How to install XP & Win7 exclusively?

[andwan0]

I would like to install both Windows XP & Windows 7 on the same PC, clean, vanilla, from scratch.

Problem is the setup.

Should I install XP in the first partition 0, then Win7 in partition 1 afterwards? Will Win7 put some boot files/folders into partition 0 in order for it to work/boot properly? I prefer if Win7 doesn't put boot files into the same partition as XP, since I want to IMAGE the partitions after installation and maybe swap about with XP & some other OS (linux or 98 or something else).

Should I create a BOOT partition 0 first then install XP into partition 1 and Win7 into partition 2?

If I did this, then I could install my own boot loader (GRUB4DOS) in partition 0... and don't have to worry about Win7 boot files lingering in XP partition etc.

How to manage all this? Please advise...

[GrofLuigi]

I managed to do something like this with partition tools (booting from DOS-based CD). I don't remember exactly which tool was it - Paragon Partition Manager or Acronis Disk Director, but all partition tools should be able to do these basic operations, even the free ones.

It's kind of a lot of work, but the reward is - fully independent partitions (and each is named C: when booted into itself, which is what I wanted).

Prepare two basic partitions at the start of the HDD

Format them as you like (NTFS).

Install XP to the first one normally, leave the second one empty, adjust the XP installation as you like and make sure it works.

Install some boot manager (there are plenty to choose from, I use OSL2000; make sure it's kinda advanced so it detects the partitions on its own).

Boot the partition manager again, HIDE the XP partition, make the 7's partition ACTIVE.

Install 7 on the second partition (during setup, make sure you don't let it touch the first one; you'll probably need to go advanced; make sure its own partition is formatted first and don't let it format it)

Unhide the first partition

This is the tricky part, the boot manager had to be reinstalled (simply by running its setup.exe), but all worked well and INDEPENDENT. I believe I made the mistake that I didn't make the first partition active again (reasoning it shouldn't matter for the boot manager, and it shouldn't - if you choose your boot manager wisely, but it got installed on the second partition; it was fixed easily and the first installation continued to work).

Hope that made some sense.

GL

*Edit (and clarification): Don't let the second installation (during setup) see the other OS or it will 'take over' - change the boot manager on the other partition and/or assign itself another drive letter (that is solvable, but other problems remain - it will never be INDEPENDENT).

Edited May 6, 2010 by GrofLuigi

[Andromeda43]

I would like to install both Windows XP & Windows 7 on the same PC, clean, vanilla, from scratch.

Problem is the setup.

Should I install XP in the first partition 0, then Win7 in partition 1 afterwards? Will Win7 put some boot files/folders into partition 0 in order for it to work/boot properly? I prefer if Win7 doesn't put boot files into the same partition as XP, since I want to IMAGE the partitions after installation and maybe swap about with XP & some other OS (linux or 98 or something else).

Should I create a BOOT partition 0 first then install XP into partition 1 and Win7 into partition 2?

If I did this, then I could install my own boot loader (GRUB4DOS) in partition 0... and don't have to worry about Win7 boot files lingering in XP partition etc.

How to manage all this? Please advise...

Your question becomes null and void if you will only set up a second hard drive on your computer. Then you never need to worry about one OS interacting with the another. Hard drives are so cheap any more that trying to cram two OS's into one HD is foolish.

With two HD's, each OS has its own private drive and you even have space for a second partition to store misc. stuff, related to each OS.

I currently have two versions of XP, Vista, and Windows 7 Ultimate all on the same computer, but on different HD's.

The boot menu provided by my MSI motherboard allows me to select which drive I want to boot to.

Just a thought!

Doc B)

[andwan0]

I would like to install both Windows XP & Windows 7 on the same PC, clean, vanilla, from scratch.

Problem is the setup.

Should I install XP in the first partition 0, then Win7 in partition 1 afterwards? Will Win7 put some boot files/folders into partition 0 in order for it to work/boot properly? I prefer if Win7 doesn't put boot files into the same partition as XP, since I want to IMAGE the partitions after installation and maybe swap about with XP & some other OS (linux or 98 or something else).

Should I create a BOOT partition 0 first then install XP into partition 1 and Win7 into partition 2?

If I did this, then I could install my own boot loader (GRUB4DOS) in partition 0... and don't have to worry about Win7 boot files lingering in XP partition etc.

How to manage all this? Please advise...

Your question becomes null and void if you will only set up a second hard drive on your computer. Then you never need to worry about one OS interacting with the another. Hard drives are so cheap any more that trying to cram two OS's into one HD is foolish.

With two HD's, each OS has its own private drive and you even have space for a second partition to store misc. stuff, related to each OS.

I currently have two versions of XP, Vista, and Windows 7 Ultimate all on the same computer, but on different HD's.

The boot menu provided by my MSI motherboard allows me to select which drive I want to boot to.

Just a thought!

Doc B)

Yes I love to install a 2nd HD. But this is a company work PC and I can't justify them buying me another HD. I just have to make do with what I got... one HD.

[andwan0]

I managed to do something like this with partition tools (booting from DOS-based CD). I don't remember exactly which tool was it - Paragon Partition Manager or Acronis Disk Director, but all partition tools should be able to do these basic operations, even the free ones.

It's kind of a lot of work, but the reward is - fully independent partitions (and each is named C: when booted into itself, which is what I wanted).

Prepare two basic partitions at the start of the HDD

Format them as you like (NTFS).

Install XP to the first one normally, leave the second one empty, adjust the XP installation as you like and make sure it works.

Install some boot manager (there are plenty to choose from, I use OSL2000; make sure it's kinda advanced so it detects the partitions on its own).

Boot the partition manager again, HIDE the XP partition, make the 7's partition ACTIVE.

Install 7 on the second partition (during setup, make sure you don't let it touch the first one; you'll probably need to go advanced; make sure its own partition is formatted first and don't let it format it)

Unhide the first partition

This is the tricky part, the boot manager had to be reinstalled (simply by running its setup.exe), but all worked well and INDEPENDENT. I believe I made the mistake that I didn't make the first partition active again (reasoning it shouldn't matter for the boot manager, and it shouldn't - if you choose your boot manager wisely, but it got installed on the second partition; it was fixed easily and the first installation continued to work).

Hope that made some sense.

GL

*Edit (and clarification): Don't let the second installation (during setup) see the other OS or it will 'take over' - change the boot manager on the other partition and/or assign itself another drive letter (that is solvable, but other problems remain - it will never be INDEPENDENT).

I love this idea. Have you physically tried this from start to finish successfully?

Currently I assume bootloaders must be installed on the first partition. So if I installed XP first partition, it will have XP ntldr bootloader. Then if I install Win7 on 2nd partition, it would put it's new Win7 bootloader into first partition, hence overwriting/updating XP's bootloader. I don't like this...

I just installed XP just now and imaged it using DriveImage XML. This is before installed Win7.

Then am going to install Win7 and image that. Guess what, Win7's bootloader is in XPs partition now.

What if I restore XP partition? I loose Win7 bootloader.

What if I restore Win7 in partition 0? It won't have a bootloader.

See my dillema?

[GrofLuigi]

I love this idea. Have you physically tried this from start to finish successfully?

Yes, few weeks ago and it worked flawlessly (I deleted 7 soon after trying - it's not mature for me yet (or the other way around)).

Currently I assume bootloaders must be installed on the first partition. So if I installed XP first partition, it will have XP ntldr bootloader. Then if I install Win7 on 2nd partition, it would put it's new Win7 bootloader into first partition, hence overwriting/updating XP's bootloader. I don't like this...

I just installed XP just now and imaged it using DriveImage XML. This is before installed Win7.

Then am going to install Win7 and image that. Guess what, Win7's bootloader is in XPs partition now.

What if I restore XP partition? I loose Win7 bootloader.

What if I restore Win7 in partition 0? It won't have a bootloader.

See my dillema?

I saw it all the time. That's how I did it before and ended up in your situation. Read my post again carefully, especially the edit. No imaging necessary (except for backup). I'm writing this from the first partition that was intact all the time and I still have boot manager entry for the second one, if I want to install again ANY WINDOWS OPERATING SYSTEM - I just need to hide this partition, mark the second active, install, unhide, mark the first one active. You need to add just an extra step - instalation of a boot manager.

GL

* Edit: replaced boot loader with boot manager (I used the term incorrectly in my previous EDIT and maybe created a confusion). Boot manager (elsewhere in my posts) is GRUB4DOS and similar, boot loader is BOOT.INI and Vista/7's thing. Each boot loader will go on it's own partition, while the boot manager goes to the first partition (although I suspect it can be any basic partition, as long as it's marked as active).

Edited May 7, 2010 by GrofLuigi

[uid0]

If you're using grub4dos, and starting with a blank disk, you could use partnew to set up the partitions:

title 0-20GB 
partnew --active (hd0,0) 0x07 63 41929587
pause

title 20-40GB
partnew --active (hd0,0) 0x07 41929650 41929650
pause

This way the other partition isn't just hidden, it appears as unallocated space.

Probably a higher risk strategy than just hiding partitions, but it avoids the 4 primary partition limit (I've currently got 6).

[jaclaz]

@GrofLuigi

Well, NO.

Both NTLDR and BOOTMGR represent BOTH a bootmanager (with limited features) AND an OS loader, since both can load "something" else than their own OS, like, as an example, a bootsector or a previous OS loader.

@andwan0

You may find useful to study and understand fully the concept of "boot" and "system" partition (the one that MS has got viceversa), which is nicely illustrated here:

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/multiboot.html

http://www.multibooters.co.uk/system.html

Since grub4dos can be added BOTH to NTLDR's BOOT.INI (as grldr) and to BOOTMGR's BCD (as grldr.mbr) and can directly chainload BOTH NTLDR and BOOTMGR it could be the workaround you are seeking to avoid bootsector code during re-install or need to use MBRFIX/bootsect.exe.

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/Grub4dos.htm

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/install_windows.htm

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/boot.htm

@uid0

JFYI, an even more sophisticated approach :

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7138&hl=

jaclaz

Edited May 7, 2010 by jaclaz

[GrofLuigi]

@GrofLuigi

Well, NO.

Both NTLDR and BOOTMGR represent BOTH a bootmanager (with limited features) AND an OS loader, since both can load "something" else than their own OS, like, as an example, a bootsector or a previous OS loader.

I knew that , I just oversimplified a bit in order to make it clear which one I'm talking about.

But the method works, doesn't it? (I'm NOT claiming I invented any part of it, just don't remember where I picked it up from. Most probably, from everywhere. )

GL

[GrofLuigi]

Maybe it's the difference about bootmanagers?

As far as I can see (I never used it myself), Grub4Dos goes into Boot.ini/BCD, while OSL2000 installs only onto the bootsector (or however it's called) of the partition and it's the first thing run after BIOS. After it finishes, it gives control to Boot.ini/BCD.

I think GAG (freeware) also works this way.

Now that I read on a little, I think this method in Grub4Dos world is either grubinst or bootlace.

The point is not to touch Boot.ini/BCD of the other partition.

GL

[jaclaz]

Just to clear the issue (since this topic was linked to from here: )

Grub4dos can be:

• installed to the MBR (+a few hidden sector) (file grldr.mbr)
  
• loaded from a bootsector (file grldr) see examples here: http://reboot.pro/2362/
  
• invoked from DOS (file grub.exe)
  
• loaded as a Linux kernel (file grub.exe)
  
• added as an option to BOOT.INI (file grldr)
  
• added as an option to the BCD (file grldr.mbr)
  
• used as CD/DVD bootsector (file grldr)
  

Notes:

• grldr and grub.exe are "self-standing" whilst grldr.mbr needs ALSO file grldr.
  
• grldr can reside on *ANY* partition (even hidden ones) as long as formatted as FAT12/16/32 , NTFS or Ext2/3/4
  

The Guide for it is here:

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/Grub4dos.htm

jaclaz