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Windows 7 Classic Start Menu.... is here.


jim2029
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When I have my working desk and I put some book on it or some document, when I come tomorrow to my job, I want that document to be in the same place. If cleaning lady (or secretary) moved it to the left, to the right, or pt all the document one on the top of the other, she will be warned, next time will be fired.

That isn't a valid comparison - all your start menu items are in the exact same place they were before.

So, Classic Start menu had the possibility to put the things right there I wanted. Now, with new concept, you always have to search for your programs in "Start Menu", you always have to read and I loose serious time finding what I want. Now, I have (again) started to use desktop - I have to put all icons I often use to the desktop?!? Is that a progres????

What forces you to search for things? They are still in the same place as they were before, you don't have to search for something that you know is there. I don't have to search for anything if I don't want to.

NO! I don't want to type the names of the programs to be abel to find them? Sometimes, I don't even remember the names of the programs in the moment, but I know where it is and I know how its icon looks and I just click on it and that is it.

You still have the icons, you still have the labels. I fail to see the difference. Once you get into all programs, the menus are the same, besides one being confined into a much neater menu. But if you want it to be bigger, I would suggest adding some buttons to the right of the start menu, this makes the start menu bigger.

This whole new Start menu was probably promoted just because new Windows7 mobile will have the same menu concept (for new touch screen phones where MS probably hopes to make a boom) and nothing else.

It was present in Vista, and Windows Mobile and Windows NT are not related in any way. Besides being completely different concepts and completely different markets, the teams hardly talk to each other.

This is bad concept, it is not good to force users to know by heart the names of the programs and, for you who think new Start menu is "the best thing", ok, you are so clever (or payed by MS) but do you really think that so many people who like old Classic Start menu deserve the right to choose???

PAID BY MICROSOFT? I feel insulted by this statement. Do you think that just because we like a Microsoft product or feature, we are PAID by them? Of course you have the right to choose a different start menu - go download a different shell since you don't seem to like explorer. Or download Linux. Or hell, DON'T upgrade to Windows 7. But DON'T even think of considering all the people who enjoy this functionality Microsoft employees. That is a ridiculous claim.

What abaut if car manufacturers force all of us to drive just blue cars???

This is bad move for MS :-(

Who is forcing you to use Windows 7? You can still get downgrades to Windows XP and Windows Vista on some machines, and you don't have to upgrade your present machine. I don't understand. And if you already have Windows 7, that app will bring back the classic start menu. It just sounds like a lot of people are resistant to change to me, but I will respect your opinion that the classic start menu is better, because everyone works in a different way.

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minimalp.jpg

How could this be much slower than your fast and classic start menu? And no I don't have it this way either, I just removed if not all things from the (super)taskbar and added these things to the start menu.

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> That isn't a valid comparison - all your start menu items are in the exact same place they were before.

No, they are not. That is the truth only if you have just a couple of applications installed. If that is not the case, you have to scroll up/down to find them. Then, you miss them. Then you have to search for application again.

Sorry, but this is not just my opinion. I have a contact with a lot of Win Users and all of them (during Vista) asked me to set them Classic start menu as they hate the new one.

MS should do some search among current users to check their opinions, not just to force new concept for "beginners".

> What forces you to search for things?

New Win7 Start menu. I should have LCD monitor od 3000 pixels of vertical resolution to have all the things on it and to be able to check its contents fast.

> You still have the icons, you still have the labels. I fail to see the difference. Once you get into all programs, the menus are the same, besides one being confined into a much neater menu. But if you want it to be bigger, I would suggest adding some buttons to the right of the start menu, this makes the start menu bigger.

Sorry, you are missing the point or my english is not good enough. If that is the case, sorry, I don't know how better to explain you the feeling I have during new Start menu usage.

> It was present in Vista, and Windows Mobile and Windows NT are not related in any way. Besides being completely different concepts and completely different markets, the teams hardly talk to each other.

I have just assumed what is going on: Windows7 Mobile is announced and this new menu concept really looks like the menus on currently popular mobile phones. Please, just check the way current "no keyboard" Smart phones navigate through address books or program lists. You'll see the similarity.

Logical conclusion is that MS is trying to prepare users for new Win7Mo Start menu concept and hopes that will keep the customers stick to their Windows 7 Mobile solution when everything looks just the same as on their (Win7) desktop PCs.

I don't blame them, I would do the same, but, just to avoid such discussions as this one is, I would allow users to have a choice. Internet is flooded with similar discussions.

Do you think this shows that MS made a mistake with removing Classic Start menu?

I think so.

> PAID BY MICROSOFT? I feel insulted by this statement. Do you think that just because we like a Microsoft product or feature, we are PAID by them? Of course you have the right to choose a different start menu

Don't be insulated. I would be glad to work for Microsoft.

I didn't say that all of you work for Microsoft, but, during my search for Classic start menu, I found a lot of sites/forums regarding this and whenever someone says something against MS regarding Classic menu, there is always an answer:

"You are man of the past"; "Don't look back, look in the future"; "It was time to remove it..." or something like that I don't remember the exact phrases now. All those comments were short and look just like copy/pasted ?!?!?

This all looked like a marketing campaign not to repeat the situation with Vista (that was also good OS if you ask me, even at the beginning, but you had to have a newer and better PC).

> - go download a different shell since you don't seem to like explorer.

How? I don't want to use Windows Blinds or similar. I just want to use Microsoft OS without addons because of stability.

> Or download Linux.

No. I don't like it. Too complicated, no standards. Which distribution do you recommend?

> Or hell, DON'T upgrade to Windows 7.

But I want to. I want its functionalities, its easier way to remove USB Flash disk, its speed...

And with all that I want to use Classic start menu.

> But DON'T even think of considering all the people who enjoy this functionality Microsoft employees. That is a ridiculous claim.

It was not what I said.

As it was stated a couple of times (I saw that on the internet), new Start menu is much more preferred than the old Start menu by the beginners.

I saw a lot of professionals (or the people who claim they are) complaining because Classic menu is missing.

> Who is forcing you to use Windows 7? You can still get downgrades to Windows XP and Windows Vista on some machines, and you don't have to upgrade your present machine. I don't understand.

Microsoft forces users to use newer versions of operating systems if you didn't know. They just cancel support and what you can do? To risk getting some virus through some hole in OS or what? So, the only way to be relativelly secure is to use newest OS version.

Do you know that there are a lot of companies that still use Win2000? Now they'll have to switch to Vista/Win7 just because MS will not provide Win2000 support anymore.

So they don't want to buy new licenses, but they have to.

> And if you already have Windows 7, that app will bring back the classic start menu.

Sorry, I missed, which application?

I finally found some application http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/ and it works perfectly fine.

So, now I don't have a reason to complain anymore, but I would like if Microsoft provided this option, just because I think Microsoft knows better how to make Classic Start menu and I believe its applications are more stable then the ones from independent developers.

Anyway, mentioned application (ClassicShell), for now, works perfectly fine without a single problem.

> It just sounds like a lot of people are resistant to change to me, but I will respect your opinion that the classic start menu is better, because everyone works in a different way.

Thanx man.

You have to be aware that resistance to change is one of the basic human behaviours. Sometimes, if you have to change something in the organisation, you have to put a lot of effort just to force the people to accept the change.

But sometimes people can be right? For example, I am using Win7 for a couple of months I still prefer old Classic menu.

Sorry, I tried my best: Tried to type the names of the programs, tried to get used to scrolling through new Start menu, but it is just not efficient enough for me.

I also hate this "Library concept" for storing documents as I think a lot of users will not be able to adapt to it. I just want to know exactly where my documents are. This just looks like preparation of users for "Cloud Computing" when all of us will give up of our privacy.

Thanx for your answers, and don't you think that so much time we spent in this discussion could be saved in case MS included old Classic Start menu? Do you really think it was so important to discard it from the installation?

I don' think so.

Have a nice life.

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  • 4 weeks later...
>

Thanx for your answers, and don't you think that so much time we spent in this discussion could be saved in case MS included old Classic Start menu? Do you really think it was so important to discard it from the installation?

I don' think so.

Have a nice life.

OK, I've read this debate on the classic desktop, rather than asking a lot of noob questions, got my answer more or less.

Still sitting on the fence re: buying W7.

Now what about colours, font preferences? I ask because umpety years ago I discovered by accident that my Plus! pack from

W'98 ran in 2000, didn't even have to install. Just plunked the folder into the Programs directory,didn't even create a short cut

BUT unchecked all but fonts, colours and icons, for 2000 handles icons on its' own but I wanted to translate most of my desktop from'98

to 2000 and W2kP has its' own sound event handling. In two steps I was there, ditto for the XP HTPC which came later. EDIT: In fact it was easier on

the XP HTPC as XP is set up for themes in its' desktop properties box.

Title bar, standard buttons and menues all as I had them in old W'98 in two easy steps. {clicking directly on Themes.exe}

Can I do the same in Windows 7?

I like my pointers red rather than white and the spinning disk rather than the hourglass, among other things.

As for auto logon, I'll do a search before asking but the main application would be in a home theatre pc, which you want to boot up to the desktop

should there be a power interruption of any kind, rather than the system hanging at a logon screen waiting for a user account ID and password.

EDIT: search done, no results pulled up

So does W7 allow auto logon, so there's no need for input on a machine that needs to go straight to desktop, so other things like EPGs and programme

schedulers can run? Yes, it is a noob question but one I need answered before slapping down the cash.

thanks.

Edited by Browncoat
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Therefore when first installing it and it gets to the log on dialogue, one can just hit enter like on previous versions of windows and from then on

it just boots into the desktop? Albeit that is the admin mode, normally very vulnerable for a workstation but not critical in said same application like

a Home Theatre PC or other single purpose machine where it would be offline most of the time except to sync the clock with a time server and to d/l

programme listings/schedules. Again I just ask because I've heard much of this UAC? User Account [control or command] and that you had to go through it

first.

Wish someone can point me to an URL that has a lot of W7 screen shots.

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Well, I've only known the UAC to NOT come up if you are using Windows 7 in Audit mode. If using the machine as the local admin (like I do) I find the UAC is not very intrusive at the default settings. Only if you are trying to launch things from any of the protected areas, such as Windows Folder or root of C.

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Well, I've only known the UAC to NOT come up if you are using Windows 7 in Audit mode. If using the machine as the local admin (like I do) I find the UAC is not very intrusive at the default settings. Only if you are trying to launch things from any of the protected areas, such as Windows Folder or root of C.

Hhmm...not familiar with Audit mode.

I'm balking at the cost, at first they weren't going to offer it in North America but this week's Staples.ca flyer, the starter box is now

offered at 89.00$ CDN. Still too expensive for the financially challenged like me and no guarantee that the XP compatibility tab[like in Vista,no

I'm not talking the VM either,which is only for Pro or higher] is included. Then there's that thorn in my side.......activation.

M$ just doesn't get it....if they wanted that, then each disc shouldn't be more than 20-25 bucks, then even the poor like me could afford multiple

copies, rather than being a member of that 'other' board that I can't mention here. ;):angel:sneaky:

Looks like then that W7 isn't ideal for Home theatre PCs......because the main requirement would be the need to reboot right to the desktop

in the event of a power interruption, even if using a UPS, as the UPS would drain during a prolonged outage, if no one is home, then if i understand you,

W7 won't go to desktop, unlike XP or 2000. Or am i wrong about that?

The most nagging ones are the blips that occur, you need to go to desktop so the scheduling portion of the HTPC capture can run or in the case of a recording

already in progress[and using an nLited 2000 or XP] you would only lose 20-40 seconds as the recording application re-launched itself.

Seems like it would be best to use an offlined W2kP[even after July 13] or XP[after 4/August/2014].

You only need to put a HTPC online to update the clock with NIST and to get scheduling info for the programme guide.

I once had a trojan on the 2000 box but it was like a dog chasing it's tail because it couldn't communicate with its' master

and was killed with the following week's Spybot S&D update and there was nothing to see on that HDD but TV shows.

Like i said in the other....I wish there were an URL with screenshots or a mini-movie tutorial so I can see all the features of W7 before I buy.

Both google and yahoo seem brain dead when I request this.

Now I'm running late......see ya later, unless the account gets purged again. :wacko:

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Hhmm...not familiar with Audit mode.

I'm balking at the cost, at first they weren't going to offer it in North America but this week's Staples.ca flyer, the starter box is now

offered at 89.00$ CDN. Still too expensive for the financially challenged like me and no guarantee that the XP compatibility tab[like in Vista,no

I'm not talking the VM either,which is only for Pro or higher] is included.

It is included on all Windows 7 versions, from starter on up.
Then there's that thorn in my side.......activation. M$ just doesn't get it....if they wanted that, then each disc shouldn't be more than 20-25 bucks, then even the poor like me could afford multiple copies, rather than being a member of that 'other' board that I can't mention here. ;)
Microsoft doesn't sell many copies of Windows in retail when compared to OEM sales with a PC or corporate / VL licensing. However, they spend literally billions in R&D, and so in all markets they sell retail they charge a price that they think the market can bear for cost recoup, just like any other company selling products in retail. I understand for a lot of people, software can be expensive at retail (regardless of who made it), just like any other retail purchase. If you've already got a copy of XP or Vista, you can use that without further cash outlay, or you can use a free OS like Linux. If you can't afford Windows 7, please don't pirate it - it makes software cost *more*, not less. You wouldn't steal a car from a seller if you couldn't afford one (I hope), so don't steal software. It just makes companies want to add *more* licensing restrictions and cost, not less.
Looks like then that W7 isn't ideal for Home theatre PCs......because the main requirement would be the need to reboot right to the desktop in the event of a power interruption, even if using a UPS, as the UPS would drain during a prolonged outage, if no one is home, then if i understand you, W7 won't go to desktop, unlike XP or 2000. Or am i wrong about that?
You can make Win7 go to the desktop, just like the others. Also, Windows 7 has quite a few very nice power saving features and is pretty good at working with a UPS - I have my own personal HTPC running Win7 and it sleeps when not in use, and during a recent power outage shut down properly when directed to by the UPS, and I had no issues with draining the UPS, etc.
The most nagging ones are the blips that occur, you need to go to desktop so the scheduling portion of the HTPC capture can run or in the case of a recording already in progress[and using an nLited 2000 or XP] you would only lose 20-40 seconds as the recording application re-launched itself. Seems like it would be best to use an offlined W2kP[even after July 13] or XP[after 4/August/2014]. You only need to put a HTPC online to update the clock with NIST and to get scheduling info for the programme guide. I once had a trojan on the 2000 box but it was like a dog chasing it's tail because it couldn't communicate with its' master and was killed with the following week's Spybot S&D update and there was nothing to see on that HDD but TV shows.
It sounds like you've got lots of experience with 2K and XP as HTPC boxes, and are comparing Win7 to those - don't, they're not even remotely similar (other than the app is still called Windows Media Center). It doesn't go to the desktop to update data (that's done as a scheduled task in a separate session you never see), for starters.
Like i said in the other....I wish there were an URL with screenshots or a mini-movie tutorial so I can see all the features of W7 before I buy. Both google and yahoo seem brain dead when I request this. Now I'm running late......see ya later, unless the account gets purged again. :wacko:
I'm not advocating piracy, but if you were to install Windows 7 Ultimate or Home Premium from a disc you borrowed from a colleague, you'd have 30 days to decide whether you wanted to pay for a copy, or not. A fully functional 30 day trial, basically, is probably the best option if you want to try it out.
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OK, I buggered the formatting but I'm late for other appointments it took too long to type this.

>>>Microsoft doesn't sell many copies of Windows in retail when compared to OEM sales with a PC or corporate / VL licensing. However, they spend literally billions in R&D, and so in all markets they sell retail they charge a price that they think the market can bear for cost recoup, just like any other company selling products in retail. I understand for a lot of people, software can be expensive at retail (regardless of who made it), just like any other retail purchase. If you've already got a copy of XP or Vista, you can use that without further cash outlay, or you can use a free OS like Linux. If you can't afford Windows 7, please don't pirate it - it makes software cost *more*, not less. You wouldn't steal a car from a seller if you couldn't afford one (I hope), so don't steal software. It just makes companies want to add *more* licensing restrictions and cost, not less.

I get your point here, though for home use there should be leeway for a legit owner to apply it to each machine owned, other than the Home Premium Family Pack [200$ CDN] limited to three machines.

>>>You can make Win7 go to the desktop, just like the others. Also, Windows 7 has quite a few very nice power saving features and is pretty good at working with a UPS - I have my own personal HTPC running Win7 and it sleeps when not in use, and during a recent power outage shut down properly when directed to by the UPS, and I had no issues with draining the UPS, etc.

OK

I was willing to admit here that I could be wrong, not knowing the OS.

>>>It sounds like you've got lots of experience with 2K and XP as HTPC boxes, and are comparing Win7 to those - don't, they're not even remotely similar (other than the app is still called Windows Media Center). It doesn't go to the desktop to update data (that's done as a scheduled task in a separate session you never see), for starters.

Yep, but was really a noob at it in 2004 but on an acquaintance's machine in 2005 I didn't think too much of MCE, later he too admitted it was a dog of an OS and better just to use XP Home with the apps that came with the capture/tuner cards or third party s/w.

Like i said in the other....I wish there were an URL with screenshots or a mini-movie tutorial so I can see all the features of W7 before I buy. Both google and yahoo seem brain dead when I request this.

>>>I'm not advocating piracy, but if you were to install Windows 7 Ultimate or Home Premium from a disc you borrowed from a colleague, you'd have 30 days to decide whether you wanted to pay for a copy, or not. A fully functional 30 day trial, basically, is probably the best option if you want to try it out.

I'm not advocating piracy either but there has to be a better solution than the Home Premium Family Pack, restricted to three machines, there should be leeway for a home user to install on each computer they own. You've just sold me on it in your first point and i found a deal where both the 32 and 64 Ultimate are offered with the purchase of a 1TB drive but Starter may be suitable just for online, then reboot back to XP pro or W2kP for offline work. OR get that Ultimate deal, plop it on this one year old Asus workstation and keep using my no-activation VLK NFR SP4 2000 CD for offline single use applications.

Now here's a tale...on the eMachine I bought from Tigerdirect.ca (the only unit I never built,either from bits thrown together or a kit) it came with XP Home but had I known that you no longer get a proper OS cd, just those dumb re-install disks, I never would have ordered it. So I used my Spotmau utility disk to kill the hidden partition and a local shop got me the OEM kit that i couldn't find from MS downloads, so with the sticker on the box, I can re-install if ever needed. I was curious about the various XP updates over the years, even IE8 I let the machine [manually,with auto update off] get them on Sundays but now the XP machine is almost as slow in a reboot as the Asus running W2kP, so that sucker needs a housecleaning because it's probably bogged down with crap even after using Easycleaner 2.0 from Toniarts. Though if W7 is as great as you and others say, I'd like to skip buying XP and just jump to W7 for all my computers, another way to speed up is to substitute a mechanical boot drive with a CF or SD to IDE/SATA adapter(s), keeping the big ones for data but the listed requirements for W7 is 16GB. Again a chunk of change when compared to getting a used, working 40gig HDD to use for booting. Then I'll still have the 2000 pro CD I can give the Vorck treatment to in case I only can install the version of W7 I get on the main [This Asus] workstation.

So, from lurking and asking I've learned

A. that Office '97 Pro will run on W7 [subsequently Office 2000+2007compatability pack and the FileFormatConverters.exe]

B. therefore other legacy software will too

C. even the cheapest version, Starter has the XP compatibility tab, problems solved.

So there's no more objections to getting W7, other than cost.

Thanks everybody, on this and the other threads, I'm going to save this and your responses in a notepad/wordpad file

so i don't lose them.

:yes:

Edited by Browncoat
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Incorrect - 7 was the first to allow multiple installs (and even then, it was just 3 keys purchased under one bar code/sku, it wasn't really "multiple use"). Older Office versions allowed this sort of thing with certain volume licensing agreements under home-use programs, but it was never retail either.

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iirc, Windows XP and Vista allowed you to install on up to 3 computers even if you didn't have the Family Pack. Microsoft took away this option in Windows 7 for some reason.
Incorrect - 7 was the first to allow multiple installs (and even then, it was just 3 keys purchased under one bar code/sku, it wasn't really "multiple use"). Older Office versions allowed this sort of thing with certain volume licensing agreements under home-use programs, but it was never retail either.

$$$$ for ol' Billy

3 keys under the family pack?

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