"Not enough memory to run this program" issue

[loblo]

After running the OS for a while I may run into that error when trying to launch a new program but I had (last time it happened for example):

More than 1GB of free physical RAM

~40% of free User resources

~75% of free GDI resources

~40% of free LDTs

And when it happens it affects anything I will try to run however little resource consuming it may be and I am not even able to open a new folder window by clicking on one in the desktop unless I close some other program I have running.

So the question is: What "memory" am I dealing with here?

Any ideas guys?

Edited May 17, 2011 by loblo

[loblo]

Thanks, I thought it could perhaps be a system arena issue since the error message is the same as the one I would get on trying to run a DOS box if I had more than 512MB of VCACHE and this would occur immediately in a freshly booted system.

But here the thing is that this will not happen on a freshly booted system, It may occur only after some time, say 8-10 hours of use, opening and closing many programs in the meantime, which points to the depletion over time of some free memory resource as I am able to run much more programs concurrently on a freshly booted system than those I have running after 10 hours when this error begins to occur.

Btw, Windows ME doesn't become unstable with above 512MB of RAM, that's more of an urban myth than anything else.

Edited May 17, 2011 by loblo

[dencorso]

Too big a VCache, too many open DOS Boxes, too big an AGP aperture, or a big (> 512 MiB) XMS ramdisk being filled are the most probable reasons for depletion of the system arena,as well as any combination of the above factors. Igor Leyko's article, the "Maximum Number of DOS Boxes retired MSKB article and RLoew's posts included in the noteworthy posts list, all of them in the in the 1st post of the > 1GiB thread are references worthy of reading and musing about, in relation to this issue. Do you, perchance, use Frank Uberto's XMSDSK or any other ramdisk that relies on XMS?

[loblo]

Not using any ramdisk dencorso nor was there any single DOS box involved, VCache was around 400MB and AGP aperture 128MB. I have now reduced the VCache a bit to around 350MB and reduced the AGP aperture to the minimum I can in the BIOS and which is 32MB. Also I removed some low level runtime Photoshop Album 2 had apparently installed and that I had overlooked when installing it recently, namely gearaspi.vxd.

After doing that the problem seems to have gone away and I am suspecting the removal of gearaspi.vxd is actually the fix since I can't recall that problem occuring before having that file running on my system. Could it be possible that this file was slowly filling the system arena with garbage over time even though it was not obviously used for anything?

Edited May 18, 2011 by loblo

[dencorso]

Possibly. Let's test it further: return VCache and the AGP aperture to their previous values and lets see what happens... It all remains normal it was gearaspi.vxd all right, and you've nailed it. After that's settled, I'd recommend keeping the aperture 128 MiB (that is: equal to the amount of RAM in the video board, up to 128 MiB or, as in your case, 128 MiB regardless, if you have more than 128 MiB) but reducing VCache to 393216 (= 384MiB). Gape found it first, but I've tested it for a long time, and never found a situation where more is proven to be needed.

[loblo]

OK I have now rebooted with 450MB of VCache and an AGP aperture of 256MB (Max the BIOS will allow) and no issues with opening Dos boxes. I'll see how the system fares over time and if the issue I had experienced shows up again.

I am not sure why you recommend an AGP value equal to the amount of video memory. As far as I understand it the recommendation should be that the more RAM there is on the video card the less there is need for a large AGP aperture. I have a 256MB graphic card btw (XFX 7800GS).

Edited May 19, 2011 by loblo

[dencorso]

For old cards with much less memory, that was the bottom line for good performance: the aperture should not be less than onboard memory. However, lots of discussions in various forums over time conviced me that more than the same amount of RAM onboard is rarely used. In fact 128 MiB seems to me to be the best value for >= 128 MiB of onboard RAM (which really means 128 MiB and 256 MiB, since I've no personal experience with boards having more than 128 MiB, up to now). I use an aperture of 64 MiB with a 32 MiB GeForce2, while Dave-H uses 32 MiB with a 256 MiB board, without problems, so it seems the aperture is really needed less and less, as the board has more and more RAM onboard... You may be right. In any case, if used, the aperture will use up memory in the system arena, so that the less you set for it, the less it can take out, if and when actually used.

[loblo]

Unless I am wrong of course, the AGP aperture value is the amount of system RAM that is allowed to be used as a (slower) substitute for video RAM in case applications (3D games mostly) need more video memory than the graphic card provides so that if I was happy with with say 128MB of Video RAM + 128MB of AGP aperture, I'll have more than enough of AGP aperture with 32MB when using a 256MB card for running the same applications.

[dencorso]

It makes sense. And unclutters the system arena, at the same time. So now I think that 32 MiB of AGP aperture and MaxFileCache=393216 (= 384MiB) ought to be the optimal setting for your system. I hadn't stopped to reflect upon values for the AGP aperture in a long time... thanks for the opportunity to do it now: things seem much clearer to me at this point. You rock!

[loblo]

Ok, I think I can say that the problem was down to that gearaspi.vxd since the issue has not reoccured a single time even though I have now increased the Vcache value to 512MB (524288) while keeping an AGP aperture of 256MB.

Why do you recommend a Vcache value of 384MB if I may ask? I have seen it mentioned here and there but without understanding what issue exactly it meant to avoid. I don't seem to have any issues with 512MB here.

[dencorso]

While increasing the VCache up to 384MiB actually improves the overall system performance, it seems to improve no more, by increasing it beyond 384MiB. This is the result of tests I've done in my own machine and in those others is serviced (now there is only one besides mine, but once they were 12). I'd have to dig into very old records to find actual data to show you. Those machines had up to 1 GiB RAM, besides my own which began with 512 MiB and now has 3 GiB. Gape reached the same conclusion independently, and added that tweak to his uSP (v. 2.1a), although he seems to have removed it in later versions. RLoew patches VCache.VxD to allow for a maximum of 512 MiB (instead of the MS default valuer of 800 MiB, which does cause problems). Yet, I think sticking to 384 MiB preserves precious system arena memory for other uses. One good test of how full your system arena is, is how many DOS boxes can you open: if you can open all 64 and get the expected BSOD (Page Fault) on trying to open the 65th, then you've got plenty of space, but if not, you'll not get a BSOD, but instead of it a "There is not enough memory available to run this program" message. Of course, all this is a bit academic, since I cannot envisage any use for, say 16 DOS boxes open at the same time, let alone 64. Now, what is not academic is the need for Usher's fix for safe mode even with Win ME... be sure to edit your SYSTEM.CB accordingly, and while you're at it you might as well add Tihiy's 800x600 driver for safe mode (that's whence Usher got the idea for his fix), for which there's a pointer in Usher's first post.

[loblo]

I could open 50 DOS boxes (command.com) before getting the "not enough memory" error message and was unable to launch any more of them but was still able to launch more Win32 apps, albeit not too many as my USER resources where then too low to carry on.

Thanks for the tips about safe mode but I never go into safe mode, whatever maintenance I need to do on the system drive I do it from a live CD.

[dencorso]

I never use Safe Mode, too. And because of using the RAM Limitation Patch, I don't need Usher's tweak. But I've set up Tihiy's video driver all the same, just in case.

Now, with 32 MiB aperture and 384MiB VCache you'd probably be able to open more than 50 DOS boxes, but I don't think that'd do you any difference, for everyday use.