Seagate 7200.11 3500620as 500gb problem

[mkcheznous]

OK - this is my first post - so be gentle.

Before you ask I have spent a good hour and half reading through the previous posts on this drive type - so bear with me.

I have a Dell Vostro 200 running XP Home.

After running fine for a year and a half (ie out of warranty), it decided not to boot up on Friday evening.

After some investigation in the bios - i discovered that the drive was not present!

Following some internet investigation i via the seagate site was directed to the Dell Site where there is a firmware upgrade to take it from DE12 to DE13.

I applied the upgrade following Dell's instructions and it appeared to do it but when I booted the PC it will still fails to find the drive.

In desperation I tried the update again but with the same result.

1. Can anybody give any insight into why the firmware update would not have the desired effect ? I have seen the procedures for sorting it using hyperterminal but is not clear why this method is necessary.

2. I have read somewhere that Seagate will provide a free data recovery service. Is that true, still valid - I am UK based.

3. Foolishly the data (photos of the kids etc) was not backed up. If Seagate will not help, can anybody recommend somebody ideally in the UK who could for a reasonable cost ? I am not sure I fancy the hyperterminal route myself.

thanks in advance

[jaclaz]

What you report does not make (much) sense.

Your drive is EITHER "bricked" OR NOT. (binary, 0/1, Yes/No, On/Off)

I.e. it is EITHER seen and normally accessible AND THEN you can update it's firmware OR it is not (and then you simply cannot do ANYTHING to it).

Please do read the read-me-first:

It should (hopefully) clear your doubts about the symptoms you should have, the reason why you have them and the way to fix them (hopefully).

Seagate has been VERY UNLIKE "linear" in it's approach to recovering data (for free or for a charge), but I doubt that ANYWAY it will cover "OEM" hard disks.

Search the board for posts containing keyword "i365" (that's the name of the Seagate Recovery Company).

It is against the Rules of the board to offer such services (see Rule #13):

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/18408-forum-rules-updated-must-read/

But the procedure is relatively easy, the cost of the interface is trivial and I am pretty sure you can find among your friends someone with an even minimal electric/electronic experience capable of following the needed steps, provided that the symptoms are the "right" ones and thus the solution is actually the "right" one as well.

If you have no friends with such experience, most probably your local computer shop or maybe mobile phone repair shop can do the fix and already has the needed hardware.

jaclaz

[mkcheznous]

What you report does not make (much) sense.

Your drive is EITHER "bricked" OR NOT. (binary, 0/1, Yes/No, On/Off)

I.e. it is EITHER seen and normally accessible AND THEN you can update it's firmware OR it is not (and then you simply cannot do ANYTHING to it).

Please do read the read-me-first:

I thought I was pretty clear in my post that the drive is not seen. I also indicated I read the various posts including obviously the one you pointed me to before I posted.

Most people who have had this problem would first visit the seagate or oem (dell in my case) sites for resolution. Those sites suggest people with my problem should do the firmware fix using a bootable CD or other media. They

do not

state that a bricked drive cannot be repaired using this method. In fact on their forums various people have applied a firmware fix - some not successfully granted.

I suspected that if it is bricked it cannot be firmware updated but it is not clear from reading the material on this and the other sites I mentioned and I was seeking confirmation of this - you have now done so for me - thanks.

It should (hopefully) clear your doubts about the symptoms you should have, the reason why you have them and the way to fix them (hopefully).

Seagate has been VERY UNLIKE "linear" in it's approach to recovering data (for free or for a charge), but I doubt that ANYWAY it will cover "OEM" hard disks.

Search the board for posts containing keyword "i365" (that's the name of the Seagate Recovery Company).

It is against the Rules of the board to offer such services (see Rule #13):

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/18408-forum-rules-updated-must-read/

- sorry about this - my mistake - I would not want to get anyone into trouble.

But the procedure is relatively easy, the cost of the interface is trivial and I am pretty sure you can find among your friends someone with an even minimal electric/electronic experience capable of following the needed steps, provided that the symptoms are the "right" ones and thus the solution is actually the "right" one as well.

I understand what you are saying but one would not go this route if there was any possiblity of a firmware solution - this is what I wanted to understand. - I now do so and will follow this route. One problem I am having is so far identifying where to purchase the correct ca-42 cable - there appears to be various versions. As an alternative I have looked at a ttl-usb cable one on a well known auction site.

The description states:

"The Silicon Labs CP2102 USB to TTL Serial Cable is designed to allow simple rapid connection of microprocessors to the USB interface. It allows legacy products using PC serial ports to be easily upgraded to USB. The cable contains a USB to serial converter chip and is terminated in a standard 0.1” pitch header. The serial data is at standard 5v TTL levels allowing it to interface directly to the micro-processor of the intended application. The RX input is also 3v3 compatiable and if your 3v3 microcontroller is 5v tolerant then it can be used directly with 3v3 systems. All inputs/outputs are protected for shorts and ESD, and the +5v output is regulated."

Would this do the job or not ?

If you have no friends with such experience, most probably your local computer shop or maybe mobile phone repair shop can do the fix and already has the needed hardware.

I did approach a local PC shop but they wanted to try and repair the disk by fixing the 'bad sectors' - they were not aware of the seagate problem with these drives - so I walked away.

jaclaz

[jaclaz]

Well, you may have "skimmed" through the given thread, but probably NOT actually "read" it.

Try again, expecially points:

#5 (where it is said that firmware update can ONLY be applied on an unbricked drive)

#10 (where it is said to "Please DO NOT use a CA-42 cable BECAUSE there are so many versions that it is unlikely that you get the right one at first attempt"):

Data cable (typically Nokia CA-42):

This is deprecated.

Not because it won't work, but due to the fact that there are so many different versions of these cables, both "original" and "cheap/fakes" that it may be difficult to find the "right" connections, expecially for a newbie.

#10 (where it is said to "Please use ONLY a 3.3v TTL level interface") :

Generic TTL considerations:

The hard disk "likes" "real TTL" (the one that has a "high" at max 3.3 V).

Nonetheless a TTL/CMOS (that can have a "high" at as much as 5 V) may work.

It is unknown whether the HD has a "peaks flattening" circuit of some kind and there are mixed reports.

Rule of the thumb:

there are NO reports of failures at 3.3V

there are a few, not fully confirmed, reports of 5V working

Please note that two different converters "labeled" as "5V" may behave differently due to the not fully standard behaviour of some of these circuits.

#11 (where it is said to "Please search the main thread for links to converters that were reported to be working") :

The "main" thread:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=128807

is choking full of links and photos and help given for a number of different data cables (mostly "NOKIA") ad converters, both USB and RS-232.

TAKE YOUR TIME on it if you have doubts, most probably the solution is ALREADY there, BEFORE posting a request for help.

No, that converter you were talking about may work, but you are taking chances that the controller on board is "5v tolerant" something for which we do not have definitive evidence, in a nutshell:

1. 3.3v will work
   
2. 5v/3.3v may work
   
3. 5v WON'T work
   

Why taking chances with your data?

We can put a link to a cable on e-bay , most probably you were looking at this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-TTL-Serial-Cable-/290445149419?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_CablesConnectors_RL&hash=item439fe144eb

For a couple of quids more, you can get this one:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB-3V3-Logic-converter-3V3-regulated-output-/310151928700?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item48367edb7c

which should be the "real thing".

I tried my best to word that post as accurately as possible, but obviously being English not my mother tongue I may have created something that is not easy to understand, since you are from the UK, if you have any suggestion to make the above concepts more clear, you are welcome.

jaclaz

[mkcheznous]

I really don't want to get into an arguement with somebody who is obviously trying to help me and has taken the time to provide loads of useful info but I have re-read the thread again and I think the problem is (as you supect) in the way you make some of your points (in English) - though others may disagree.

1/ I find nowhere in point #5 where it states "firmware update can ONLY be applied on an unbricked drive". It does advise securing your data first but that is not the same at all as saying it will not work. For example somebody would sensibly save the original of a photo before editing it in say photoshop but they don't have to before editing.

2/ CA-42 - You do not say dont use it explicitly in the thread - you advise other options are preferable and give valid reasons - but this is not the same - it does not exclude using ca-42 as such. People will have tried this as it is a very cheap option (£2.50) - if it works and pretty easy to set up. If it doesn't then they might go the ttl-usb route you prefer.

3/ thanks for the comments regarding the cable I found - as you state others have used it successfully but it may be a risk to far.

Thanks for the additional info and links.

[jaclaz]

1/ I find nowhere in point #5 where it states "firmware update can ONLY be applied on an unbricked drive". It does advise securing your data first but that is not the same at all as saying it will not work. For example somebody would sensibly save the original of a photo before editing it in say photoshop but they don't have to before editing.

I'll add a more explicit warning.

2/ CA-42 - You do not say dont use it explicitly in the thread - you advise other options are preferable and give valid reasons - but this is not the same - it does not exclude using ca-42 as such. People will have tried this as it is a very cheap option (£2.50) - if it works and pretty easy to set up. If it doesn't then they might go the ttl-usb route you prefer.

Well, that is the problem if I would write that CA-42 cable doesn't work it would be a lie , they do work, most probably ALL of them, original and "fake", do work, IF:

1. the cable is NOT damaged when opening the connector
   
2. the CORRECT connections are found
   
3. the cable is NOT damaged in attempts to find the righ connctions
   
4. the PROPER driver is found
   
5. the PROPER driver is PROPERLY installed
   

We have reports of people trying as many as 4 or 5 "CA-42" cables from different sources before finding one that worked for them.

As I see it, if you ALREADY have a CA-42 cable lying around in the "things that may be of use some day" drawer, you have nothing to lose in trying it , but if you have to buy one you'd better invest some more money in a "proper" TTL converter, known to be always working.

I will try to add the above to hopefully better clear the situation.

3/ thanks for the comments regarding the cable I found - as you state others have used it successfully but it may be a risk to far.

Thanks for the additional info and links.

You are welcome.

jaclaz

[jaclaz]

Points added/stressed on "read-me-first".

jaclaz

[mkcheznous]

Points added/stressed on "read-me-first".

jaclaz

Crystal clear now and thanks again.

Just hope I did not wreck the drive with the attempted firmware update I did

[anuragj]

i updated my firmware before i came across this article/forum .

Now ctrl z does not work.

Can any one help? Plzz

anuragj

[mkcheznous]

I would not worry that you applied the firmware upgrade - your data is probably OK - if it was before.

In the end I contacted Seagate (in the UK) and they collected (DHL) and unbricked my drive and returned it in 4 days. It was sent to Holland to be done. In fact it took less than two minutes to do the actual fix. This was all done free of charge agreed in advance with them. All I had to do was describe the problem and quote the drive serial number.

If they will do it for free this is the route I would take. I would have followed the advice on this forum if they had charged because I could not be 100% sure that the fault was the one discussed though I suspected it.

Hope this helps.