Drive Order

[Roffen]

All right, grab4dos works! Selecting the first entry, Win7 was booted.

Second entry returned error chainmanager /Bootmgr not found

I try to simplify the setup:

I removed the Win7 entry from boot.ini so I have only the options XP or grub4dos. (g4d)

No changes to g4d.

Selecting g4d, after a flash of a 'file system' msg, Windows boot mgr loads with options Win7 or g4d - and from there I get Win7.

A little clumsy.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Roffen

[jaclaz]

All right, grab4dos works! Selecting the first entry, Win7 was booted.

Good

Second entry returned error chainmanager /Bootmgr not found

This is strange.

Unless the disks are somehow listed in BIOS as 0/2/1.

I mean the menu.lst I made for you is:

# This is a sample menu.lst file modified for a test with Roffen <- anything beginning with "#" is a comment

color blue/green yellow/red white/magenta white/magenta <- some minimal colour choices

timeout 30 <- this is the time out to allow user to choose

title Load Windows 7 from disk 0 part 0 <- this chainloads the BOOTMGR that you copied to first disk

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /BOOTMGR

title Load Windows 7 from disk 1 part 0 <- this chainloads the BOOTMGR on second disk

root (hd1,0)

chainloader /BOOTMGR

title Load Windows 7 from disk 1 part 0 after exchanging disks <- this chainloads the BOOTMGR on second disk after having exchnaged disks

map (hd0) (hd1)

map (hd1) (hd0)

map --hook

root (hd0,0)

chainloader /BOOTMGR

title commandline <- get to grub4dos command line, unneeded, if you press "c" you get the same

commandline

title reboot <- forces a (soft) reboot

reboot

title halt <- halts the system

halt

Can you try the following?

Choose "commandline" (or press "c")

Then issue the commands:

root (hd0,0)

[ENTER]

chainloader /bootm

[TAB]

It should autocomplete to "chainloader /bootmgr".

Try again with the other two disks first partition, i.e. repeat the sequence changing just the number of the disk

root (hd1,0)

and

root (hd2,0)

Is it possible to simplify the setup?

I presume I may remove the Win7 entry from boot ini so that I have only the two options, XP or grub4dos.

Yes.

Then grldr would simply load Win7 without requiring further user input.

Guess that setup is one of the things I might be able to fix myself.

Will save current files and make new ones.

Yes, but you will need to edit the menu.lst file to remove all entries but the one you found working.

To clarify (and for the record):

Right now what you are doing (to boot Windows XP) is the "normal" way for XP, i.e.:

NTLDR->BOOT.INI->Windows XP

what you are doing (to boot Windows 7) is:

NTLDR->BOOT.INI->grub4dos->menu.lst->BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD->Windows 7

This is NOT what we initially hypothized that was:

For Windows 7:

BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD->Windows 7

For XP:

BOOTMGR->\boot\BCD->NTLDR->BOOT.INI->Windows XP

If you prefer, what was planned was to have BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager (and direct bootloader for Windows 7) and NTLDR as bootloader for XP, what you are having now is instead having NTLDR as primary bootmanager (and direct bootloader for XP), grub4dos as secondary bootmanager and BOOTMGR as bootloader (for Windows 7).

Of course, since it is working, you can "stay as you are" .

jaclaz

[Roffen]

Yes indeed, I had swapped SATA2 and SATA 3. Now they are in the correct order.

Think I will restore boot.ini and see what happens first.

ETA:

My only defense is that I've become accustomed to changing BIOS boot order without consideration for logical drive sequence.

It is great to see it working as you said it ought to!

I'll archive the grub4dos stuff just in case.

I have in mind installing (I really think I already have) Win2k on the 3rd drive and add that to the boot menu as well. Ought to be quite straightforward, or?

Edited July 30, 2012 by Roffen

[jaclaz]

Yes indeed, I had swapped SATA2 and SATA 3. Now they are in the correct order.

My only defense is that I've become accustomed to changing BIOS boot order without consideration for logical drive sequence.

NO actual need for defense at all, as you evidently very well know :

Life is "trying things to see if they work".

It is great to see it working as you said it ought to!

Good if the second or third entries work allright for you, you can delete the BOOTMGR and \boot\BCD from the Windows XP disk, those files are only used by the first entry.

I have in mind installing (I really think I already have) Win2k on the 3rd drive and add that to the boot menu as well. Ought to be quite straightforward, or?

Sure, that will be in the BOOT.INI on first disk:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows 2000" /fastdetect

or:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(1)\WINNT="Windows 2000" /fastdetect

the default for 2K is "WINNT", but you nay have changed the name of the install directory

BUT, it could also be in grub4dos menu.lst EITHER of :

title Windows 2000 on third disk first partiton
map (hd0) (hd2)
map (hd2) (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
chainloader +1

title Windows 2000 on third disk first partiton
map (hd0) (hd2)
map (hd2) (hd0)
map --hook
root (hd0,0)
chainloader /ntldr

In practice what this kind of grub4dos commands do is what you used to do manually by accessing the BIOS, i.e. change the BIOS hard disk order by re-mapping disks.

jaclaz

[Roffen]

Hi,

It seems I've got things working as intended now! Both XP and Win 7 share a 3rd disk common volume, with consistent drive letters when active.

I will have to take it easy for a while now to regain some strength, menial tasks on top of computer stuff has taken its toll.

So for now I'll just say thank you a lot for your patience and excellent assistance! I'd never have been able to sort it out on my own.

I suspect there are many subjects beside computer technology we might enjoy discussing. I am an autodidact so there are holes in most of my knowledge but I must have read more than a thousand books, all in English since I decided I'd have to learn that language at 16. Bradbury just one of my favourite writers, quite unique and surely one of the best!

So once again, tnx a lot jaclaz,

hpecuagn 73 de LA9JG as an old brasspounder (http://www.jacksjoint.com/brasspounder.htm) might sign off on the air - but have been QRT for a long time now.

Rolf

[jaclaz]

It seems I've got things working as intended now! Both XP and Win 7 share a 3rd disk common volume, with consistent drive letters when active.

I assume I can "put" you in the happy bunnies basket!

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=128727&st=10

I will have to take it easy for a while now to regain some strength, menial tasks on top of computer stuff has taken its toll.

Sure, you learned a whole bunch of new things, a lot like a crash-course in multi-booting, you need some time to digest the info.

So for now I'll just say thank you a lot for your patience and excellent assistance! I'd never have been able to sort it out on my own.

I suspect there are many subjects beside computer technology we might enjoy discussing. I am an autodidact so there are holes in most of my knowledge but I must have read more than a thousand books, all in English since I decided I'd have to learn that language at 16. Bradbury just one of my favourite writers, quite unique and surely one of the best!

So once again, tnx a lot jaclaz,

It has been a pleasure to try and assist you in your search for the solution , and is not the usual complimentary sentence, I sincerely hope that I will have in 30 or so years the same drive, curiosity and will to learn you just demonstrated.

I actually need to bow before your UNcommon spirit of adventure.

jaclaz

[Roffen]

Hi jaclaz, I hope you still are around here somewhere, or I'll have to look around for you

As you know, I am crazy and always looking for things to do with my computer. The latest fad is to install a SSD drive with the hope of making some operations a little faster.

Status:

I have three drives/three systems but will go for two drives and two systems: Win XP and Win7

My current boot.ini on the first drive, XP, is:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

I got a 128GB SSD drive, made two equal partitions, with XP on one and Win7 on the other partition. One or two of my old drives will be assigned as D, E, … drives as required.

I did however realize that only one partition could be active on the SSD so for the time being, I will keep my existing Win7 drive as it is, with no changes.

I start with the SSD as disk(0) partition(1) XP,

Old Win7 disk as disk(1) partition(1)

(BIOS boot order also is disk 0 before disk 1)

The boot.ini is activated, selecting XP works as it should.

But when I select Win7 I get msg about missing file:

Windows root > system32\hal.dll

But hal.dll is of course resident on C:\Windows\system32\

I haven’t tried putting a copy on the root, don’t know if that would be a good idea.

Don’t want to experiment too much in fear of creating further problems and disrupt system, I want to have 100% uptime available on email and google access.

Can you solve the problem for me?

(I have the BOOTMGR file and the boot directory and files in the XP root.) But don’t know If they are needed.

What I suspect is I may need to run bootpart. But I would prefer some input on how to do it.

I have saved all or most of oour earlier exchanges and have studied them but I have to admit, I feel like I am in deep water. Is there a limit to how far my brain is willing to go? I honeslty don't know, will be 83 on thursday so some deterioration is possible.

I have taken a look at http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/ but I don’t find anything of use there.

BTW, The Starman wrote in a old document: Iv'e saved "After initially using "Startup and Recovery to" view a certain BOOT.INI file under Win2k, I changed the "Active" partition with a disk editor and the nexxt time i used this feature (without rebooting!) it opened a completely different BOOT.INI from the root directory af the other partition."

Could that be used to allow me to actually have boh t XP C. and WIn7 C: volumes on the SSD, and make one or the other active from a startup script or something?

[jaclaz]

If you have your new SSD with a new install of XP booting fine, your next step should (could) be that of installing the 7 to the second partition.

The 7 install will:

1. set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager
   
2. add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)
   

We can of course put together *something* that will allow you to "temporarily" (i.e. until you do not install the new 7 to the SSD) access the old install of 7 on another disk, but whatever this setup will be it will be nonetheless overwritten when you will install the 7 to your SSD.

If you can list the BIOS disk order, I can easily make a new grub4dos menu.lst allowing you to use whatever:

First disk, first partition (hd0,0) -> SSD, New XP install, active partition in the MBR

First disk, second partition (hd0,1) IF primary, (hd0,4) IF logical volume inside extended partition ->SSD, partition on which you plan to install windows 7

Second disk? .....

Third disk? ......

(fill the dots)

jaclaz

Edited May 27, 2013 by jaclaz

[Roffen]

What I've done so far is to install XP on the 1st partition active, and Win7 on the 2nd partition primary.

They both look al right and will boot when the partition is set to active.

It suppose what remains is to provide a mechanism to permit selection of partition to boot at startup time, the active or the primary one.

XP will be the active one, but Win7 willl be the default in boot.ini. Unless there are reasons why Win7 ought to be the active? It doesn't matter to me.

For all further storage devices I don't think I should have any problem incorporating them properly with their respective systems.

As a safety measure until I am satsfied that the new setup runs smooth, I will keep both of the current drives for XP and Win7 intact so I may be able to return to the present setup.

Then I will partition my third disk for additional storage for each of the two systems.

(I haven't checked and the SSD is not connected now, but whe you say

"The 7 install will:

set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager

add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)"

does that really mean the 7 install did that? I'll check it out later today.)

[jaclaz]

"The 7 install will:

set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager

add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)"

does that really mean the 7 install did that? I'll check it out later today.)

That is the "normal" behaviour when you install a Windows 7 on a PC that already has Windows XP installed, unless you hide (or change the active status) of the partition on which XP is installed before installing the XP.

If you do the above the XP partition would normally get the drive letter "C:" and Windows 7 will have (say) the "D:" one, the BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD will be written to the C: (i.e. on the same partition on which NTLDR and BOOT.INI are).

If you installed the two systems "independently" you are having instead on first partition NTLDR+BOOT.INI and on second partition BOOTMGR+\boot\BCD, and the C: drive letter is given to the partition that you set as active and boot from, to the first one when you boot XP or to the second one when you boot windows 7.

Do this test:

1. add grldr to first partition
   
2. add to the BOOT.INI in first partition a line: C:\grldr="grub4dos"
   
3. when booting, select "grub4dos" and you will get to the grub> prompt
   
4. at it type (without double quotes): "find --set-root /bootmgr" and press [ENTER]
   
5. then: "root" [ENTER] <- you should have here (hd0,1) as feedback
   
6. then: "chainloader /bootmgr" [ENTER]
   
7. then "boot" [ENTER]
   
8. and the windows 7 on second partition should boot normally
   

jaclaz

[Roffen]

Will check it out now, but I believe the partitions were set active before installation, so either partition would have been C: during installation.

I did that to make sure the 7 installation would not mess with the already intstalled xp partition.

[Roffen]

Here's what I will do to make, i hope, a proper installation:

1. Leave the XP partition active, boot from cd, fire up install, delete and recreate a blank primary partition and install Win7 there. Right?

2. Download and run install grub4dosxxxx.exe on the XP partition.

3. Follow your instructions and I'll be done.

OK?

[jaclaz]

Here's what I will do to make, i hope, a proper installation:

1. Leave the XP partition active, boot from cd, fire up install, delete and recreate a blank primary partition and install Win7 there. Right?

2. Download and run install grub4dosxxxx.exe on the XP partition.

3. Follow your instructions and I'll be done.

OK?

NO, actually the idea was to see what happens with those few grub4dos commands BEFORE touching your current install on the SSD.

I mean, if you like to have C: as the "OS partition" when either XP or 7 is booted, you have already the working configuration that you desire and it'0s just a matter to set a provision for it in the BOOT.INI.

You DO NOT WANT to "install" grub4dos!

You want to ONLY extract form the .zip and copy the file grldr to the root of the active XP partition (along with the already existiong NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI) and NOTHING ELSE.

jaclaz

[Roffen]

OK, will do!

[Roffen]

The specs in the lower half of the disk management screeen shows the XP partition as the first (active) and the 7 partition as the second.

executing find --set-root... returns (hd0,0) * should have been (hd0,1)

I entered

1. root

2. chainloder/bootmgr. * got an error msg.

The list at the upper half of the screen have 7 in the first line and XP in the second line but I presume the lower half is what counts.

But as you noted, I actually did install the two systems indepedently, and to me that seems to mean the boot setup somehow must be reversed. But I'd prefer to hsve XP as the deafult.

Or I may start all over from scratch like I suggested before.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Roffen