a "hack", it's in fact a standard.

Anyways, my original post was quite a long time ago. When actually I was deciding between haswell or ivy. I think I finally decided to go with haswell, betting on Ivy at this stage is indeed a moot point.

So most likely and for my budget: 4670k, ASUS Z87-Pro.

...your next build probably will be based on DDR4.

DDR4 is not coming in a looooong time. Next year we will see it on servers, so... long path to go.

If I ask about 1866Mhz is because I read lots of guys having and OC rams of 1866, 2133 and beyond since a long time. And they are on Ivy, so how would my limit be 1600 if I haven't built my system yet? I'm not going to build an outdated rig, I want it to be some kind of future proof, but without going enthusiast/expensive (LGA2011, etc).

I know I can't ask for what is a good for me. But I can ask what is generally good to look for in RAM sticks (speed, latencies, brand reputation, etc), then I go to my local store, and with the knowledge I make my own calculations/decisions.

[submix8c]

Yeah, "typo" - good thing I (normally) double-check stuff, huh?

You don't read well? H@ is not a chipset, it's another "name" for the SOCKET! Which in turn, leads to the second-to-last link giving MAXIMUM CPU for that SOCKET (also listed in the H2 link).

Socket 1155, also called LGA1155, or socket H2...

The socket H2 supports dual-channel DDR3 memory with data rates up to 1600 MHz

The WIKI is all about DDR3, and that covers BEYOND your Mobo, which undoubtedly covers UP TO 1600, since it is NOT the "newer" Socket (see the Socket link given) and NOT the "faster". Yeah, you COULD put the faster in your MoBo, but REALLY doubt its will run any-faster-than-1600 since they will be HANDICAPPED by the CPU<->RAM speeds (didn't notice that either?).

I notice you did NOT snarkily respond in kind to this

Your whole system is made for 1600MT/s. It's slowly the end of LGA1155 too

which backs up my assertions. Thanks for arguing once again in the face of facts.

Follow the yellow brick road.... MAX is 1600 (divide the CPU bus and find max will come to 1600 for the RAM). You have all CORRECT answers. Live with it.

Crucial RAM -

http://www.crucial.com/upgrade/ASUS-memory/ASUS+Motherboards/P8Z77-V+PRO-upgrades.html

Shows your 1833, but so what? It fits and works?

Followup ICYMI (Asus Link I gave) -

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8Z77V_PRO/#support_QVL

Within, yes it DOES specify MANY "faster" RAM, and they also specify "(O.C.)". The CPU will never go any "faster" and you MAY "choke" with an O.C. of the RAM vs CPU (Yes, it DOES happen). Your money... go for it!

Happy now? I certainly hope so...

[puntoMX]

Remember that the memory-controller is build in to the CPU, for the Intel® Core™ i5-4670K Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.80 GHz) it states: "Memory Types DDR3-1333/1600". Intel always liked tighter timing better than higher bandwidth, and that's just a fact that you have to accept. There will be still a LGA1150 "E" type CPU and after that it seems like the end for LGA1150 and with that almost the end for DDR3 for intel based systems for mid- to high-end systems.

[Dogway]

@submix8c: it certainly looks like you like fighting against each side of your personality. Deal with that before coming personal to me. So I recommend you to delete that post because maybe it's you who can't read well, I've changed to Haswell since then, but you seem to stick with the past. Let me ignore you please, you won your own game.

puntoMX: gracias, but I know that, it's an evidence that everything is prone to be outdated, but what do you suggest to me, wait for DDR4? 2 years from now? I have a 2Gh Xeon woodcrest (dual core) that's a 6 generations gap, with DDR2, I need a computer now. And I can't find a better moment than now with a new CPU in the market, and probably one of the last in this type of markets (for 1150 there could be up to 3 gens, haswell, haswell refresh, broadwell). From now on I bet we will start seeing CPU+MOBO bundles, etc. Another option is LGA2011, but I can't afford that. The cheapest LGA2011 CPU is 300€, and Ivy. Also I am aware of the spec, but specs are specs, OC is out of specs, and I won't buy a K cpu to stay at 3.4Ghz, or 1600 Mhz for RAM, etc. I'm gonna tweak CPU and RAM wherever possible.

What I found is this.

A RAM compatibility sheet for Intel CPU's, and you see ALL types of ram bandwiths with Ivy (included the P8Z77 mobo) and haswell as well. The only problem being that the required (well it exactly says "certified") mobos are way too over my budget.

Edited June 21, 2013 by Dogway

[puntoMX]

No, no need to wait, if you need than buy it.

When you OC a "K" labeled CPU, you do that with the multiplier of the CPU, so you would set it to 46x (100MHz) for example (34x stock).

[submix8c]

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87PRO/

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87PRO/#support_CPU

Better (newer) board, better (newer) CPU, different socket, same basic RAM specs.

Do you read these?

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Z87PRO/#support_QVL

Hmm... still shows ALL "recommended" as "(O.C.)" beyond DDR3-1600.

And their recommended supported is rather more limited for the "(O.C.)" as compared to the OTHER one.

So, there ya go even with a MoBo decision change. Same-old same-old...

The assertions still stand, even though I missed the flip-over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitecture%29

http://www.cpu-world.com/Sockets/Socket_1150_LGA1150_H3.html

I highly recommend you follow the Manufacturer's (Asus) suggested supported associated hardware.

Be happy and OC away. Pick one Mobo or the other. Again, your cash, your choice.

edit (side note) - puntoMX is also steering you in the right direction.Heed the suggestions. Funny how you disrespect me, but it doesn't matter. I tried...

Edited June 21, 2013 by submix8c

[puntoMX]

For SSD: I would go with an Corsair Neutron Series GTX or SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series, you can't go wrong with one of those.

[Dogway]

yes the Samsung 840 is VERY good, I didn't know it was so cheap, for its capacity (120Gb) and quality.

Will pick the best ram I find for my budget, my target being 2x4Gb 1866Mhz CL9 1.5V. Whatever (no crap) brand I find.

[puntoMX]

Buy the ones that accept lower timings as well, 1866 CL9 is slower than 1600 CL8 (when you benchmark it).

2 Good sets:

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1866 (PC3 14900)

G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

and one of it's best for it's price: CORSAIR DOMINATOR GT 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2133 (only if you really want to play with high clock speeds on the RAM, best RAM I ever played with).